Katawa Shoujo Discussion

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ArcCain
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Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by ArcCain » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Katawa Shoujo Discussion

The following discussion contains spoilers!

I found it hard to review KS and when doing some research I found JewWarios review, he pretty much say´s what I am trying to say, so I will just link his review. Instead I will talk about what I think need´s to be talked about whit a quick run through of what is good. I am sure this will end up as a polite rant anyway, but that is just how I roll.

JewWarios review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-m0yq5x7Q

Hanako; Can you face your fears?: The best path in the game when it comes to editing and story, it´s theme is always there and it never get´s bogged down whit filler as far as I can remember. You either spend all the time whit Hanako, (if you choose to), or you spend time whit other characters learning about her or yourself, it also has two quite clever and borderline chocking revelations. The later of which made me drop my jaw and forced me to take a 10 minute brake, it was that good. The sex scene is seen in a very negative light because it makes you feel wired, and that´s the point, it is meant to feel wired so it hit´s you even harder later when the second reveal comes. And her story has one of the most simple and satisfying endings I have seen in games for a long time.

Katawa Shoujo Interview: Cpl_Crud: Hanako Path Writer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dGaWH3S0dA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcJdGA9Uc3g

Emi; Can you stand up for yourself?: It is the most light hearted of the story´s and the only reason for why it is not number one is that you can get side tracked by it and have no way out, it puts you on a four hour rail-road and by the time you can start to make choices your already on her path. But it is quite cute, funny and it deals whit the concept of running from your fears rather then facing them, even though the “lemon” scene seams to make people a bit butt hurt, ( ;3 ), TheHiveMind did say that he really did not want to do it but he ended up drawing the short straw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2EmH64aq-w

Lilly; Can you see what I see?: Lilly´s path was my favourite and the only reason why it is number three is due to some dialogue during their confession felt wired and there is one edit I did not like, that and you have pretty much seen the same story several times already. That is not a bad thing though and this is the only story who´s ending got me cheering for Hisao, I literally shouted at the screen; “Come on man you can´t give up now!”, “No this is not how it can end! Come on you bastards!” and “Fuck yeah!” to name a few. Even if it´s not the best edited it is my favourite and the most “mature” out of all the paths. It is a really simple and cute love story where the boy meet´s a blind girl. Some times you don´t need more then that. Btw, Lilly is Catholic; http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t ... 29#p149429

Okay so whit that out of the way lets get to the big two and the problems of KS, Rin and Shizune.

Rin; Can you seize the day?: I was hoping to get Rin on my first play trough but got to her last of many different reasons, she is one of the most interesting of the characters and have some of the best lines in the game, easily stealing every scene she is in outside of her arc. It´s a shame that her story is sort of a waste, her first act is really good. We get close to her and learn some stuff about her, she even try´s to open up to us and tell us how she feels about life, school, friends and other stuff. Rins first act is a grate intro for what could have been a nice story about art, inspiration and how she sees the world but then her second act rolls around and the story just sits on it self for several hour´s not moving, all progress we made in her story so far just halts. It is trying to tell a story by saying too much that means nothing which is not the way to go, it dose not help that it is the path that mostly rely on using fancy words that I honestly did not understand, and I wrote them down so that I could check what they meant later. There is nothing wrong whit repetition one self or use a simple word as long as you get your point across, I filled three note book pages whit words I have never or rarely seen before. Add to that choices that does not matter and only serve to confuse you, (I speed rune her path, grabbed all the “bad choices” and still got the good ending), and when you want to make choices you don´t get to, like when Rin is facing down her teacher, why did we not get a chance to help her? There is only two important chooses in her story.

The second act of her story just shut´s down in to this weird, for lack of a better word; thing, and it is clear that Hisao can never be together whit Rin just to have her show up at the last second in the last act and now she is interested in him whit no real reason given... I see what the writer tried to do whit the, “Rin can´t be whit him as the new Rin” thing but it just did not work and the meaningless choices dose not help... The funny thing is that her story is well edited and has a clear theme.

It feels like it is playing poker and gets a good hand early on but then just keeps folding till it´s out of chips, it dose not matter if it get´s a Royal Flush it has nothing to bet with.

The first erotic scene just feels wired and not in the same way as Hankos, it is just there and it dose not belong anywhere in the game, the second Hisao finds Rin in that situation he should have given her a hug, comforted, made sure she had a shower, (if possible), then put her to bed as she was physically and mentally exhausted. They could have had a discussion as she feel asleep and the next morning Hisao should have made sure she had a healthy breakfast, they could have talked more about what relation ship they actually have but no. Even though Rin is confused over who she is and what she want´s to do the game act´s like she dose not need any help and we are not given a reason to why she is so isolated the story just say´s; her mind is like a different world, and sits on it till the end where it just goes away and everything is fine. And this is sad cause her second love scene, not including the foreplay which was a bit wobbly, is the best in the game, why? Because it is about the character and not the sex act it self, but it´s to little to late and even if the last half hour is really good we should have been there at least halfway through her path, as it stands now its not enough. Rins path is really strong in act1, act 2 and in the last part of act 4, everything else is just... (shrug), sorry. :(

Rin´s story is not deep but it thinks it is and that is it´s biggest flaw. The story should have been about us helping her out of her shell but the game hates when Hisao is trying to be helpful like the plague. Just cause he is helping her dose not make him into a white knight, it´s just human.

Shizune; Can you tell me what you think?: I am not even going to sugar coat this, Shizunes path is bad, the editing is terrible. It keeps cutting and fading whenever something is about to happen. It is filled whit filler, we spend more time whit other characters then whit Shizune, their relationship just sort of happens and you don´t really feel any connection to her. Characters motivation is also all over the place, and there is only one choice which is not even hard.

I thought the theme whit Shizunes path would be the question, what do you do when your together whit someone only to realise that you are in love whit some one else, and yes I am talking about Misha. We spend a lot of time whit her, maybe even more time then whit Shizune, she even asks us twice if we think she is cute, one being more playful but the other being more serious and we tell her yes, we do find her cute. This could have been a very interesting theme and could have been explored when we where at Shizunes house, (instead of spending hours on achieving nothing...), did he really love Shizune or not? Was he right with asking Shizune out? Dose he really love Misha? After all he and Misha has been on what could be seen as dates. You could have had up to four endings if you so like or just two and still make it work.

It would also tackle the question of how do you save a friendship after something like that, can you even do it? And if you choose to stay whit Shizune you could have them open up to each other over the time they are at the house but no. Just like Rin but worse Shizune holds her card all the way and when she plays them it is not a winning hand. When we come to the choice with Misha we open the flood gates of questions like, if Misha is gay or at the very least bisexual, (confirmed as a lesbian and not bisexual by TheHiveMind, can be seen here: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4896&start=2640), why dose she come to sleep whit us, it would be okay if their was real build but that dose not happen. No matter what you choose she remains depressed and when she tells us what she feels for Shizune and that she does not know if she can live whit out her, implying that she might kill herself once they separate, tells us to stop being dramatic when we take what she say´s seriously! What?! And then all the problems whit Misha goes away just as fast as they appear thanks to the power of friendship... Why even bring it up then? And I seem to not be the only one finding Shizunes good ending unclear and a bit forced, in fact her bad ending is almost the same but more clear and it ends whit her and Hisao braking up, something that is implied in the good ending anyway.

But! Shizunes path is not all bad! It has a lot of humour and I laughed a lot playing trough it, Jigoro is a comedic goldmine and I do think that the “conflict” between him and Shizune is interesting but it just feels like it does not really matter. Kenji sort of becomes a legit character for a short scene in Shizune path, the "Learn to read" act has some interesting moments. The best scene from Shizune path is her first love scene, not the second one, it is just their to through boobs at you one more time before credits but the first one, just like Rins, is character based. Shizune ties Hisaos hand behind his back and seats him in a chair, she den sits on him, the grate thing is that its a sex scene where you don´t see anything. Most people will say that she only dose it to be in a dominant position but there is more to it, the reason why she tied Hisaos hand out of sight is so that he can´t talk to her when they make love, once they are done she holds his hands, this is one of the most intimate moments in the game, them holding hands. And I fucking love it!

Shizune´s path is like a roller-coaster, it has some amazing highpoint but also some horrible lows.

I hope that I don´t make people mad about this and if I missed something please do point it out so we can have a healthy discussion. Some things I left out otherwise it would have been to long.

I had a grate time playing KS till 100% and have clocked in around 75 hours and 30 minutes, maybe even more, I think that you guys over at Four Leaf Studios has made something truly grate and you should be proud! The Sound track is one of the best I have heard in years so give Blue123, Nicol, Juno and Delta a pat on the back. And the game did motivate me to solve some stuff in my real life. I wish all of Four Leaf Studios a good future.

:)

Fun Facts:
In the alpha Lilly had a seeing dog named Niji.
Hisao read quite a few books trough out the VN, one of them being "I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell", this book was confirmed by Aura at http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4896&start=2775 . Aura talked gave a reason here: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4896&start=2730
Last edited by ArcCain on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:27 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by pandaphil » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:30 pm

Nicely written review sir. (*pssst* its spelled "weird", not "wired") :)


I got my first exposure to KS through JewWario too. Though I have a bit of a grudge against him for not mentioning it was a free downloadable in his review. If I'd known I might have gotten into this months ago.
Last edited by pandaphil on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by RichieBerry » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:52 pm

pandaphil wrote:(*pssst* its spelled "wierd", not "wired") :)
Actually, it's, uh... spelled "weird." :)
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by KeiichiO » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:17 pm

~EDIT
Last edited by KeiichiO on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by pandaphil » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:24 pm

RichieBerry wrote:
pandaphil wrote:(*pssst* its spelled "wierd", not "wired") :)
Actually, it's, uh... spelled "weird." :)


FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!


We need a facepalm smilie. :)
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by ArcCain » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:48 pm

I am planing on maybe giving Rins and Shizunes paths another play trough later to see if I missed anything. I understood that she could not focus whit Hisao there and she still wanted him to be there, it´s just that I was hoping for a bit more to happen under Rins path, I would have wanted the exhibition to be over before act 4 started so we can have the last act dedicated to their relationship. I still love Rin though. :)

Weird is spelled weird. And thank you. :3
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by Dream » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 am

The story should have been about us helping her out of her shell but the game hates when Hisao is trying to be helpful like the plague. Just cause he is helping her dose not make him into a white knight, it´s just human.
I'm not entirely sure of this. Most if not all of the instances where the girl is rejecting help don't seem to be so much a judgement of the game but rather a realistic reaction from the kind of person Hanako/Emi/etc. is. And in fact a helpful (truly, honestly helpful) Hisao often winds up in the good end.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by ArcCain » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:50 am

Hmm, Lilly´s story is about being honest.

Emi´s and Hanakos is about opening up to each other.

Shizune´s story is... well I am not sure what it´s theme or message was.

Rin´s story is about finding your self and what you to do when you grow up, so I may have been wrong in that. I would have liked getting closer to Rin sooner rather then later.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by KeiichiO » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:57 am

~EDIT
Last edited by KeiichiO on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by pandaphil » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:34 pm

The hard part about her as a character is that there's so little feedback from her. No "I love you", and very few signs of actual affection. And what little there is is very subtle. She mostly just lets you hang out with her. One of the few really sweet moments is near the end, where she turns up soaking wet on your doorstep. Its not her fault. Its just a symptom of her inability to communicate.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by ArcCain » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:22 pm

KeiichiO wrote:
ArcCain wrote: I would have liked getting closer to Rin sooner rather then later.
I would have too. I believed that Rin was incredibly stubborn, which she kind of is, but it's hard... to even... COMPREHEND...

Why is Rin so complicated??
We are not given much reason beyond she being unsure of herself.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by KeiichiO » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:17 pm

~EDIT
Last edited by KeiichiO on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by ArcCain » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm

This is a discussion thread so no worry´s, but they do say in the game that Yamaku dose not take student´s whit problems other then physical. (And "normal" people that can afford to go their.)

Rin actually reminds me of Hotaru from Samurai Deeper Kyo, the manga not the anime.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by pandaphil » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:58 am

ArcCain wrote:This is a discussion thread so no worry´s, but they do say in the game that Yamaku dose not take student´s whit problems other then physical. (And "normal" people that can afford to go their.)

Rin actually reminds me of Hotaru from Samurai Deeper Kyo, the manga not the anime.
Which struck me as odd with Hanako. I mean is her scarrign actually a disability? She seems able to function just fine. Its her social anxiety that holds her back.

And yes its possible Rin is autistic or has some some other mental problem. But the schools not equpped to deal with that so shes not getting treatment. Or else everyones made such a big deal about her lack of arms that nobodies ever bothered to have her tested.
Last edited by pandaphil on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Katawa Shoujo Discussion

Post by RichieBerry » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:54 am

pandaphil wrote: Which struck me as odd with Hanako. I mean is her scarrign actually a disability? She seems able to function just fine. Its her social anxiety that holds her back.
Large area burns can have some fairly serious effects, in many cases. The main problem is water retention issues (that is, you can't sweat through severely burned skin). This seems to pretty thorough: http://www.burn-recovery.org/long-term-treatment.htm (The first two paragraphs only apply to Hanako before Katawa Shoujo takes place). I hadn't thought of a lot of that; turns out skin does a lot. None of this is emergency care, or anything, but it stuff that should probably be monitored and checked up on every once in a while, and Yamaku seems like it would be really well suited to that kind of thing.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the game say that Yamaku doesn't take mentally disabled students? That is, students who were born with or received due to brain trauma, mental deficiencies (or to use a less polite term, retarded). That's slightly different than what Hanako has. She... has difficulty coping mentally with (what was at least at first) a physical problem. It seems like the people at Yamaku would have had a lot of experience in that area just as a result teaching students with more extreme physical disabilities. And they clearly focus heavily on the mental aspect of physical disabilities. What was it that Mutou said? Something like "We give them a place to feel normal, where they can focus on their education without worrying about their disabilities holding them back." It was something like that. I can't remember it or find it anywhere.
"Why do you make that noise? Are you mad? Well, obviously. Good. Your sweater is terrible, and I want you to feel bad about it. The burn tells me it is working."
"I like my sweater."
"I'm sure you like huffing glue, too. That doesn't make it right."

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