Ask!

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Kariya312
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Re: Ask!

Post by Kariya312 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:23 pm

Aura wrote:Yeah, why not?

The question of accuracy concerns what you think reality is. Some numbers I pull out of my ass? The images our artists drew that can't be measured? What if they are conflicting? The numbers on the website weren't very deeply thought about and used to be literally randomized, except for heights, so it's arguable whether they have any meaning at all. They're the best you'll ever get though, so use them for the chart.
Wouldn't it make more sense to go off of artwork instead of numbers that exist outside of the VN? I know the artwork isn't exactly consistent between the events and the sprites, but the sprites seem like a more reliable reference because they're what the reader would be exposed to the most and probably what had the most input from the whole team. Trying to draw something like that by the numbers would just create confusion for anyone who didn't go and look them up on the website because it lists things like Misha having a smaller bust than Lilly, which is just plain wrong if you've taken a single look at the artwork. Don't you think it would be better to be done relatively, by proportions or whatever, instead of trying to follow numbers that you just admitted can't even be considered believable in the first place?

EDIT: Also, who would you say had the most experience when starting work on the novel? Were there certain devs who were more savvy and pulled more of the overall weight, so to speak?

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:09 pm

You'll have to do some guesswork either way, so I feel it's a wash whether you use numbers or the game artwork (disclaimer: I'm not a bust chart enthusiast)

Most people had practical experience about stuff that was relevant to their role in 4LS in one way or another, but nobody had any real experience about making VNs. The older members were more experienced (in a general sense) than the younger just by virtue of age. The amount of weight pulled was totally independent of any previous experience though, and more related to motivation and such. I'd say Blue123, Silentcook and kamifish probably had the best skillsets when coming in.
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Kariya312
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Re: Ask!

Post by Kariya312 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:18 pm

Aura wrote:You'll have to do some guesswork either way, so I feel it's a wash whether you use numbers or the game artwork (disclaimer: I'm not a bust chart enthusiast)

Some people had practical experience about stuff that was relevant to their role in 4LS in one way or another, but nobody had any real experience about making VNs. The older members were more experienced (in a general sense) than the younger just by virtue of age. The amount of weight pulled was totally independent of any previous experience though, and more related to motivation and such. I'd say Blue123, Silentcook and kamifish probably had the best skillsets when coming in.
So... it doesn't matter either way? Crap, I had plans to do my own someday when I was a better artist.

That sounds about right, going by past experiences with my own teams. Would you say there was a lot of work that got thrown out due to the artist or writer's increase in ability [as the development cycle went on], and not necessarily because the concepts were bad?

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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:15 pm

It doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to someone.

A ton of material got scrapped, but I don't think the primary reason ever was just someone improving over time, rather the standards rising was often the most immediate reason (which, granted, is very closely related)
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:30 pm

We scrapped a fair amount, although it is more accurate to say that we went back and reworked existing assets more than outright scrapping--I tend to say we scrapped Emi's path on several occasions, but apart from three or four scenes (including a TIMESKIP EPILOGUE for her bad end, if I remember properly) that were taken out and never returned, the bones of a given scene remained more or less consistent throughout--which is why there are hints of a larger connection between Emi and Misha, chatter about a book thief, and a few other things which don't really get resolved (does Kenji still give Hisao his journal and give instructions to send it to the press? I haven't played through in a solid year at least so I don't recall). The older bits stayed but I never wrote newer bits (or the newer bits wound up being cut for space or coherence or whatever). Stuff like that. It was usually a case of raising standards, or looking back through and thinking "we could do that better." Eventually we had to stop going back, of course, because it would have never ended otherwise.

I kind of like the ambiguity of the background plot threads. They give a sense of other stories going on that Hisao never is privy to.

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Re: Ask!

Post by Oddball » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:32 pm

including a TIMESKIP EPILOGUE for her bad end
You're never going to tell us what this is, are you?
I kind of like the ambiguity of the background plot threads. They give a sense of other stories going on that Hisao never is privy to.
I agree with that. Finding out a bit more about some of them would have been nice, but it does make it feel like the world doesn't revolve around Hisao.
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:38 pm

Oddball wrote:
including a TIMESKIP EPILOGUE for her bad end
You're never going to tell us what this is, are you?
Probably not.

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Re: Ask!

Post by poopooface » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:50 pm

How long did the torturous and soul rending task of writing the H-scenes take?
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Atario
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Re: Ask!

Post by Atario » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:54 pm

Since the various paths were written by separate people, how did you handle it when coördination between paths was needed (e.g., same events occurring in each, as in Lilly/Hanako, or related things going on as in Lilly/Shizune)?
NB: none of the above is a request

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Kariya312
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Re: Ask!

Post by Kariya312 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:56 pm

Aura wrote:It doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to someone.

A ton of material got scrapped, but I don't think the primary reason ever was just someone improving over time, rather the standards rising was often the most immediate reason (which, granted, is very closely related)
The KS general threads on 4chan made a huge deal out of last night, eventually it got down to someone threatening to edit whatever bust charts were made if they're not "correct" according to the numbers. There was a lot of insult slinging as well, but that's par for the course with that place :lol:

That makes sense. Were there ever any instances where a writer scrapped a large amount of their own material of their own accord? More than a scene or even a handful of scenes, I'm talking rewriting an entire act or even the route itself. If so, relatively how often did that happen as opposed to, say, delta stepping in and mandating a rewrite, or one of the editors advising the writer to trash the scene entirely?

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Re: Ask!

Post by Silentcook » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:52 am

Atario wrote:Since the various paths were written by separate people, how did you handle it when coördination between paths was needed (e.g., same events occurring in each, as in Lilly/Hanako, or related things going on as in Lilly/Shizune)?
Rather badly. :roll:
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Re: Ask!

Post by bhtooefr » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:06 am

Hmm...

From Lilly's route:
Lilly (in Northern Sojourn) wrote:Hmm, from memory there's a small town not too far ahead. Other than that though, this is largely just old farmland. Akira and I stayed in our parents' house which was in the nearest city for a while, but after they left we decided to move into a smaller, more easily maintainable, house.
The context in this case is pretty clearly the nearest city to the summer home, and the summer home itself.

And then...
Lilly (in Prelude) wrote:Since I spent quite a few of my vacations here up until I entered Yamaku, I'd say I know it fairly well. We used to drive there once a weekend then. <snip> My family's real house is quite far south. When they left Japan, my parents gave it to Akira and I. Only Akira lives there now, after my moving into Yamaku.
Actually, there's a grammar error in there (Akira and I), but this is... tricky to parse properly. So, the summer home that they visit in Northern Sojourn is a replacement for a larger Satou summer home in the nearest city (I'm going with Hakodate being the nearest city, but the details aren't necessarily important in this case), and not their real home? Or, did I find a continuity error?

And, by "quite far south", how far south are we talking? Does Lilly just not have much sense of scale, and it's quite far south relative to Hokkaido (and may be relatively close to Yamaku), or even just having to go north for a while to get to Yamaku every day? I can't think it's much further south than, oh, Fukushima, given how much evidence points to Yamaku being in Sendai (I know, I know, that's not canon), unless there's also an apartment that Akira and Lilly got in/near Sendai or something.

Edit: Alright, it's south of Yamaku:
Sip (Part 2) wrote:Hisao: "You used to live together? Was it somewhere around here?"
Lilly: "It was pretty far south, so the trip into Yamaku was fairly long. With her working hours getting longer and Yamaku being so far away, there was little choice in the end but to move into the dormitories."
So, relatively close to Sendai (or wherever Yamaku is, anyway), but long enough that it was an arduous drive.

But...
Lilly (in Presents and Presence) wrote:I used to live further north, where there'd be plenty of snow to play in, so it's a little nostalgic. I don't like the heat very much, either.
I think I can build a timeline here - they used to live in Hokkaido (probably Hakodate), moved near Sendai (and by Sendai, I mean "the city that Yamaku's nearest to") for business reasons but kept the Hakodate house for a summer home, and then after the parents left, Lilly and Akira found the smaller house to replace the summer house, but kept the house near Sendai. Is that timeline anywhere near accurate?
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Oddball
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Re: Ask!

Post by Oddball » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:35 am

Who is Ryouko and where was she intended to appear?

http://shimmie.katawa-shoujo.com/post/list/ryouko/1
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Yukarin
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Re: Ask!

Post by Yukarin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:08 pm

Is it just me or did Red Velvet change key all of a sudden?

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:09 pm

Kariya312 wrote:
Aura wrote:It doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to someone.

A ton of material got scrapped, but I don't think the primary reason ever was just someone improving over time, rather the standards rising was often the most immediate reason (which, granted, is very closely related)
The KS general threads on 4chan made a huge deal out of last night, eventually it got down to someone threatening to edit whatever bust charts were made if they're not "correct" according to the numbers. There was a lot of insult slinging as well, but that's par for the course with that place :lol:

That makes sense. Were there ever any instances where a writer scrapped a large amount of their own material of their own accord? More than a scene or even a handful of scenes, I'm talking rewriting an entire act or even the route itself. If so, relatively how often did that happen as opposed to, say, delta stepping in and mandating a rewrite, or one of the editors advising the writer to trash the scene entirely?
Oh geez, that's unfortunate. This just wasn't a science to us, I only cared about everything being in the right ballpark and correct in relation to other things because stuff like exact measurements have zero narrative significance.

Your wording leaves what you imagine our working process was like a bit unclear. Nothing was ever that clear-cut because we didn't work in isolation, we consulted each other and took feedback and discussions into account. No one had the power to outright "mandate a rewrite". The writers expected to write several iterative drafts, because that's how writing is done. I guess ultimately every decision was up to the writers because we were the ones that did the writing?
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<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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