Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

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pandaphil
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Fri May 10, 2013 4:20 am

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I think it was using the word "protect." Something tells me that Hanako doesn't like that word. Nobody likes that word, they automatically assume it means you treat them like a child and what not.
I remember that scene. She got really quiet for a minute before she said anything. Its probably where the "You only think of me as someone who needs protecting" thing came from.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Fri May 10, 2013 4:53 am

She seems really adorable during the pool scene. We get to see another example of how she can focus and be really good at something. When I look at her, I don't really see scars at all. I see a woman I'd love spending my life with... but hey, who am I kidding? Hopefully soon enough I find out who my other half truly is. At 30 years old it's high time for that.

For now though, the love in my heart for Hanako will have to do. It brings peace and comfort until the grass gets greener, in any case.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Fri May 10, 2013 8:12 pm

^ Well, Id say that pretty much applies to all Hanabro's.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by KeiichiO » Fri May 10, 2013 8:23 pm

pandaphil wrote:^ Well, Id say that pretty much applies to all Hanabro's.
I'd say the same goes for fans of all the girls, except with their respective disability/problem in mind.

I've said this before, but I try to view Hanako's scarring as an extended beauty mark,because I'm all optimistic like that. Of course, her scarring is practically a physical reminder of her painful history, but if you try and shine some light on it, maybe the linking of her past and her scarring won't be as evident, and hopefully diminish fully.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sat May 11, 2013 3:54 am

Your intentions are wonderful, but I don't think it's possible for someone's pain to 100% disappear. That, and Hanako's type of damage takes years to recover. How do I know? Because I went through similar things myself, it took me years to come out of my shell.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Sat May 11, 2013 4:33 am

Random thoughts:

Thinking about it, Its not just her shyness that appeals to me. I've always had a soft spot for the outcasts, the nerds, the people who get picked last for the sports team, and the people who just don't fit in. As much as I love Emi, shes still the well liked sports hero. And as sweet as Lilly is, in another setting she could easily be Captain of the cheerleader team, or Prom Queen. I love Hanako because shes a bit of an underdog. The sort of people I've always cheered for.

Also, as cute as a shy Hanako is, I find the thought of her smiling and feeling excitied over some personal victory, whether its passing an exam, getting accepted into college, getting a story published, or even just buying a fancy dress with her own money, or getting her ears pierced to be quite attractive and a bit of a turn on. :)
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sat May 11, 2013 4:39 am

Yes, we think exactly alike there. I'm an Eagles fan, so I know plenty about cheering for the underdog. I grew up wanting a woman like that, someone invisible, so to speak. I wasn't really attracted much to girls that get loads of attention or make tons of money. I always wanted a quiet life with that shy, reserved person who is pretty much overlooked by others.

Hanako isn't real but I'm sure there's a girl in Japan like her. :) But the true question remains, of who my other half truly is. I must become stronger and find out who she is, then go for her with all I've got.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Sun May 12, 2013 4:04 pm

I remember that scene. She got really quiet for a minute before she said anything. Its probably where the "You only think of me as someone who needs protecting" thing came from.
Yup, while Hanako was busy opening up to him, Hisao put a hand on her shoulder and said "Don't worry, I'll protect you." That pretty much makes Hanako make up her mind about Hisao's motives though she doesn't show it. If he offers to spend time with her in town the day after, he'll get her doubting her thoughts again. If he doesn't, her conclusions will keep smoldering until Hisao confirms them at the worst possible moment.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Tue May 14, 2013 5:18 am

Seriously, Hanako's bad end is like a PPT to me. Totally flatlines my entire mental process.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed May 15, 2013 12:38 am

Hanako's behavior in her bad ending is of a classic passive personality who's held in her feelings for way too long. If she had confronted Lilly and Hisao in the beginning, her reaction wouldn't have been so explosive. By being passive, she's let her emotions get out of control. all those frustrations built up over time and when Hisao says the wrong thing at the wrong time, her built up anger finally boils over into an uncontrolled rage.

Things could go in a lot of directions at this point.

a) Hanako feels miserable and decides that there must be something wrong with her for people to treat her this way and decides to isolate herself even further from her classmates.

b) Hisao and Lilly talk about what happened, and one of them, probably Lilly goes to Hanako to apologize and attempt to mend their friendship.

c) Least likely is that Hanako herself goes to Hisao to apologize for her outburst.

I like to think that if someone can swallow their pride enough to come forward and apologize, their friendships can be saved.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Dream » Wed May 15, 2013 4:07 am

^ I admit i'm surprised you didn't pick a chance to shit on Hisao there.

Somewhat on-topic, something that has always bothered me about both Hanako's route and Hanako fans is the tendency of both of focusing on how damaged Hanako is and how that defines her as a character, rather than any legitimate traits or virtue of her own. Where as Shizune or Lilly get remembered by traits like "leader" or "refined" respectively, Hanako always gets remembered by things like "very damaged", which isn't really a trait. I'm not very sure why, but that has always bothered me.
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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed May 15, 2013 4:41 am

If anyones interested in how low self-esteem effects people, I suggest this book. http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Chain-Se ... 0966431588 it's really done a lot to help me understand myself, and in a lot of cases, how Hanako might think about herself and others.

Dream wrote:^ I admit i'm surprised you didn't pick a chance to shit on Hisao there.

Somewhat on-topic, something that has always bothered me about both Hanako's route and Hanako fans is the tendency of both of focusing on how damaged Hanako is and how that defines her as a character, rather than any legitimate traits or virtue of her own. Where as Shizune or Lilly get remembered by traits like "leader" or "refined" respectively, Hanako always gets remembered by things like "very damaged", which isn't really a trait. I'm not very sure why, but that has always bothered me.
I don't mean to jump on Hisao so much. I just have a hard time blaming Hanako for what happened.

The problem with Hanako is we find out so little about her during her arc. From what I've been able to find out, shes a bit of a fantasy lover, she enjoys reading, and games. She can be child-like and is probably a bit of an old-fashioned romantic at heart.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Dream » Wed May 15, 2013 4:51 am

pandaphil wrote:The problem with Hanako is we find out so little about her during her arc. From what I've been able to find out, shes a bit of a fantasy lover, she enjoys reading, and games. She can be child-like and is probably a bit of an old-fashioned romantic at heart.
There is indeed that small dissatisfaction with not knowing much about Hanako. Which makes sense of course given Hanako's personality and honesty being one of the router's main themes (or so i think...). I do find Hanako much more cynical/misantropic and not too much of a romantic compared to your interpretation, though. I also always wanted to assume she had some artistic inclinations but that's quite likely projection.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by pandaphil » Wed May 15, 2013 5:54 am

You're probably right, she probably is a lot more bitter/cynical than we get to see. And I imagine there are a a lot of times when shes alone that shes very hard on herself. I can see her lying in bed asking herself why shes so pathetic, or stupid, or why she can't do anything right when she makes a mistake. But since shes comfortable around Lilly/Hisao, we don't really get to see that side of her nature.

The romantic side is projection on my part. Plus I base it on her fondness for dolls, and the fact that all the clothes we see her wearing has bits of lace and ribbons on it. Also her last line in the story just seems like something a sentimental person would say.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: Dissapointed with Hanako's Arc

Post by Guest Poster » Wed May 15, 2013 6:16 am

I don't mean to jump on Hisao so much. I just have a hard time blaming Hanako for what happened.
Word of God says both were at fault for what happened during the bad end. Just like both did their best to achieve the good end after their epically failed first time.
Somewhat on-topic, something that has always bothered me about both Hanako's route and Hanako fans is the tendency of both of focusing on how damaged Hanako is and how that defines her as a character, rather than any legitimate traits or virtue of her own. Where as Shizune or Lilly get remembered by traits like "leader" or "refined" respectively, Hanako always gets remembered by things like "very damaged", which isn't really a trait. I'm not very sure why, but that has always bothered me.
One of the main themes of the route is the fact that Hanako eventually ended up defining herself by her condition and Hisao's realisation that he has allowed his condition to do the same for him. This understanding that he and Hanako are two sides of the same coin allows them to move past that stage.

The reason that Lilly's and Shizune's personality is so independant of their condition is because they had all their life to adjust to it and they're pretty comfortable with their limitations by the time Hisao meets them. After Hanako left the hospital, others defined her by her condition until she ended up being afraid to show any part of herself...both physically and emotionally. What Hisao first sees upon meeting her (the damaged shrinking violet) is pretty much what everyone at Yamaku sees (Miki and Hanako's hallmate confirm this) with the slight exception of Lilly. Hanako's condition HAS become a huge part of her, so you can't really blame others for mentioning that as her defining trait...it pretty much is despite Hanako hating that fact. What little we learn about her are mostly blink-and-you-miss-it moments. She likes reading, she likes playing games, she's playfully competitive (but not obsessively like Shizune) and can even be a bit playful with supreme effort. She likes singing, experimenting with cooking (with mixed results), using computers and cute/girly things. She's sweet and selfless at her best moments, but bitter and cynical at her worst. She's very fragile yet resistent at the same time...easy to crack, but impossible to break. And she's fairly child-like, especially compared to the mature Lilly. Part of Hanako IS the broken girl you end up scaring off in the library and part of her is that other side she barely shows to others. At the good end, Hisao gets to know both sides of her.
is probably a bit of an old-fashioned romantic at heart
I'm not really sure about that. Many activities I associate with romanticism tend to clash with Hanako as I know her. I'm talking stuff like having a slow romantic dinner, long comfortable silences, loving stares...that kind of thing. Silences are hardly ever completely comfortable with Hanako and she's uncomfortable with stares.
But since shes comfortable around Lilly/Hisao, we don't really get to see that side of her nature.
The last scene and the scene where she and Hisao have a drink in the city (plus the bad end) do plenty to show Hanako's misantropy and cynicism, as well as her lack of self-worth.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

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