OC "Neko" - Route [reconsidered]

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Oddball
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by Oddball » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:21 pm

Ah, come on Neko, put the story back. It was rough, unpolished, but there was still quite a bit of good in it. You show some promise if you listen to criticism instead of just acting like everyone is telling you you aren't good enough.

Nobody is "good enough" at first. We all have to start somewhere. If somebody points out an error, look at it, see if there's anything you can do to improve it, and move on.

Hell, everytime I post a chapter, I get a big old laundry list of things I've done wrong, but that doesn't stop me. :lol:

If nothing else, looking back at the old topic two or three stories down the line will give you a good way to judge just exactly how much you've improved. If you're really unsure of your abilities, start small. Do some simple one-shots until you get a better feel for what you're going for.
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Troy
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by Troy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:26 pm

This had a lot of potential shame to see it gone, i think it just needed more time 44 chapters in 4 days seems like a massive amount. Also the constructive feedback people provide ( (*kuch* mirage ) and more) is here to help you become a better writer just like dewelar said.
I think if you had given this more time to fix and edit your stuff you would have made an excellent story.

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Feurox
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by Feurox » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:20 pm

I didn't really get the chance to read much of this but you shouldn't give up!

"There is no failure except in no longer trying" - Elbert Hubbard

Disappointed to see you give up, :'(

The beautiful thing about criticism is that you can read it, smile and say thank you, then decide wether or not you think it is valid and then act upon it if so feel you need to, I really hate to say it, but taking criticism, especially on this forum, as a personal attack is really really sad. It is only ever there to help you get better, Sometimes it can be hyper critical, but just because the critic doesn't state any positives doesn't mean there aren't any, in fact it's often the opposite, If everyone just said you were amazing and stroked your ego you wouldn't improve.

End of rant. :D
Last edited by Feurox on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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sanduba
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by sanduba » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:20 pm

noooo D:

I wasn't able to read it, but I was going to once I finish tons of other fanfics I'm reading here
Best story:
Hanako > Rin > Lilly > Emi > Shizune

best girl:
Lilly > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Rin

Eh, that's my opinion.

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Mournful3ch0
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by Mournful3ch0 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:24 pm

Hey NekoDude, if you come back and read this I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if my critique came off as negative rather than constructive. I meant it when I said that I'd love to see the end of the story, but alas, the cuts were taken while I was away and wasn't given the opportunity. I just wanted to say that having the drive to write tens of thousands of words in a matter of days/weeks is quite an impressive feat in and of itself (in my opinion) and I think you'd go far if you were more open to criticism.

It's a shame to see the story go. However, it is more of a loss to quit writing because of a bit of harsh or overzealous feedback.

Anyway, take care and good luck in your future endeavors.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:30 pm

Well, you stated several times that you welcome constructive criticism and feedback, even if you didn't act on it.
If you felt offended by it, you'd just have had to say the word, and I'd have stayed completely away from your thread.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Sore wa himitsu desu.

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NekoDude
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by NekoDude » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:34 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:Well, you stated several times that you welcome constructive criticism and feedback, even if you didn't act on it.
If you felt offended by it, you'd just have had to say the word, and I'd have stayed completely away from your thread.
Saying "it's a first draft and doesn't belong here" isn't constructive. That is what made me pull it, frankly.

Besides, I'm planning a MASSIVE rewrite. Screw doing a "route". I'm doing it George R. R. Martin style -- each chapter will be told from the point of view of a different character. It allows a lot more insight into each character when I can choose who is narrating, as well as making characters more likeable (because they tend to portray themselves positively).

Until then, "the balcony is closed" as Siskel & Ebert used to say.
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TheGoatman
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by TheGoatman » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:39 pm

So, it's not cancelled per say, it's being rewritten from scratch? Cancelled implies it's over and done with but you just said you're redoing it. To be honest all of my attempts at writing have looked so bad(to me anyways) that I didn't have the heart to waste space on the forums with them. I attempted to throw one out on forums but after rewriting it several times and still hating it I said screw it and took it down.

Something worth mentioning however - if you can't take criticism or suggestions, however brusquely they might be delivered, then you may wish to be more careful when posting stories. The writers here are friendly and give quality advice, and I've gotten some really nice info from some of them here, especially Mirage, however I know all too well the perils of unpolished work. If you write something down, check it once or twice and throw it on forums for the sake of getting it there, that's good! It means I can read it faster, however the initial draft of posts will receive more heat than say, a polished and rewritten chapter. No matter how many times you check it you will undoubtedly make a mistake or two, which is where the main benefit of having it posted on forums comes in, free proofreading and feedback.

I did not have the pleasure of reading this story(as, due to being let down by attempting to follow stories that get abandoned/update once a month, I tend to prefer completed works) but from the looks of the comments, it sounds like you were just rushing posts. Which to be honest is something I'd prefer compared to once a month perfect posts(you know who you are) however keep in mind if you take a chapter - reread it a few times and check through it and throw it on forums, you will undoubtedly make mistakes. Or, you could be like me, and write it from scratch in the forum post itself and edit it a dozen times within a few minutes then hate yourself afterwards because you forgot what your plot was. But, without mistakes you won't improve or get anywhere. While it's true that advice/criticism can often times be considered brutal if not downright insulting, if they don't point out those mistakes, you will continue to make them until someone else does, and perhaps not as nicely.

This is the end of my bleating, have a nice day!
I'm just a rusty old goat and a poor writer by anyone's standards, so no need to take my advice to heart, and when you do, take a handful of salt with it.

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NekoDude
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by NekoDude » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 pm

TheGoatman wrote:So, it's not cancelled per say, it's being rewritten from scratch? Cancelled implies it's over and done with but you just said you're redoing it.
It's cancelled as a "route", which implies a single POV (usually Hisao's), and sometimes multiple endings. It is being rewritten in much the same way a book is rewritten to make a screenplay -- and just like a screen rewrite, the end result may or may not be fairly faithful to the original. I am also abandoning chapter titles for simply the name of the character whose turn it is to narrate. Lately I've been completely engrossed with the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series, and having finished "A Dance With Dragons" and after re-watching all three seasons of "Game of Thrones", I've decided there are some enormous advantages to the narrative style used there. Rotating through the POV characters allows the opportunity to reveal their reasoning, opinions, and motivations, without necessarily bringing them to the notice of other characters. It also allows for misdirection, as a character can only narrate their own perception of reality (which often differs considerably from the truth). It also allows for the reverse -- having characters lie to one another without misdirecting the reader. It allows characters to be more likeable, since they have a strong tendency to reflect themselves positively in their own inner monologue.

Here, have a sample chapter.
-------------------------------------
NEKO

What kind of twisted, rat-bastard psychotic is hammering at 7 am on a Sunday? I try to pull my spare pillow over my head, but I realize the pounding is coming from inside my head, not outside the room. Dust motes dance in a laser beam of sunlight streaming through my window, and the light glints green and white as it refracts through something at the corner of my eye. Rolling back slightly to get a better look, I see that there is a bottle of Midori on the nightstand, about two thirds empty. It has a fallen brother on the floor. I also notice that there is something – no, make that someone – lying behind me.

Miki Miura is blissfully unaware of the ruckus in my head, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to suffer through this indignity alone. I toss back the covers and slowly raise myself to a vertical position, taking great care not to accelerate the inevitable nausea that comes with a solid hangover. After glancing down to make sure I’m not completely exposing myself to the world, I hop across the room and draw the curtains tightly shut.

Much better. At least now my head is being split from merely one direction rather than two.

While assembling myself for the morning pilgrimage to the bathroom, I see a third, unidentified empty bottle has rolled into a corner. I don’t remember drinking that much last night, but frankly, I’m a little fuzzy on the whole event. I stop to conceal the dead soldiers in a paper bag and toss the partial into my fridge. I set my alarm clock to roughly emulate a 747 at takeoff two minutes from now and hightail it out of there as fast as one good leg will take me.

I’m still brushing the taste of death out of my mouth when the bathroom door opens.

“The fuck was that, gaylord?”

I keep brushing, spit, rinse, spit again. “Oh my, did I wake up before the alarm again? Sorry about that.”

She pushes her way past me toward the shower area, pausing long enough to thump me on the back of the head with her stump. “Have I told you lately that you totally suck?”

“Only daily. Or when you want me to suck harder.”

She brushes her teeth in the shower, which is a damn fine sight well worth the waste of water, then lathers up. I feast my eyes on her graceful and athletic (yet still nicely bouncy) curves and bronzed tone and realize I haven’t forgotten that many of last night’s events. I hang my nightshirt over a hook and heel-toe my way into the shower as well. Hopping on wet tiles with a hangover is likely to earn me a concussion.

“Make way for the Dread Pirate Rogers,” I say as I slide up against her back. “Or not.”

She turns to face me and makes a show of raising her arms behind her head and stretching. I’d kill for a figure like that, and she knows it. Her 15 cm height advantage over me works to her further advantage as she flaunts her assets.

Although the past year has seen her make great strides at living with one hand, she’s still got some catching up to do when it comes to creative use of a stump. Turning my short stature to my advantage, I take the opportunity to remind her of that fact. Her moans seem to indicate that she appreciates the lesson, but she interposes her hand and whispers, “Not here, not now. I have to check on Snoozu.”

“Have I told you lately that you totally suck?”
Art is never finished, only abandoned.
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dewelar
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by dewelar » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:51 pm

Rotating PoV...where have I seen that before ;) ?

Seriously, I'd be interested to see another person's take on the concept w/r/t KS. I never thought I invented the idea or anything, after all (I was actually partially inspired by Sisterhood, and have never read anything of Martin's - not my style - so did not know about that aspect of Game of Thrones).

Good luck with the rewrite! Looking forward to reading it!
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Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by bhtooefr » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:01 pm

I think I've become addicted to rotating POV, and I'll blame Guest Poster and dewelar for it. It's a great format when used right. Keep the focus on the right character, so you don't reveal too much, but you get to reveal some things earlier. And, I personally like the "keep the characters in the dark, reader in the know" strategy.

And now I've got something in the hopper myself that uses it (although not as formally as Like Fire and Powder did).

Good luck with the rewrite, let me know if you need any feedback on it.
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TheGoatman
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by TheGoatman » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:04 pm

NekoDude wrote:
What kind of twisted, rat-bastard psychotic
Just my opinion - psychotic rat-bastard sounds better, rat-bastard psychotic just doesn't sound right.
I'm just a rusty old goat and a poor writer by anyone's standards, so no need to take my advice to heart, and when you do, take a handful of salt with it.

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NekoDude
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by NekoDude » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:52 pm

TheGoatman wrote:
NekoDude wrote:
What kind of twisted, rat-bastard psychotic
Just my opinion - psychotic rat-bastard sounds better, rat-bastard psychotic just doesn't sound right.
It's a reference to this:
“What kind of rat bastard psychotic would play that song- right now, at this moment?”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
I did change it a bit in the working edit (for example the hyphen is gone) but it will remain rat bastard psychotic.
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edruil
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by edruil » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:35 am

I do hope you keep writing this, and I hope you post it here for us to read. What you gave us was only a short sample, to be fair, but I can already tell that the pacing and characterization seem to be much better than in the original route chapters. You might be right that this style will work much better for you and for the story you want to tell. Keep at it! I'll look forward to reading it.

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dewelar
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Re: OC "Neko" - Route [cancelled]

Post by dewelar » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:21 pm

Backing up to a few days ago, I just realized that Miyagi cannot be the English teacher for the 3rd-years after all, because she's canonically female (per "Promise of Time") and the English teacher is canonically male (per "Little Wing"). Sorry about that :( .
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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