Yamaku Book Club (20200803 Before Yamaku)

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brythain
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by brythain » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:24 am

d2r wrote:I suspect people have difficulty writing Rin because even in her own route, she's fairly enigmatic. I can imagine that it makes it hard to get inside her head effectively - it's hard to simulate a train of thought so alien to your own. Obviously it's not impossible, but it makes her challenging to write in the first person, and still kind of tricky to write in the third (i.e. from someone else's perspective) without making her just random or something.
In terms of consistency, I'd like to think that there must be an internal logic as well as an internal library of images, where Rin is concerned. Her thoughts are consistent, they follow a pattern, and I'm sure the devs had that in mind when writing her. Similarly, images of butterflies, clouds, the sky... they are frequently invoked by Rin, even while she paints nothing of the sort. So what she makes and what she sees are two different things; perhaps she is frustrated because she wants butterflies but gets distorted human faces instead.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by brythain » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:28 am

Fardels wrote: I am trying to develop something from Rin's POV, and it's hard going. I think I may have found an answer, but whether I can translate into a story is as yet undetermined.
It would be interesting at some future time to see how you found your answer. :)
dewelar wrote:[Thought Experiment] ... Don't know if that will help, but it's worth a try, right?
Actually, I sort of reverse-engineered the VN material by reading it until I could 'predict' Rin's responses and make ones of my own that seemed right. One practical exercise that seemed to help was to drink a lot of coffee, then sit quietly in a sunlit spot in a relatively dark room and talk to myself. Results were mixed but not that bad. :D
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by dewelar » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:45 pm

brythain wrote:
dewelar wrote:[Thought Experiment] ... Don't know if that will help, but it's worth a try, right?
Actually, I sort of reverse-engineered the VN material by reading it until I could 'predict' Rin's responses and make ones of my own that seemed right. One practical exercise that seemed to help was to drink a lot of coffee, then sit quietly in a sunlit spot in a relatively dark room and talk to myself. Results were mixed but not that bad. :D
*nods* I do think your Rin sometimes strays into being a little too...sophisticated maybe? Still, it's far enough inside the ballpark for me not to complain generally. And, yes, as she says in the VN, the sky is pretty much her center, so sticking to that as a guide gets you at least onto Lansdowne Street.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by Fardels » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:55 pm

It would be interesting at some future time to see how you found your answer. :)
Both you and Dewelar anticipated me to a great degree. It's another form of reverse engineering. I would have said a better parallel is the discovery of Pluto. She reacts in unexpected ways - the trick is to identify the factor(s) that cause the unexpected reactions. I've got a theory on that, and I'm trying to make a story out of it. If I do it from her POV, it means going inside her head, and I'm not confident I could pull that off. If I do it from somebody else's, I have to make a plausible tale for the discovery - not an easy task with as closed a personality. Some folks have seen Rin in terms of high-functioning autism, or some other subtractive personality condition. But perhaps it is an enhancement instead - I'd like to think so. I've made two tries from different POVs and hate them both enough to have abandoned them.

I've done the sunlight+darkened room+talk to myself act (but minus coffee) enough that the dog ignores it now. It does help. With many things, actually.

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by brythain » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:11 am

Fardels wrote:I would have said a better parallel is the discovery of Pluto. She reacts in unexpected ways - the trick is to identify the factor(s) that cause the unexpected reactions.
That's very Mutou-esque. It's similar to the very helpful advice he gives Hisao somewhere in Emi's route.
dewelar wrote:I do think your Rin sometimes strays into being a little too...sophisticated maybe?
Ah, that's probably a failing on my part—overthinking as I try to disappear down the rabbit-hole of someone else's mind. But in AtD, she does have interesting parents. :)
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by dewelar » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:01 pm

brythain wrote:
dewelar wrote:I do think your Rin sometimes strays into being a little too...sophisticated maybe?
Ah, that's probably a failing on my part—overthinking as I try to disappear down the rabbit-hole of someone else's mind. But in AtD, she does have interesting parents. :)
*nod* Yeah, I think that kind of thing is unavoidable sometimes. Like I said, it's nothing to get worked up about. On another note...
brythain wrote:So what she makes and what she sees are two different things; perhaps she is frustrated because she wants butterflies but gets distorted human faces instead.
I was just rereading the last few posts on this thread, and I don't think this is the case. Remember the sketch Rin draws of Hisao in her route -- she's darn good at drawing conventionally as well. It's just that when she draws what she wants to draw, it comes out in Impressionist style. That's why, if you can say she has an arc in Developments, it's about her learning to take her impressions and be able to apply them more specifically, such as finally putting the "Rin" in "Rin'pa" :D.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by brythain » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:16 am

dewelar wrote:
brythain wrote:So what she makes and what she sees are two different things; perhaps she is frustrated because she wants butterflies but gets distorted human faces instead.
I was just rereading the last few posts on this thread, and I don't think this is the case. Remember the sketch Rin draws of Hisao in her route -- she's darn good at drawing conventionally as well. It's just that when she draws what she wants to draw, it comes out in Impressionist style. That's why, if you can say she has an arc in Developments, it's about her learning to take her impressions and be able to apply them more specifically, such as finally putting the "Rin" in "Rin'pa" :D.
What I do remember of that sketch is that Rin thinks it's not quite right, but Hisao is impressed. So perhaps it's more accurate to say that her painting is a bit like her speech; what she wants to communicate and what she ends up communicating... there is a gap that needs work. And as writers, that gap is also a challenge to us.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Currently Undergoing a Sea Change)

Post by dewelar » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:28 am

brythain wrote:
dewelar wrote:
brythain wrote:So what she makes and what she sees are two different things; perhaps she is frustrated because she wants butterflies but gets distorted human faces instead.
I was just rereading the last few posts on this thread, and I don't think this is the case. Remember the sketch Rin draws of Hisao in her route -- she's darn good at drawing conventionally as well. It's just that when she draws what she wants to draw, it comes out in Impressionist style. That's why, if you can say she has an arc in Developments, it's about her learning to take her impressions and be able to apply them more specifically, such as finally putting the "Rin" in "Rin'pa" :D.
What I do remember of that sketch is that Rin thinks it's not quite right, but Hisao is impressed. So perhaps it's more accurate to say that her painting is a bit like her speech; what she wants to communicate and what she ends up communicating... there is a gap that needs work. And as writers, that gap is also a challenge to us.
Yeah, I'll definitely buy that :) . I also think it means that, like many of us as writers, she's her own harshest critic, and is thus never quite satisfied with her work.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Meeting Begins 02/03 Apr 2015

Post by brythain » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:04 am

Meeting is open!

Current book is:
Prelude To Another Future Yet — by Fardels
It's divided into three posts: [Chunk 1] [Chunk 2] [Chunk 3]

All are welcome to the discussion! :D

PMs to me suggesting new readings are also always welcome. :wink:
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by PrymaL » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:11 am

Brilliant read. Completely different to what I would normally read, but it had me captivated and was set in this weird 'God like control' over the world.

All in all I enjoyed it

Well done to Fardel and keep up the good work

9/10

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by Alpacalypse » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:43 am

Little bit vague for my tastes being the kind of person who likes to have everything spelled out for them 'cos I'm a nitwit, but it was still an enjoyable read.
Not entirely sure what the purpose of the ravens was, but oh well.

Besides that, good read overall. Nice work Fardels :)
Misha running a fitness programme. Ok then
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by LorSquirrel » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:34 am

Pretty much what Alpa said. And yes, those ravens confused me as to why they're there.

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:37 pm

Alpacalypse wrote:Not entirely sure what the purpose of the ravens was, but oh well.
Yatagarasu is a mythical creature in Japanese Shinto lore. It acts as a messenger of the gods.
Surprisingly there isn't an English version of the wikipedia page, so I translated the German one.
(In my experience the translation is more legible than when translating from Japanese :-)
More comments later.
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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by Alpacalypse » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote: Yatagarasu is a mythical creature in Japanese Shinto lore. It acts as a messenger of the gods.
Surprisingly there isn't an English version of the wikipedia page, so I translated the German one.
(In my experience the translation is more legible than when translating from Japanese :-)
More comments later.
*Nods*
Gotcha. The whole thing makes a lot more sense now.
Thanks, Mirage.
I am the harbinger of your destruction... By herbivorous, mountain dwelling quadrupeds... fear me
---
I also write now, apparently. Since everyone else does it, I'm putting it here
---
I have also discovered that I'm a decent proofreader. Anybody with SPaG problems is free to PM me their work for a thorough analysis and/or evisceration. Depends on how I'm feeling.

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Re: Yamaku Book Club (Meeting 02/03 Apr 2015 onwards)

Post by Solistor » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:26 am

I liked the mysticism, and the references to the Gods being KS devs was pretty amusing. The ravens/Yatagarasu tying everything together was neato, but I can't say I really snjoyed the Deus ex Machina, even if that may have been the point. I was a little confused at first, and had to re-read a bit to truly understand some of the scenes, but all in all it was interesting to say the least.

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