Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by HoneyBakedHam » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:11 pm

I was wondering that, too.

Well, that and what is Carmilla, but I have a feeling it's something that's best to be blissfully ignorant of.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by TheHivemind » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:21 pm

HoneyBakedHam wrote:I was wondering that, too.

Well, that and what is Carmilla, but I have a feeling it's something that's best to be blissfully ignorant of.
Carmilla did the stuff Dracula did 26 years later, except it wasn't quite as good as Dracula in execution (plus it featured a blatantly lesbian courtship (albeit a vampire lesbian courtship that would've left the human participant dead, which is heavily painted as being SINFUL AND EVIL AND WRONG because this was the Victorians doing it) as its central conflict which probably explains why it never rose to the same sort of prominence Dracula did). It's been adapted a lot, most recently (I think) into a webseries that runs on YouTube (although I've never watched it so I couldn't tell you if it happens to lean more heavily into romance or not).

The point is, Carmilla was a horror story first and a tale of romance second--much in the way this is a story about Iwanako coming to grips with a whole bunch of stuff first, it just happens to have romance in it, but the romance is not the point of focus.

Which is why I've found it interesting, personally. Straight (ha!) romance isn't generally that interesting. This, on the other hand, has been fascinating from the jump as a careful deconstruction of everything KS represents. Square peg in a round hole and all that. Poor Iwanako, you're in a setting that was never meant for you and yet you've got to have a story anyway. Delightful.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by slartibartfast » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:13 pm

Whoa, take it easy with the parentheses, you're making my head hurt.
Leaty wrote:My headcanon of bhtooefr's headcanon is that it's all in continuity with Cormac McCarthy's The Road and nothing in the VN matters because everybody's gonna die in, like, a year.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Blank Mage » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:30 pm

slartibartfast wrote:Whoa, take it easy with the parentheses, you're making my head hurt.
Clearly, you haven't met me. (Also, hi, I'm Blank Mage.)
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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by HoneyBakedHam » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:37 pm

TheHivemind wrote:
HoneyBakedHam wrote:I was wondering that, too.

Well, that and what is Carmilla, but I have a feeling it's something that's best to be blissfully ignorant of.
Carmilla did the stuff Dracula did 26 years later, except it wasn't quite as good as Dracula in execution (plus it featured a blatantly lesbian courtship (albeit a vampire lesbian courtship that would've left the human participant dead, which is heavily painted as being SINFUL AND EVIL AND WRONG because this was the Victorians doing it) as its central conflict which probably explains why it never rose to the same sort of prominence Dracula did). It's been adapted a lot, most recently (I think) into a webseries that runs on YouTube (although I've never watched it so I couldn't tell you if it happens to lean more heavily into romance or not).

The point is, Carmilla was a horror story first and a tale of romance second--much in the way this is a story about Iwanako coming to grips with a whole bunch of stuff first, it just happens to have romance in it, but the romance is not the point of focus.

Which is why I've found it interesting, personally. Straight (ha!) romance isn't generally that interesting. This, on the other hand, has been fascinating from the jump as a careful deconstruction of everything KS represents. Square peg in a round hole and all that. Poor Iwanako, you're in a setting that was never meant for you and yet you've got to have a story anyway. Delightful.
Eh, still sounds better than Twilight (as far as vampire stories go).

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by slartibartfast » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:17 am

TheHivemind wrote:Straight (ha!) romance isn't generally that interesting.
Don't make me call the pun police on you. :wink:
HoneyBakedHam wrote:Eh, still sounds better than Twilight (as far as vampire stories go).
:mrgreen:
Blank Mage wrote:Clearly, you haven't met me. (Also, hi, I'm Blank Mage.)
Nice to meet you too. (I've read a bunch of your posts on this thread, so I already know you a little bit.)
Leaty wrote:My headcanon of bhtooefr's headcanon is that it's all in continuity with Cormac McCarthy's The Road and nothing in the VN matters because everybody's gonna die in, like, a year.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Leaty » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:01 pm

My thinking is like this:

IRL there's actually this girl I'm kind of seeing right now. It's a new thing and I don't know where it's going, if anywhere—these things tend to fizzle out for me, because I'm positively awful—but we're mutually interested and that's pretty cool.

But okay. Look at the sentence I just wrote. It's nuanced, right? There are complexities being expressed. My relationship with this other girl is weird and I don't know where I stand and there's a lot of important exterior context I haven't even brought up. Because that's how these things go. Life is not simple. There are ambiguities and starts and stops and sometimes things don't actually go anywhere.

So imagine how diminishing it would feel to me if somebody pointed to myself and this other girl and said "Lawlololol, you two are a yuri pairing!"

Like, y'all understand? I'm a queer woman. That's not, like, some character I roleplay on these boards for shits and giggles. That's my actual life, that I go out and live (albeit really badly). I get that my audience here is primarily male and certainly I love entertaining people with my writing, but it's also not my fucking job, nor my aspiration, to cream their twinkies. It's no secret that I draw from a lot of my personal experience in my writing, so why the fuck would any story penned by me devolve into some shallow, excessively physically intimate romance? Especially in the first act of my story. Remind me again: how many sex scenes did 4LS include in Act One of KS? My memory isn't fantastic but I'm pretty sure it was a number between one and negative-one.

There is female-female romance in my story. I guarantee it, if that's what it takes to keep people reading. But I'm writing it on my terms. This isn't a shipping fic or a femslash fic or whatever other label people use to pigeonhole stories. (It is a divergence fic, admittedly, but that's a whole other can of worms). This is a dramatic story with a romantic subgenre. It'd be great if people would just take that as it is without asking me—with implicit impatience—"where da yuri at."

Also, Carmilla (both the web series and the classic novella) is fantastic and everyone should check it out.

EDIT: It also bears mentioning that I wrote a story here that was positively dripping with homoromantic subtext and literally nobody caught on without my walking them through it.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by SolitudeFreak » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:46 pm

Leaty wrote:There is female-female romance in my story. I guarantee it, if that's what it takes to keep people reading.
Yeah, definitely just tell the story you want to tell. I'm guessing a lot of your readers don't pick most of the content they read or watch based solely on 'lol how much yuri/fanservice is there?' I certainly don't.

I was told about this story by a friend who said it was a really cool idea, and what I've read so far has been great. I'll follow it based on that precedent.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by slartibartfast » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:02 pm

Leaty wrote:EDIT: It also bears mentioning that I wrote a story here that was positively dripping with homoromantic subtext and literally nobody caught on without my walking them through it.
It's not particularly subtle in this story either. I'm a bit surprised that Iwanako is still oblivious to her own sexuality.
Leaty wrote:My headcanon of bhtooefr's headcanon is that it's all in continuity with Cormac McCarthy's The Road and nothing in the VN matters because everybody's gonna die in, like, a year.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Alpacalypse » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:05 pm

I came to this story because it had an interesting concept. I stayed because the writing was/is fantastic and an amazing job has been done conveying the whole "Hisao-shaped hole" idea of Iwanako being completely out of place somewhere that was designed for a different character.
I didn't even know that there would be pairings of any sort when I arrived here, so that it's going to be a relationship between two girls is neither here nor there for me. I'm just waiting for more stuff like Bathory in Her Castle (because that chapter was fucking awesome).

I've never understood how relationships of any sort work, anyhow. I just kind of blunder through them until they either stick or fizzle out.

I'll stop rambling now. :oops:
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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by brythain » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:21 pm

Alpacalypse wrote:I came to this story because it had an interesting concept. I stayed because the writing was/is fantastic and an amazing job has been done conveying the whole "Hisao-shaped hole" idea of Iwanako being completely out of place somewhere that was designed for a different character.
I completely agree. Having read most of what's on offer, I haven't found Leaty's kind of wordsmithing to have been sustained consistently anywhere else in this forum, and MTtB has been one of the works that have anchored me to this place. I'm interested, perhaps even invested in Iwanako as a person, and whatever comes with that. Yeah, I'm a fan. Sorry.
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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by slartibartfast » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:08 pm

Totally changing the subject here, but I have two quick questions about the last chapter that I meant to ask a long time ago:

1. The chapter title -- am I right in thinking that this is a reference to a certain song?
2. The chapter description -- what on earth does this have to do with the Byford Dolphin?
Leaty wrote:My headcanon of bhtooefr's headcanon is that it's all in continuity with Cormac McCarthy's The Road and nothing in the VN matters because everybody's gonna die in, like, a year.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Leaty » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:22 pm

slartibartfast wrote:It's not particularly subtle in this story either.
Fucking thank you.
slartibartfast wrote:1. The chapter title -- am I right in thinking that this is a reference to a certain song?
The Coldplay song was my inspiration, because it was all over the fucking radio, but I wouldn't have used it if "sky full of stars" wasn't a phrase you could theoretically hear anywhere.
slartibartfast wrote:2. The chapter description -- what on earth does this have to do with the Byford Dolphin?
Nothing, other than Iwanako's musing that "explosive decompression" would have been a more sensitive thing to say than "spontaneous combustion". The chapter taglines aren't always supposed to make a whole lot of sense.

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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:34 pm

Remind me again: how many sex scenes did 4LS include in Act One of KS? My memory isn't fantastic but I'm pretty sure it was a number between one and negative-one.
Yes. And it was an integer.
So imagine how diminishing it would feel to me if somebody pointed to myself and this other girl and said "Lawlololol, you two are a yuri pairing!"
Whoa - do people really do that? I mean Yuri is a term for a genre of anime and manga. I could undersand if somebody uses it to categorize other kinds of literature - or maybe even other media - but the thought that someone could use the term in real life didn't even occur to me before now. I mean, I don't go around calling people "SciFi" because they work at NASA or "Mystery" because they're policemen^^°

Also, just because a story is categorized as "yuri" I wouldn'd neccessarily expect it to contain adult material. Wikipedia has the following definition of yuri:
As of 2009, the term yuri is used in Japan to mean the depiction of attraction between women (whether sexual or romantic; explicit or implied) in manga, anime, and related entertainment media, as well as the genre of stories primarily dealing with this content.
...and that meshes quite well with how I use the term and how I usually see it used.

As for whether or not this story should contain adult material, that is of course entirely up to you. Personally I tend to prefer stories without it, since frankly, 90% of the stories that contain h-scenes are cringeworthy. In your case I will continue to read the story either way.
EDIT: It also bears mentioning that I wrote a story here that was positively dripping with homoromantic subtext and literally nobody caught on without my walking them through it.
Indeed. The feedback in the thread after my question was quite sparse... I guess I'll follow up there.
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Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}

Post by Reese8 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:41 pm

@Leaty:
Well, even with the complexities, good luck. :)

I'm fine with the way the story's been going, by the way, and while I don't think I know enough to understand why that label is particularly offensive to you, I've no problem with you not wanting it used.
...Though I am now wondering how one writes a negative number of sex scenes.

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