Played Hanako and Lilly routes. Some questions for you guys.

[Keneshiro]

1) The Lilly route didn’t really affect me as much as Hanako’s. Perhaps due to the fact that I went for Hanako first. However, I felt that Lilly’s route had more ‘stuff’ happening as compared to Hanako. What do you guys think?
2) I didn’t really understand the difference between the Hanako-Hisao relationship and the Lilly-Hisao relationship. Anyone mind clarifying?
3) In Lilly’s route, Hanako showed more change in herself as compared to her own route. Does that mean Hisao was actually a hindrance to Hanako changing for the better?
4) ‘A normal adolescent sex drive’ ಠ_ಠ You’re horny. Admit it.
5) Does someone mind explaining the whole dynamics of the relationship? I'm hopelessly confused.

EDIT:
Alright, I guess I should clarify a bit eh?
For the first questions, I just felt that the Hanako route was a bit incomplete as compared to Lilly's. I just thought that the ending for Lilly was like dessert for the meal while Hanako's ended with the main meal.
Question 2/5 I guess I kinda combined those two together. My bad. I felt that in both relationships, Hisao NEEDED the girls as support, in a way, and likewise for the girls, albeit in different ways. I'm rather confused by Hisao's ramblings so I am having trouble interpretting the routes. Could ou guys tell me how did each of the girls see Hisao initially and how did that change? And vice versa for Hisao to the girls.
Question 3 By the end of the Hanako route, I felt that Hanako didn't really change much, aside from the fact of opening up to Hisao. However, since the game just ended there, I assume that she still has trouble mixing with others. In Lilly's route, by taking Lilly away from Hanako, Hanako was sort of forced to branch out and make new friends. What do you gus think?
Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

[Xanatos]

1) The Lilly route didn’t really affect me as much as Hanako’s. Perhaps due to the fact that I went for Hanako first. However, I felt that Lilly’s route had more ‘stuff’ happening as compared to Hanako. What do you guys think?
2) I didn’t really understand the difference between the Hanako-Hisao relationship and the Lilly-Hisao relationship. Anyone mind clarifying?
3) In Lilly’s route, Hanako showed more change in herself as compared to her own route. Does that mean Hisao was actually a hindrance to Hanako changing for the better?
4) ‘A normal adolescent sex drive’ ಠ_ಠ You’re horny. Admit it.
5) Does someone mind explaining the whole dynamics of the relationship? I'm hopelessly confused.

1) I liked Lilly's more. It didn't really seem to have more though.

2) The difference is they're different people with different problems and the relationships develop in different ways. What do you mean?

3) No. It's arguable that either even had more change than the other. It's a matter of perspective and circumstance. With Lilly's route, Hanako doesn't have to undergo quite as much internal turmoil in addition to/because of the focus being off of her, so her changes may seem more easy or prevalent. Plus with her giving Hisao/Lilly alone time, she'd have to find things to do, hence the clubs and travel plans. With her own route, most of the time is spent just breaking through her various complexes and traumas with the more prevalent change hinted to manifest post-ending. Same change either way, we just see more of it in Lilly's arc due to circumstances and time (Lilly's is longer). She definitely changes for the better in either route. It's just the perspective from Lilly's that makes it more obvious. And Hisao clearly aids that change in both routes. I doubt she'd progress so much in either without him.

4) Okay. I'm horny. In my defense, Lilly is hot.

5) Which one?

[theartificial]

3) During Lilly's route, Hanako didn't have to deal with the possibility of a relationship, which I'm sure she isn't sure of how to go about it which then causes her conflicts. Also Hisao is having more time with Lilly so Hanako is left to her own accord therefore she'd have to make new friends and fend for herself.

That's my reason for this.
I had problems wording this so that it would sound correct. The first sentence was re-worded 3-4 times.

[Helbereth]

Lilly's route takes place over several months, whereas the Hanako route is only about 5-6 weeks in length - ending shortly after her birthday on July 10th, before Lilly even comes back from Scotland, while the story begins around June 4th.

Being exposed to Hisao through Lilly as a second, confidence-boosting friend in the Lilly path, she has similar experiences with him, even though they're never romantically involved; and a lot more time to develop. I'm sure if the Hanako tale continued past the point where it ends, she would have developed in much the same way as seen in Lilly's route -- perhaps even faster having Hisao as a dedicated love interest.

So far as the relationship dynamic is concerned, I'm not sure what's confusing. While Lilly and Hanako's relationship is largely the same in both routes (it's kind of a mother-daughter relationship that slowly develops into a more sisterly dynamic), there are clear differences in how things play out depending on which one is the love interest. I really don't know what could have been confusing.

[Megumeru]

1) The Lilly route didn’t really affect me as much as Hanako’s. Perhaps due to the fact that I went for Hanako first. However, I felt that Lilly’s route had more ‘stuff’ happening as compared to Hanako. What do you guys think?
2) I didn’t really understand the difference between the Hanako-Hisao relationship and the Lilly-Hisao relationship. Anyone mind clarifying?
3) In Lilly’s route, Hanako showed more change in herself as compared to her own route. Does that mean Hisao was actually a hindrance to Hanako changing for the better?
4) ‘A normal adolescent sex drive’ ಠ_ಠ You’re horny. Admit it.
5) Does someone mind explaining the whole dynamics of the relationship? I'm hopelessly confused.

1) Though I like Shizune's more (surprise?), I think I can see where you're going. Time-canon wise, Lilly's route stretches longer than Hanako's so it does contain more 'stuff' happening.
2) Hanako-Hisao's relationship is about acceptance, where the two of them struggles to overcome their disability as they are (Hanako with the scar and her past, Hisao with his entire ordeal). Lilly and Hisao's relationship are more into escapism--but that's just my 2 cents.
3) Not exactly a hindrance, but considering his white-knight attitude in her route it became one.
4) Bro, I support your statement. You're not the only one with ಠ_ಠ when it happened.
5) Dynamics...isn't that the same as your no. 2 question? In Hanako's route, Hisao tries to accept his situation by white-knighting Hanako (the I-am-better-than-you-kinda'-way) to which she--with her timidness considered pre-fus ro dah--accept it just as it is and revel on it. Towards the later, both came to an understanding of themselves and see that the best way to overcome it is to accept it rather than dwell on it. On Lilly and Hanako's route, I find it more into escapism than 'conflict/solution', with Hisao finding a way to escape from his current predicament/stress of coping in Lilly and her 'aura' (it is a solution as well, mind you. Ignorance is bliss), while she takes Hisao just the same to forget about her problems back in Scotland and what is to come.

So yes, I think I can see why you feel more in Hanako's route.

[Keneshiro]

Alright, I guess I should clarify a bit eh?
For the first questions, I just felt that the Hanako route was a bit incomplete as compared to Lilly's. I just thought that the ending for Lilly was like dessert for the meal while Hanako's ended with the main meal.
Question 2/5 I guess I kinda combined those two together. My bad. I felt that in both relationships, Hisao NEEDED the girls as support, in a way, and likewise for the girls, albeit in different ways. I'm rather confused by Hisao's ramblings so I am having trouble interpretting the routes. Could ou guys tell me how did each of the girls see Hisao initially and how did that change? And vice versa for Hisao to the girls.
Question 3 By the end of the Hanako route, I felt that Hanako didn't really change much, aside from the fact of opening up to Hisao. However, since the game just ended there, I assume that she still has trouble mixing with others. In Lilly's route, by taking Lilly away from Hanako, Hanako was sort of forced to branch out and make new friends. What do you gus think?
Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

[Megumeru]

Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

YES!!! YEEEESSSS!!!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks it's over-the-top.

[Snow_Storm]

3. Well, when your crush decides he'll gonna fuck and date your best friend and they spend more time with each other than you (to avoid yourself being the third wheel), you tend to go solo and try to turn your focus on other things and growing up, not trying to rely on your old friends.

4. She's horny. Let's keep it real.

[Oddball]

For the first questions, I just felt that the Hanako route was a bit incomplete as compared to Lilly's.

Part of that is due to how their stories went. Lilly's route establishes a realtionship and then has the conflict arrive afterwards.

Hnako's route the whole conflict is trying to establish the realtionship.

Question 2/5 I guess I kinda combined those two together. My bad. I felt that in both relationships, Hisao NEEDED the girls as support, in a way, and likewise for the girls, albeit in different ways. I'm rather confused by Hisao's ramblings so I am having trouble interpretting the routes.

This is very true and something lost of people miss. Hisao wasn't just helping the girls with their problems, they were helping him in their own ways.

Could ou guys tell me how did each of the girls see Hisao initially and how did that change?

I think they all basicaly see him the same way. He's a confused, somewhat sad guy that feels out of place. He's just gone though a major life changing event and doesn't know how to handle it. How THEY try to help him out is where the difference lies. ... except maybe for Rin. There is seems more like he clinging to her for something to latch onto and she has no idea what to do about that.

Question 3 By the end of the Hanako route, I felt that Hanako didn't really change much, aside from the fact of opening up to Hisao. However, since the game just ended there, I assume that she still has trouble mixing with others. In Lilly's route, by taking Lilly away from Hanako, Hanako was sort of forced to branch out and make new friends. What do you gus think?

At the start of Act 1, Hanako had difficulties going to the convinced store after school without help. By the end of her route, he was able to take a bus to the city in broad daylight, and call Hisao up asking him to meet her there. She was even able to be able to show public displays of affection. She's gotten a LOT stronger by the end, but her trauma runs pretty deep so she's not going to change overnight.

Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

Yes really.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks it's over-the-top.

Your favorite girl likes tying people up and surprising them with sex. You don't get to judge what's over the top.

[newnar]

3. You'd realize Lilly's route covers way more time compared to Hanako's. That may be the reason why you're not seeing it, but the way I see it, she develops more in her own route.

[Pyramid Head]

Okay in regards to Hanako changing more in the Lilly arc...
Yes. You're absolutely right. And do you want to know why that happens?
The Lily arc expands a few months past the end of the Hanako arc, which ends before Lilly even gets back from Scotland. OF COURSE Hanako changes more, more time elapses!

[Keneshiro]

Lilly's route takes place over several months, whereas the Hanako route is only about 5-6 weeks in length - ending shortly after her birthday on July 10th, before Lilly even comes back from Scotland, while the story begins around June 4th.

Being exposed to Hisao through Lilly as a second, confidence-boosting friend in the Lilly path, she has similar experiences with him, even though they're never romantically involved; and a lot more time to develop. I'm sure if the Hanako tale continued past the point where it ends, she would have developed in much the same way as seen in Lilly's route -- perhaps even faster having Hisao as a dedicated love interest.

So far as the relationship dynamic is concerned, I'm not sure what's confusing. While Lilly and Hanako's relationship is largely the same in both routes (it's kind of a mother-daughter relationship that slowly develops into a more sisterly dynamic), there are clear differences in how things play out depending on which one is the love interest. I really don't know what could have been confusing.

I was a bit more confused regarding the relationship, or to be more exact, the reason behind said relationship between Hisao and either of the girls. Do you mind explaining that bit to me? I'm hopeless with these things.

Question 3 By the end of the Hanako route, I felt that Hanako didn't really change much, aside from the fact of opening up to Hisao. However, since the game just ended there, I assume that she still has trouble mixing with others. In Lilly's route, by taking Lilly away from Hanako, Hanako was sort of forced to branch out and make new friends. What do you gus think?

At the start of Act 1, Hanako had difficulties going to the convinced store after school without help. By the end of her route, he was able to take a bus to the city in broad daylight, and call Hisao up asking him to meet her there. She was even able to be able to show public displays of affection. She's gotten a LOT stronger by the end, but her trauma runs pretty deep so she's not going to change overnight.

I guess you make a valid point. But by the end of Lilly's route, I felt that Hanako had moved further away from Hisao and Lilly. It's just an impression I was getting, but what do you think?

Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

Yes really.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks it's over-the-top.

Your favorite girl likes tying people up and surprising them with sex. You don't get to judge what's over the top.

Heh. I should be so lucky. however, I felt that it was kinda a shock. it was like a game of playing with a blindfold and you take it off and she's masturbating, and then sex. What a drive.

[Oddball]

I guess you make a valid point. But by the end of Lilly's route, I felt that Hanako had moved further away from Hisao and Lilly. It's just an impression I was getting, but what do you think?

Hanako seems to define much of her worth by ho useful she is to people. I don't think she's moved away from them as much as she's trying to give them some space and time alone. She cares deeply about both of them and wants them to be happy, so she's letting them spend time together without her and trying her hardest to happy (or at least able to function) without them so that they don't have to spend time worrying about her. The idea that she's found other friends is less important to her than the fact that she's not being a burden to the ones she already had.

[Guest Poster]

For the first questions, I just felt that the Hanako route was a bit incomplete as compared to Lilly's.

Like people said, Lilly and Hisao start dating just past halfway through the arc. Hanako and Hisao start a relationship at the very end. So the stories play out and end at different points. Nobody should be surprised Lilly is easier to approach than Hanako. That said, there's plenty of Hanako epilogues people came up with in the fanfic forum for possible ways things played out after that confession in the park. (my own included...shameless plug)

Question 2/5 I guess I kinda combined those two together. My bad. I felt that in both relationships, Hisao NEEDED the girls as support, in a way, and likewise for the girls, albeit in different ways. I'm rather confused by Hisao's ramblings so I am having trouble interpretting the routes.

Like people said, Hisao is a guy still dealing with the massive changes in his life and he has trouble adapting to his new environment. In both routes, Hisao befriends Lilly and latches onto her as a pillar of motherly support...a role that Lilly (due to her personality) relishes in and somewhat encourages. During their first meeting, Hisao scares off Hanako, but since both of them hang out with (and somewhat depend on) Lilly, they still get to hang out together.

In Lilly's route, Hisao's dependancy on Lilly remains, but through kindness his bond with her grows and during a moment of weakness on Lilly's part, they discover their mutual attraction and start going out. Even then, Hisao keeps looking up to Lilly as that unwavering pillar of support and that comes back to bite him when she finds herself grappling with an issue she can't deal with on her own and he fails to challenge her decision and help her carry her burden. Eventually, he realizes this and manages to reach out to her and help her change her mind on a decision that would have made her unhappy. Moral Hisao learns: Lilly's not always as strong as she seems and it's okay to let her rely on him when she needs his support just like she's been supporting him. True lovers are equals.

In Hanako's route, in addition to his dependance on Lilly, he also develops a co-dependant relationship with Hanako. His eagerness to support Hanako turns into somewhat of an obsession to protect her, something she takes notice of and is NOT happy about, but this protective attitude is very much a smokescreen. Hisao is essentially using Hanako as a distraction to avoid having to deal with his own insecurities. A phone conversation with Lilly makes Hisao do some self-reflection and he decides to tone down the obsessive worrying and focus more on his own life. Hanako, unaware of Hisao's self-reflective moment, notices him taking a step back and misinterpretes it as Hisao having given up on her. They have that awkward night, their friendship essentially becomes too awkward to continue so the two decide to be open to each other about their feelings in an attempt to salvage things and it works out since both of them loved the other. Moral Hisao learns: Hanako's not always as weak as she seems and it's okay to rely on her for support just like she's been relying on him. True lovers are equals.

As you can see, the two routes (like the two girls) mirror each other.

Could ou guys tell me how did each of the girls see Hisao initially and how did that change? And vice versa for Hisao to the girls.
Question 3 By the end of the Hanako route, I felt that Hanako didn't really change much, aside from the fact of opening up to Hisao. However, since the game just ended there, I assume that she still has trouble mixing with others. In Lilly's route, by taking Lilly away from Hanako, Hanako was sort of forced to branch out and make new friends. What do you gus think?

Lilly initially "sees" Hisao as simply a confused and lost fellow-student who's having trouble finding his place and who's in need of support...so true to her extremely nurturing nature she takes him under her wing. In her own route, she quickly grows an appreciation for his kind and gentle personality and after being faced with almost losing him to a heart flutter, she blurts out her feelings. Their relationship still retains a subtle caretaker/caretakee touch even after they start dating with Lilly taking most of the initiatives and Hisao just going along with them. When faced with her parents' summoning, she can't stand up to them and Hisao secretly resents her decision but still goes along with it because that's how things have always been. It later dawns on him that Lilly was only going away for other people's sake and after nearly killing himself he manages to help Lilly make a decision based on what she herself wants.

During their first meeting, Hanako sees Hisao as just a scary classmate, but she very quickly comes to see him as different from most people. Hanako's route is the shortest time-span-wise and at the end Hanako admits she's yearned for Hisao's admission of love for a very long time, so it's not unlikely Hanako developed a crush on Hisao very soon after meeting him. (maybe even as early as the festival or their time in the library where she thanks him for hanging out with her) Of course, Hanako's way too shy to confess. Hisao, for his part, is at first puzzled by Hanako's behavior but ultimately realizes that he likes her and starts planning to ask her out. Around that point, Hanako has that panic attack and Hisao (who realizes that Hanako does have deeper issues than mere shyness) dumps her into the friend zone because he's worried that he'll scare her off if he were to make a move on her. Hanako suspects this and it frustrates her...she's unaware of his attraction towards her and believes he only sees her as a child who needs protecting. This emotional hide-and-seek game continues until the two sleep together at which point they're forced to come clean about their feelings and they realize they both love the other and since they're both very similar in several ways, they realize they both need someone else for support to grow and decide to be that supporting person for the other.

As others mentioned, Lilly's path takes longer so Hanako gets more time to develop. Also, since Lilly's route is about Lilly, Hanako's deeper problems don't come up. Objectively speaking, Hanako makes more progress in her own route if you put the two side by side and cut off Lilly's route at the point where Hanako's route ends. In her own route, Hanako faces some inner demons she never ends up confronting in Lilly's route, so I believe she's still better off in her own route. She did change subtly over the course, as Oddball mentioned...Hanako's and Hisao's last outing into the city was something she wouldn't have been able to do at the start of Act 1. Also, KS remains somewhat realistic and acknowledges that Hanako's anxieties aren't going to vanish overnight, even with a boyfriend. (nor with a club to participate in, for that matter)

Question 4: *sigh* one at night, then in the tub. Then blindfolded. Really now?

What did you expect. Lilly's a somewhat repressed catholic schoolgirl who's spent middle school on an all-girl's school and who easily gets hooked on pleasurable things. (caffeïne, wine...)

[theartificial]

What did you expect. Lilly's a somewhat repressed catholic schoolgirl who's spent middle school on an all-girl's school and who easily gets hooked on pleasurable things. (caffeïne, wine...)

I burst out laughing at this!