Yamaku Book Club (20200803 Before Yamaku)

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Blank Mage
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by Blank Mage » Tue May 06, 2014 12:48 pm

Agh, tough pick, he writes all of his characters so well. I think Rin is the most fun to discuss, though.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by dewelar » Tue May 06, 2014 12:55 pm

Blank Mage wrote:Agh, tough pick, he writes all of his characters so well. I think Rin is the most fun to discuss, though.
Agreed. I feel like the Rin story has the most substance to it. However, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to cover these in the order they were written (since each builds on the last) and take on Shizune's first.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by Blank Mage » Tue May 06, 2014 1:32 pm

dewelar wrote:Agreed. I feel like the Rin story has the most substance to it. However, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to cover these in the order they were written (since each builds on the last) and take on Shizune's first.
Well, if we're covering all of them, then yes. I was under the impression we were picking just one.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by dewelar » Tue May 06, 2014 1:49 pm

Blank Mage wrote:
dewelar wrote:Agreed. I feel like the Rin story has the most substance to it. However, I wonder if it wouldn't be best to cover these in the order they were written (since each builds on the last) and take on Shizune's first.
Well, if we're covering all of them, then yes. I was under the impression we were picking just one.
*nods* I was just thinking that, given that all the stories are interconnected, it would be like reviewing With a Tangled Skein outside the context of the rest of Incarnations of Immortality.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by brythain » Tue May 06, 2014 2:08 pm

I wasn't sure what to say about this selection, because I remember reading a discussion about whether recent works should be discussed, and also whether incomplete works should be discussed. I guess the big mess I've cooked up is mostly done, although I'm still garnishing the dish, so to speak. I am truly honoured (there's no way to say this without sounding cliched, I suppose) by the choice.

Just a note for those who haven't bothered with the master index, the sequence of writing was: Shizune-Lilly-Emi-Hanako-Rin-(Misha)-(Rika). I'm fine with anything, although I do have the auctorial fondness for doing things the way the author intended… :D — I also agree Rin is pretty substantial, but that's just like her arc: there's a lot to think and argue about.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by Sea » Tue May 06, 2014 4:03 pm

brythain wrote:I wasn't sure what to say about this selection, because I remember reading a discussion about whether recent works should be discussed, and also whether incomplete works should be discussed. I guess the big mess I've cooked up is mostly done, although I'm still garnishing the dish, so to speak. I am truly honoured (there's no way to say this without sounding cliched, I suppose) by the choice.

Just a note for those who haven't bothered with the master index, the sequence of writing was: Shizune-Lilly-Emi-Hanako-Rin-(Misha)-(Rika). I'm fine with anything, although I do have the auctorial fondness for doing things the way the author intended… :D — I also agree Rin is pretty substantial, but that's just like her arc: there's a lot to think and argue about.
Do you mind us reviewing them? I can give you more time if you'd like to touch everything up, or if you'd like to recommend an order. If not, We'll do Rin and poll after that to see if we want to do another.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by brythain » Tue May 06, 2014 7:04 pm

Sea wrote:
brythain wrote:I wasn't sure what to say about this selection, because I remember reading a discussion about whether recent works should be discussed, and also whether incomplete works should be discussed. I guess the big mess I've cooked up is mostly done, although I'm still garnishing the dish, so to speak. I am truly honoured (there's no way to say this without sounding cliched, I suppose) by the choice.

Just a note for those who haven't bothered with the master index, the sequence of writing was: Shizune-Lilly-Emi-Hanako-Rin-(Misha)-(Rika). I'm fine with anything, although I do have the auctorial fondness for doing things the way the author intended… :D — I also agree Rin is pretty substantial, but that's just like her arc: there's a lot to think and argue about.
Do you mind us reviewing them? I can give you more time if you'd like to touch everything up, or if you'd like to recommend an order. If not, We'll do Rin and poll after that to see if we want to do another.
I've no objections! It will be interesting to see how this works out… :) To be exact, it's the readers who should be recommending an order.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by forgetmenot » Tue May 06, 2014 7:55 pm

I agree with dewelar. I think Rin's story has the most substance, and is a good jumping-off point. From there, we can either continue on with another girl or read something else, depending on the community reaction.

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: On the Couch)

Post by Sea » Wed May 07, 2014 3:48 pm

forgetmenot wrote:I agree with dewelar. I think Rin's story has the most substance, and is a good jumping-off point. From there, we can either continue on with another girl or read something else, depending on the community reaction.
Right then!

We shall lead with:

After The Dream (Rin's Story) – Epilogue by brythain (complete, ca. 14700 words)
PoV: Rin; Pairings: Hisao x Emi; Hideaki x Hanako; Begins: after Lilly's neutral ending
Remarks:

If there is sufficient support we'll move on to others, but the meeting shall be in 2 days, on the 9th. Happy Readings!
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by poopooface » Fri May 09, 2014 11:49 am

I like Rin's route in this fanfic because they make her personality spot on. They also use the really cool symbolism of the butterfly. It's the only route I actually like in After the Dream.
Hanako>Lilly>Emi>Rin>Shizune

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by Comrade » Fri May 09, 2014 12:15 pm

poopooface wrote:I like Rin's route in this fanfic because they make her personality spot on. They also use the really cool symbolism of the butterfly. It's the only route I actually like in After the Dream.
"They"?
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by bhtooefr » Fri May 09, 2014 12:24 pm

"They" is the only universally accepted gender neutral pronoun for a human in English. ("It" is considered dehumanizing, "ze" and others get a "wtf does that even mean" reaction.)

In any case, I'll just remark that the Miki x Rin thing still makes no sense whatsoever to me. Yes, they're both missing appendages, but their personalities just don't seem compatible at all to me.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by Comrade » Fri May 09, 2014 12:28 pm

bhtooefr wrote:"They" is the only universally accepted gender neutral pronoun for a human in English. ("It" is considered dehumanizing, "ze" and others get a "wtf does that even mean" reaction
Or you could just use the given name O.o
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by Mahorfeus » Fri May 09, 2014 1:08 pm

bhtooefr wrote:"They" is the only universally accepted gender neutral pronoun for a human in English. ("It" is considered dehumanizing, "ze" and others get a "wtf does that even mean" reaction.)
It's a matter of perspective really. Some find "it" derogatory since it equates an individual to an object, though I've seen it used without any such connotations. I dislike "they" since it can be even more confusing. I guess we can chalk it down to gender-neutral pronouns being confusing in general.


Now, as for the story... just as a disclaimer, I cannot really call myself a fan of brythain's collective story as a whole. That isn't to knock on his (I think I have better than a 50/50 chance on this one) writing ability; for all intents and purposes, his writing is fine, technically. The vignette style in general actually kind of grew on me because of his works. I just don't like the future he has envisioned for the Hisao and the girls of Yamaku. Not because it is sad, or depressing, but because at times it is just plain surreal, at times failing to suspend my disbelief.

That being said, Rin's story was (perhaps appropriately) especially odd to me. Her relationship to Miki, as bhtooefr already pointed out, did not particularly work for me. I mean, weird relationships can happen in real life, but I suppose I just didn't feel any synergy between them.

And speaking of dehumanizing, the entire part with Rin's "gift" kind of rustled my jimmies, so to speak. That they (not you, brythain :P) felt the need to give her arms, when she has done just fine all her life without them, felt extremely awkward. The way Miki in particular pretty much shamed her into accepting them, especially. It's not like with Emi or Miki, who lost their respective appendages. Rin was born without her arms, and that became a core part of her identity. I always thought that fellow Yamaku students would understand that not everything that is "broken" needs to be "fixed," but with the level of technology in this story, it seems like that mindset became obsolete.
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The verdict is (finally) in:
Hanako > Rin > Emi > Lilly = Shizune

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Now Reading: After the Dream: Rin's St

Post by brythain » Fri May 09, 2014 7:29 pm

Just a few points:

1. Suspension of disbelief: any failure there is certainly my fault; several people have commented in the threads about improbable events. I don't mind having people point out the problems, because it can only make me a better writer. :)

2. Rin x Miki: actually, who does Rin have a psychological synergy with? In this case, Miki's rescued her once, and they've been room-mates for a while. It's easier to see it from Miki's end—Miki admires Rin for making do without arms at all, while Miki struggles with the loss of just one hand. Actually, it's hard to think of Rin having a long-term relationship with anyone, except for the fact that… Rin is Rin. I've tried to supply some reasons; again, maybe not enough.

3. Rin's arms: Rin actually is angry at the idea of being fixed that way; however, the idea of Rin wanting to be able to hug people is canon, and Rin is also pragmatic about trying out new things. Hence, prosthetic arms as additional tools for new functionality might not be as great a stretch. You can tell they're prosthetics; normal arms don't have engraving tools built into the fingers, for example.

4. Tech levels: apart from the Zelazny upload process (a hat-tip to the classic 'Lord of Light'), all technologies used are extrapolations from existing tech—the biggest stretch is the ruthenium bit, which is extrapolated from current research. But this is a big issue: in a decade's time (2024) or farther down the road, should compensation for disabilities become fully available, would the disabled or less-abled make use of it? The jury is out on that, with pretty vociferous debate occurring in the First World, but most others accepting enhancement.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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