Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

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YZQ
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by YZQ » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:16 am

Unlike most likers of her route, I'm actually more in favour of her rising to the challenge. As such, I'm one of those who are likely to poke her into asserting herself. As such, the H-scene was no big deal.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:02 pm

YZQ wrote:Unlike most likers of her route, I'm actually more in favour of her rising to the challenge. As such, I'm one of those who are likely to poke her into asserting herself. As such, the H-scene was no big deal.
That might very well be happening already if she gets Cognitive Behavior Therapy which (among many other things) involves setting goals and minimizing self-defeating thoughts. I wouldn't recommend "poking" her if you aren't a therapist and don't know exactly where her various landmines are located...just because she's not likely to kill herself on a whim doesn't mean she isn't prone to sudden bouts of depression and panic attacks and her episode in class was one example where a particular poke hit a really raw nerve without anybody near even knowing what exactly set her off.

As for the H-scene, it was okay because Hanako consented to it and thus was fine with it happening. If she had been reluctant to go through with it and the acts in that scene had been an attempt on Hisao's part to push her past her comfort zone, it would have been outright rape and the "poking" that took place there would certainly have been a really big deal.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by YZQ » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:19 pm

It would be better that the landmines actually blow up. The panic attacks and depression end up flying over people's heads.

Also, Hisao is still coddling her to the extent that he wouldn't even consider the poke.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:51 pm

YZQ wrote:It would be better that the landmines actually blow up. The panic attacks and depression end up flying over people's heads.
My opinion is that it is better to disarm a landmine than to blow one up. The panic attacks and depression flew up over her classmates' heads, but not over the school's nursing staff's...it's not her classmates' duty to play therapist for her.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by YZQ » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:56 pm

At least Mutou gets it. Nurses are definitely overworked.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Oddball » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:39 pm

Dream wrote:^ Great post.
Ironically, Hanako's "seduction" ended up having the intended effect in a very roundabout way. By creating an extremely necessary crisis in their disfunctional relationship that threatened their very friendship, both Hisao and Hanako were forced to come clean about their intentions and feelings in a way they wouldn't have done under normal circumstances. Their awkward first time essentially destroyed their shaky friendship and allowed them to start over with a clean slate. This wouldn't have happened if their first time hadn't been such an epic fail.
I agree that things ended up being for the best (things could have easily ended up way worse) but i wouldn't be so sure if Hanako's sex scene was the only way she could have taken both her and Hisao from the status quo their relationship got to in that point, at least that's the impression i got from this paragraph. Sorry if what i wrote doesn't make sense.
At the time it happened, Hisao wasn't even sure Hanako was ready for that type of relationship at all, or for that matter, if she was mentally and emotionally capable of it. Despite the fact that he did want to be her boyfriend.

Hanako was dealing the with the fact that Hisao was suddenly being more distant than usual. He was ignoring her, spending less time with her, and not even commenting on her very obvious attempts to prove herself. (Going to the Shanghai by herself to spend time with him. He didn't seem to pay her much attention. Next step, she goes to the city, in daylight, by herself and calls Hisao to meet her. This is something that had to take a rather huge effort for her, but he doesn't seem to act all that out of the ordinary about it. (Although he does buy her a nice little gift.)

Maybe they could have came up with another way to open themselves up to each other.
They could have sat down and talked about it ... if they were anybody but Hanako and Hisao. Neither Hanako nor Hisao are really good at expressing themselves and Hisao in particular treats Hanako with silk lines gloves.

There's also the option of just spending lots of time together and getting to know each other better before taking the next step.

That is also not an option. From Hanako's point of view, Hisao had already gotten tired of her. She needed to do something quickly, before Lilly returns.

Lilly actually makes a word of difference here. Hanako had alsready shown some slight signs of jealous previously and Hisao does get along well with her...
More importantly, if she waits until Lilly returns, she just becomes the third wheel again. Hisao and Lilly have much stronger personalities and are more outgoing. She'd fall back into the spot of just tagging along with whatever ideas they had. She's just more comfortable that way.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:15 pm

Indeed. She needed something to give their relationship a jolt to push them beyond friendship to being something more. And this was certainly the way to go about it. Its just a good thing that Hisao wasn't the "Love'em and leave'em" sort of person.

And yeah, it was painful for her, but she's endured a hell of a lot worse in her life.
Last edited by pandaphil on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:38 pm

Hmm, interesting psychoanalyzing going on here...

I can't help but state that, were I in Hisao's position, I'd be more forward in letting her know I like her. Which would lead to completely different situations altogether. In my mind, pretty much anyone can be ready for a relationship at the right time. Some may have other obligations or goals they want to achieve first, but Hanako isn't in that position. Heck, it's probably safe to assume that Hisao is the first male her age that had any kind of positive ongoing conversation with her.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:04 am

That's kind of easy to say. It was a bit tricky with Hanako.

Near the start of Act 3, Hisao had already somewhat reached the point where he concluded that he liked her and it's implied he was playing with the thought of asking her out. Then he lets slip in class that he and Lilly went to town to buy her a birthday gift and Hanako promptly shuts down in response. I don't think it was illogical for Hisao to think: "If the mere mention of a birthday gift is enough to cause her to have a nervous breakdown and be absent from class for a day, what effect would a confession have on her?". I think most people would be spooked a bit by an experience like that and would go out of their way to prevent something similar from happening again. In addition, for Hisao personally, it kind of makes sense for him to be more reserved than usual about it since it was a confession that left HIM in the hospital for half a year...it's logical he wouldn't want to put someone else through a semi-similar experience. The deja vu would probably leave him emotionally messed up as well.

I think Hisao's fault wasn't so much that he was wary of taking his friendship with Hanako to the next stage...the nurse himself told Hisao that Hanako's issues were a bit of a minefield and while treating Hanako with silk gloves wasn't the answer, pretending her issues didn't exist would have been just as stupid. I think Hisao's mistake was not so much treading carefully around Hanako, but going too far with it. (that and focussing on her issues in an attempt to avoid his own)
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:50 am

That did seem to be a point that came up several time sin her arc. That Hisao needed to get his own house in order before he tried to help 'fix' hers.

An interestign question to think about. Do you think so many of us would be attracted to Hanako is she were to magically get over her shyness and become a normal, confident person?

Do we really love her, or her personality trait?
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:43 am

The thing is, it wouldn't just magically disappear. It would take years. Years of things like deepening her relationship with Hisao, making more friends slowly but surely, and exploring her interests and what not. Not to mention college and career pursuits. Assuming it's her good ending that happens, of course.

I'd not like to consider the possibilities if she and Hisao didn't date and Lilly leaves before the end of the school year. I stay away from that train of thought.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:38 pm

Its just something I think about I guess. Would Hanako be as cute without her shyness?


And yeah, I don't like to think about Hanako being left alone either. I like to think that Lilly would arrange to have her come to Scotland with her. Maybe not realistic, but my reality, my rules. :)

Otoh, having her and Shizune/Misha becoming friends has its appeal.
Last edited by pandaphil on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by YZQ » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:44 am

Without her shyness, she'll be more of silk hiding steel.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:30 am

It wouldn't be cold steel, though. The girl has a heart. Otherwise, you'd be able to tell if she was cruel and cynical like most people in her position would be.

Most people nowadays that go through bad things, they start hating people that hurt them, judging people much quicker... it's just so much easier to forgive and forget. Makes you much more happy and cheerful. Mercy, people. It's one word that will make your life much, much better.

What this has to do with Hanako? Well, a real person in her position will not find true peace until they learn to forgive the ones that hurt them. Hating people that hurt you solves nothing. I learned that long ago. Hmm, Will Smith put it best... "Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too."

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:53 am

Hanako may not be cruel, but she did end up cynical. Since she talks so little, you just don't find out about that immediately. And I don't think she's ready to forgive the people who hurt her, since she's still struggling with the consequences on a daily basis. It might be entirely possible she does hate her bullies since every day is a struggle against the anxieties she has because of them. It's easy to say "don't hate...being happy is easier", but it's a rational argument that ignores how human beings are wired. I don't think being happy has been particularly easy for Hanako so far.
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