Developments (Post-Lilly NE) [Complete, 2015-08-11]

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cake307
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by cake307 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:01 am

That cliffhanger though. In serious mode, another great chapter, and I really liked how well you managed to capture Lilly's typical thought process. It seems like she's still the character who's changed least, but recent events have pushed her over that threshold and now she's muddling along trying to figure out who she is all over again. It's pretty much just a typical teenage finding of self thing, but you did a fantastic job of putting it in Lilly's perspective, where it might as well be nearly the end of the world. Bravo once again!

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hyroglyphixs
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by hyroglyphixs » Thu May 08, 2014 4:43 am

Oh boy. I loved Lilly's POV. The conversation with Shizune and Akira really showed her inner turmoil. I especially loved the civil-ness between the two cousins :)

Besides that, great writing as usual. I've said this before, but your writing style is awesome and I'm always anticipating the next chapter.

PS. Still cheering for Lilly :P
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emmjay
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by emmjay » Thu May 08, 2014 5:13 am

I really enjoyed the dialogue in this chapter, particularly that between Lilly and Narumi. I just love the formal, somewhat old-fashioned flavor to their conversation. There's an almost haiku-like quality to some of Narumi's lines.
I also really dig the conversation with Shizune. Nice touch with the Keiko cameo (that is the same Keiko from Shizune's route, right?); not just the cameo itself, but the reason she's there instead of Misha. Nice to be reminded that Misha isn't just Shizune's mouthpiece, and that she doesn't always agree with Shizune.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by bhtooefr » Thu May 08, 2014 5:34 am

I don't even know who to cheer for at this point.

The only thing I know for sure is that Emi needs mental health treatment, despite the stigmas against it in Japan, not a boyfriend. I think at this point even Hanako might be healthier in that regard.
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Blasphemy
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by Blasphemy » Thu May 08, 2014 7:26 am

That ending sounded quite familiar. Nice callback to the one of Chapter 24.
"Hisao?"

I take a deep breath, wondering if I'm really ready for this again. Given my current situation, though, it can't be helped.

"Hi, Lilly."

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monkeywitha6pack
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by monkeywitha6pack » Thu May 08, 2014 11:35 am

bhtooefr wrote:the only thing I know for sure is that Emi needs mental health treatment, despite the stigmas against it in Japan, not a boyfriend. I think at this point even Hanako might be healthier in that regard.
I'm not sure about Emi but with Hanako I think she just needs friends instead of a boyfriend. I mean look at her in her own route, she goes through so much turmoil and depression. Look at her in Lilly's route. She's happy all the time she starts to make even more friends and even is going to go on a trip with them. To me when it comes to cannon info she's better off in Lilly's good end then she is in her own.
Wahahaha~.
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dewelar
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by dewelar » Thu May 08, 2014 11:38 am

As always, thanks to all for the kind words. Also, it's always good to see new folks discovering and enjoying this story :) .
emmjay wrote:I really enjoyed the dialogue in this chapter, particularly that between Lilly and Narumi. I just love the formal, somewhat old-fashioned flavor to their conversation. There's an almost haiku-like quality to some of Narumi's lines.
Cool! I enjoyed writing that scene quite a bit, actually, because it allowed me to explore another dimension of Lilly's.
I also really dig the conversation with Shizune.
Thanks, to you and to others who said similar things. This was the first time I wrote extended dialogue with Shizune, so I was a bit nervous about how it would come across.
Nice touch with the Keiko cameo (that is the same Keiko from Shizune's route, right?)
Yes -- glad someone picked up on that :) . That was one of the reasons I used the surname I did for her, and I hope the author from whom I appropriated it doesn't mind :) .
not just the cameo itself, but the reason she's there instead of Misha. Nice to be reminded that Misha isn't just Shizune's mouthpiece, and that she doesn't always agree with Shizune.
*nods* I have a whole conversation in my head between Misha and Shizune about this that will probably never see the light of day...but then I have a lot of those :( .

And finally...
Oscar Wildecat wrote:
I've been trying as hard as I can not to take this conversation in a direction that will hurt anyone...
It seems that, sometimes, the harder someone tries not to hurt anyone, the more likely they'll end up hurting everyone...including themselves.
QFT.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by Guest Poster » Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 pm

Look at her in Lilly's route. She's happy all the time she starts to make even more friends and even is going to go on a trip with them. To me when it comes to cannon info she's better off in Lilly's good end then she is in her own.
She's not happy all the time. She has a breakdown around her birthday just like in her own route. If you want to compare the two side-by-side you'll notice that in her own route by the time Lilly's about to return, Hanako has a boyfriend AND has confronted some of the deeper issues she has. In Lilly's route, by the time Lilly's about to return to Japan, Hanako's been through a depression and...that's pretty much all. You can say that things start looking up for her after that point, but the same might be true in her own route. It just ends before we can notice it. Also, in Lilly's route, Hanako never sorts out her more deeply-rooted issues. They're kept out of the player's eye in order to prevent them from overshadowing Lilly's problems. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by bhtooefr » Thu May 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Also, I'm not saying that Hanako needs a boyfriend, either.

It's just that in Hanako's case, a boyfriend won't hurt matters, whereas in Emi's case, it might.

And, also, it's implied in the VN, and outright stated in this fiction, that a lot of Hanako's apparent progress was simply Hanako actively faking it to stay out of Lilly and Hisao's way. Of course, a lot of it was also legitimate progress, and some of it was caused by her faking it until she made it.
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Crimson
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by Crimson » Thu May 08, 2014 12:39 pm

Another fantastic chapter. As many before me have said, Lily's inner turmoil has become especially evident in the past 2 chapters in particular. Looking forward to seeing what's to come.

Apologies for the lack of activity regarding the 2nd Interlude piece also, life has just kept me really busy as of late. Haven't had a chance to settle down. Hoping to get on it this month.
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dewelar
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by dewelar » Thu May 08, 2014 12:41 pm

bhtooefr wrote:Of course, a lot of it was also legitimate progress, and some of it was caused by her faking it until she made it.
Ah, finally! I was wondering if/when someone would point this out :) . One of the themes for Hanako in this story is that she's made progress that she doesn't even realize she's made, and in fact denies to herself that she made it.
Crimson wrote:Apologies for the lack of activity regarding the 2nd Interlude piece also, life has just kept me really busy as of late. Haven't had a chance to settle down. Hoping to get on it this month.
No worries. Creativity happens when it happens. The fact that you're doing this at all is an honor.
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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forgetmenot
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by forgetmenot » Thu May 08, 2014 1:25 pm

Excellent chapter. Your writing, as always, is impeccable. I think the thing I appreciate most about how you present your characters is how intimate their internal monologues are. You have a knack for making the reader empathize with everyone, even if they're in direct competition. That's commendable at the very least.

I haven't been able to pin down the nagging feeling I've been getting for the past 10 chapters or so until I read this one, however. Lilly's own thoughts sort of betray the whole crux of what (albeit very minor) issues I'm about to take with the story.

Everyone in your story is painted shades of grey, with complicated reasons and motivations, all stemming from various issues they've had in their respective pasts... everyone except Hisao. This isn't a major fault on its own; the original VN falls prey to the same issues. However, because the original VN's presentation revolves around a singular point of view, anything we learn about these other characters is secondhand. It's similar to how we learn about other people in real life, thus, it enriches the experience when reading the VN.

Once we break that singular point of view, it becomes painfully obvious (especially when you have as good of a character writer as you at the helm) that Hisao just isn't as three-dimensional as the rest of the cast. It's jarring to switch from characters with such nuance and depth - such as Lilly, Hanako, and Emi, who each have their secrets, hangups, hopes and dreams, all which come from very realistic places - to a character like Hisao, who is kind of a blank slate, and his only problems (besides his heart, which takes a backseat in this story) revolve around "which girl should I pick?" Not to say he'd be bad for any one of the girls; he's a nice guy. It's just weird to see a character that was originally created to be a vessel for the player juxtaposed so nakedly against admittedly better, more fully-realized characters.

Funny thing is, I don't really think this is anyone's fault. It's not a problem I (or you, probably) could have predicted would happen. Were I in charge I'd probably have a mild panic attack and then lampshade the fuck out of it (probably by sticking Hisao with Noriko and leaving the girls to work out their problems on their own). At any rate, I still enjoy reading what you've been writing. Who knows? Maybe you're omniscient and you've planned for this to happen. We'll see what develops sorry here in the near future.

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dewelar
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by dewelar » Thu May 08, 2014 2:14 pm

forgetmenot wrote:an interesting analysis.
Admittedly, this was not something I'd considered when I began writing this story, but as the story has gone on it's been on my radar a bit. At this point, Hisao's arc is going where I want it to go, but it did take a while to figure out where that was.

As has been observed repeatedly, in the VN itself much of Hisao's blank slate is written on by whichever girl he winds up pursuing. Since we're working from Lilly's neutral end, that means that he winds up as mostly a passive observer who never got the kick in the metaphorical pants that motivated him to chase her in her good end. Thus, his arc has become about finding a way out of his own passivity (what he calls "being a leaf"). The problem is that now, just as he's starting to find his way to that, everyone around him is unintentionally impeding him from moving forward on that path, so his tabula is definitely still pretty well rasa, and the question now is: what, if anything, will change that? Hopefully you'll find the payoff worthwhile :) .
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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Yukarin
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by Yukarin » Thu May 08, 2014 2:24 pm

ohohoho this is getting hella more interestiiiiiiing

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Mahorfeus
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 40 up 5/

Post by Mahorfeus » Thu May 08, 2014 11:20 pm

Well, Lilly came off as being significantly less miserable as I thought she was going to be. That much is good.

And sometimes I forget that Lilly's route is the one that she and Shizune start to reconcile in. Nice to see that come into play here.
"A very small degree of hope is sufficient to cause the birth of love." -Stendhal
The verdict is (finally) in:
Hanako > Rin > Emi > Lilly = Shizune

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