Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

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pandaphil
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:38 pm

But yeah, having just finished Lilly's story, I really wish Hanako's could have been more like hers. Actually showing her confidence starting to grow.

Or at the very least, I'd have loved to have seen Lilly's return and reaction to the new romance. Would she have been thrilled and excited? Turned matchmaker, i.e. setting the two lovebirds up with romantic dinners and the like? A little jealous? Or gotten all "I assume your intentions are honorable?" towards Hisao. :)
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by OtakuNinja » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:52 pm

pandaphil wrote: Or at the very least, I'd have loved to have seen Lilly's return and reaction to the new romance. Would she have been thrilled and excited? Turned matchmaker, i.e. setting the two lovebirds up with romantic dinners and the like? A little jealous? Or gotten all "I assume your intentions are honorable?" towards Hisao. :)
That's why there are fanfics. :)
I highly recommend Sisterhood, And to live in peace, The Birthday Surprise and Mendācium. :)

Also, this one is really good. (Love triangle ;))
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:53 pm

OtakuNinja wrote:
pandaphil wrote: Or at the very least, I'd have loved to have seen Lilly's return and reaction to the new romance. Would she have been thrilled and excited? Turned matchmaker, i.e. setting the two lovebirds up with romantic dinners and the like? A little jealous? Or gotten all "I assume your intentions are honorable?" towards Hisao. :)
That's why there are fanfics. :)
I highly recommend Sisterhood, And to live in peace, The Birthday Surprise and Mendācium. :)

Also, this one is really good. (Love triangle ;))

Thank you. I was thinking of asking for a list of reccomended fanfics. I'm off to do some downloading. :)
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:37 pm

I'm about halfway through Sisterhood and so far its everything I wanted to see in KS. Thank you so much for your reccomendation!
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Morlok8k » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:38 pm

I've read sisterhood, and it was exactly how i felt the game should had been.

I'll take a look at the others, thanks!

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Faelivri » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:06 am

pandaphil wrote: Or at the very least, I'd have loved to have seen Lilly's return and reaction to the new romance. Would she have been thrilled and excited? Turned matchmaker, i.e. setting the two lovebirds up with romantic dinners and the like? A little jealous? Or gotten all "I assume your intentions are honorable?" towards Hisao. :)
Not jealous for sure. She helped to build relationship between Hisao and Hanako (for example: scene after birthday party when she ask Hisao to take Hanako back to her room when she was drunk). Happy and excited? Yes.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:23 am

Faelivri wrote:
pandaphil wrote: Or at the very least, I'd have loved to have seen Lilly's return and reaction to the new romance. Would she have been thrilled and excited? Turned matchmaker, i.e. setting the two lovebirds up with romantic dinners and the like? A little jealous? Or gotten all "I assume your intentions are honorable?" towards Hisao. :)
Not jealous for sure. She helped to build relationship between Hisao and Hanako (for example: scene after birthday party when she ask Hisao to take Hanako back to her room when she was drunk). Happy and excited? Yes.
Yeah, that's pretty much the route I've taken in my fanfics. Shes's even gotten Akira in on the act in helping H & H bond closer together.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Mindfeeder » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:06 am

Alpha Morlock wrote:My third problem with Hanako's story arc is THAT FUCKING SEX SCENE. (...) As a player who had grown attached to the characters in the game, I was fucking horrified watching this scene. (...) he responds by fucking her? Not even saying anything comforting to her beforehand, or expressing his feelings for her, just leading her to the bed and fucking her? What the hell, Hisao? I'd like to know the train of thought that could have even led him to decide to do that. Actually, I probably wouldn't.

Lastly, Hisao and Hanako don't become a couple until the very end of the game. This was the biggest 'fuck you' to the players imaginable. Once you finally get what you waited the whole game for, it ends, and very abruptly too. Possibly the worst part was the 'love' they confessed for each other seemed Platonic. I mean, they said they 'loved' each other and Hisao agreed to stop treating her like she was totally helpless, but the way the ending was, I could only really imagine that afterwards they had a somewhat healthier friendship. Their love still seemed like a love between friends, not a 'love' love. Having played the game for hours and getting this at the end, I felt cheated.

So what do you guys think? Do you have other problems with Hanako's arc that I didn't cover here? Do you have another idea of how the story should have gone? Did you love the story how it was in the game, and think I'm full of shit? Lay it on me.
EXACTLY!! I was so frickin' shocked, I can hardly express my feelings after this. I finished the Emi route first (even though I really wanted Hanako but simply went running with Emi so everything turned out like that – which was a very slow, but SO romantic process and the payoff at the end was amazing!) – but all I really wanted was the Hanako route so it was a fucking slap in my face getting that sex scene that was completely devoid of feelings! What the hell?!!

I mean... everything that lead up to it was really touching! The way Hanako led Hisao to her room, clinging onto him in a different way than before... so romantic, it was amazing! Then to show him her whole body... it was a bit much but it didn't feel out of place, I think. Well... from that moment on, though, everything went down the fucking drain!

You know what I would have LOVED? Hisao being gentle and cautious with her!! It would have been so touching, so romantic if her exposing to him like that would have ended in a deeply romantic kiss that I was absolutely YEARNING for at that point!! Just the two of them kissing! Hisao revealing Hanako's face completely, caressing it, kissing her deeply. The two talking to each other, getting physically close to each other for the first time! He might have spent the night with her by just sleeping very close next to her, holding her in his arms. Oh, how I would have loved something like that – I even expected something like that a little bit when he locked the door and she closed the curtains.

But what the HELL happens instead? He INSTANTLY grabs her breasts, grabs her crotch, and (completely devoid of care!) forces himself into her, ignoring the fact that she's in pain! What were the writers thinking??!! How could Hisao be THAT much of an insensitive and selfish prick all of a sudden?! And with HANAKO, for crying out loud!!

But the worst things are yet to come!! He wakes up, she's gone. (I, playing the game, am feeling extremely miserable at this point.) There had hardly been any talking after the sex, so it seemed completely unemotional! (Just as a comparison [minor Emi spoiler ahead!]: being close to Emi when she fell asleep, that day she was ill, was so romantic!!)So Hanako's gone, but comes back into the room and I feel a slight relief. I absolutely expect Hisao to talk to Hanako about everything, to AT LEAST tell her how he feels, to show a testament of all the feelings that were built up before the sex scene! But WHAT did the writers do? Well, this is what they did: "We've never felt like talking while eating so we just dig into our breakfasts." – are you FUCKING KIDDING ME??!!! Well, thanks a LOT!! (I seriously felt sick at that point.) Also everything that happened after that, before Hanako sank to her knees in the park – it all felt like the BAD ending!

I could ramble on for ages now, but all that's left for me to say is:

why.

While I couldn't stop playing KS for about four days in a row now, always longing to continue playing while I was away from the computer, I seriously doubt I'll try any of the other girl's routes anytime soon.


edit: I mean... I've played through the whole part from her undressing for him again (just a minute ago) with her thoughts in mind that she thought she'd keep him interested in her that way. Especially the part in the park where the two talk about everything and why they did what... and Hisao realizing that their sex had been under false premises helped me stand this ending this second time around – and I must admit it feels really realistic. Hanako's motive... this "letting him have his way in order to keep him interested because she's afraid of losing him" feels like something that could actually happen.

But still I can't stand reading the sex scene part, it's embarassing. I'm really embarassed by Hisao's deeds. He was so careful with her before that – how could he change like that, the prick?
Doesn't anyone have a romantic fanfiction about the part directly after she strips naked for Hisao to make up for that? With all the "revealing Hanako's face completely, caressing it, kissing her deeply"-stuff? That would really help. And I also think that it would have really worked in the story! Hisao didn't HAVE to be an insensitive asshole for the story to work! At all!!

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Faelivri » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:39 am

@UP I'm just gonna quote my old post:
Faelivri wrote:Just a fast copy-paste from Youtube:

I guess I have to be the one to say it.

Guys, Hanako intended for Hisao to have sex with her. It was her idea. Not for her own pleasure, but as she explains later, it was to basically keep Hisao interested in her. Hisao isn't the only one in the wrong, as they both realize afterwards.

I seriously feel like I'm the only one reading the story, and not having a "Hisao, you motherfucker, you're hurting my waifu" hissy fit.


She love Hisao. She told him all about her past, even Lilly don't know everything. Hanako want to be with him, want Hisao to be "interested in her". And thats the reason why she do that. We can't blame her or Hisao, both made a decision. And whats happening next, your know.

BTW. My first post. Sup guys.
BTW2. Good english is good :lol:
But if I thinking about that now, does she really wanted it? She just wanted to show him her body, I think... But she allowed him to do what he wanted, and he was nervous about that whole situation too... And she still gives him that sweet smile after everything... This is a bit complicated, but I don't take back my words and I still agree with everything what I posted before. Just need a bit of correction.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:30 am

@Mindfeeder: Run, don't walk to the Fanfic topic and read "Sisterhood". Its everything you want, and more than makes up for their unpleasant first time.


At this point I've just learned to accept Hanako's scene for what it was. Two very nervous teenagers who didn't really know what they were doing at the time. I think even Hisao feels some regret about it in the long run.

But you're right though, it does grate a bit, simply because from Emi and Lilly's routes, we know Hisao has it in him to be kind and gentle.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Mindfeeder » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:11 am

pandaphil wrote:@Mindfeeder: Run, don't walk to the Fanfic topic and read "Sisterhood". Its everything you want, and more than makes up for their unpleasant first time.
Thanks you, I'll do that! :)
pandaphil wrote:At this point I've just learned to accept Hanako's scene for what it was. Two very nervous teenagers who didn't really know what they were doing at the time. I think even Hisao feels some regret about it in the long run.
You're absolutely right. I obviously was so put off by the sex scene the first time around, that I was quite angrily reading through that part in the park at the end.

I've read through the end a third time now, though, and both Hanako's and Hisao's words are exceptionally significant there. Almost every word in the park is worth reading carefully, or slowly, or twice, I think. It really does make a lot of sense.
pandaphil wrote:But you're right though, it does grate a bit, simply because from Emi and Lilly's routes, we know Hisao has it in him to be kind and gentle.
I've yet to play Lilly's route but you're definitely right with the Emi route. I was really impressed by KS' great storytelling when I completed that route.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:19 pm

Mindfeeder wrote:
pandaphil wrote:@Mindfeeder: Run, don't walk to the Fanfic topic and read "Sisterhood". Its everything you want, and more than makes up for their unpleasant first time.
Thanks you, I'll do that! :)
pandaphil wrote:At this point I've just learned to accept Hanako's scene for what it was. Two very nervous teenagers who didn't really know what they were doing at the time. I think even Hisao feels some regret about it in the long run.
You're absolutely right. I obviously was so put off by the sex scene the first time around, that I was quite angrily reading through that part in the park at the end.

I've read through the end a third time now, though, and both Hanako's and Hisao's words are exceptionally significant there. Almost every word in the park is worth reading carefully, or slowly, or twice, I think. It really does make a lot of sense.
pandaphil wrote:But you're right though, it does grate a bit, simply because from Emi and Lilly's routes, we know Hisao has it in him to be kind and gentle.
I've yet to play Lilly's route but you're definitely right with the Emi route. I was really impressed by KS' great storytelling when I completed that route.
Glad you're feeling better about it. If you do read Sisterhood I hope you'll share your thoughts. Really if you think about it, H & H's first time is probably closer to how it works in real life than the more romantic encounters in the other arcs.

On the plus side, I think that scene has inspired a lot of fans the write sweet and loving romantic stories and love scenes for those two just to make up for the first time. I know it has for me. :)
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Mindfeeder » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:57 pm

pandaphil wrote:Glad you're feeling better about it.
Thank you! :) I absolutely love the fact that you people here are so compassionate and caring. :)
pandaphil wrote:If you do read Sisterhood I hope you'll share your thoughts.
I will most definitely. At the moment, though, I'm in a bit of a predicament: I bet I should play Lilly's route before reading "Sisterhood" (ain't that right?), but I can't think of any other girls at the moment because Hanako has completely captivated and indulged my senses. Imagining going through Lilly's route and seeing Hanako again... that reminds me of how it went when starting another route (the beginning of the Hanako route) right after completing Emi's: CLICK!
pandaphil wrote:Really if you think about it, H & H's first time is probably closer to how it works in real life than the more romantic encounters in the other arcs.
I guess so. It's not especially comfortable thinking about that but it's probably more realistic.
pandaphil wrote:On the plus side, I think that scene has inspired a lot of fans the write sweet and loving romantic stories and love scenes for those two just to make up for the first time. I know it has for me. :)
I'm so looking forward to reading your work!! :)

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:13 pm

Mindfeeder wrote:
pandaphil wrote:Glad you're feeling better about it.
Thank you! :) I absolutely love the fact that you people here are so compassionate and caring. :)
pandaphil wrote:If you do read Sisterhood I hope you'll share your thoughts.
I will most definitely. At the moment, though, I'm in a bit of a predicament: I bet I should play Lilly's route before reading "Sisterhood" (ain't that right?), but I can't think of any other girls at the moment because Hanako has completely captivated and indulged my senses. Imagining going through Lilly's route and seeing Hanako again... that reminds me of how it went when starting another route (the beginning of the Hanako route) right after completing Emi's: CLICK!
pandaphil wrote:Really if you think about it, H & H's first time is probably closer to how it works in real life than the more romantic encounters in the other arcs.
I guess so. It's not especially comfortable thinking about that but it's probably more realistic.
pandaphil wrote:On the plus side, I think that scene has inspired a lot of fans the write sweet and loving romantic stories and love scenes for those two just to make up for the first time. I know it has for me. :)
I'm so looking forward to reading your work!! :)
You're welcome. I don't think you can let a game like this can suck you in unless you're a compassionate person. (Well, maybe Xanatos, but he's a special case). :)

I think you may be right though.It might be for the best to do Lilly's scene before reading the story, as it might spoil the fic. Not to worry though. Lilly is an amazing woman and very easy to love. Hanako still features prominently and good things happen with her. Hisao also proves again that hes a nice guy.

And thanks again! I already have a couple of short pieces in the Fanfic topic. Look under "Hanako/Hisao Mini-Fics".
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Mindfeeder » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:36 pm

pandaphil wrote:And thanks again! I already have a couple of short pieces in the Fanfic topic. Look under "Hanako/Hisao Mini-Fics".
Have you thought about converting your fanfics (especially "Sisterhood", of course!) into a game using Ren'py? That would absolutely rule!

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