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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:38 pm
by sanduba
griffon8 wrote:Psht. As far as I'm concerned, if there is a good end and one other end, that other end is automatically the bad end. It's bad compared to the good end, right? And there aren't any other endings for us to compare it to, right? Therefore, bad end.
Touché. Emi's bad ending is not really bad, too.

But, Lilly's bad ending is not an actual ending, it just stops there because Hisao didn't say the right things so he didn't have the epiphany at the end so he didn't go after her. Whoever was the writer for Lilly's path was lazy and didn't want to do an actual bad end, though.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:55 pm
by griffon8
sanduba wrote:Emi's bad ending is not really bad, too.
I thought that was one of the worst. Possibly the worst.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:42 am
by Maradar
My reaction after reading.
Image
Well. This is an insane piece of fiction, in a good way of course. I absolutely love the clusterfuck of what-the-fuckness going on in this story. I really enjoyed the way you portrayed the Satous in a non-assholeish way. Also the conversation between Lilly and Hisao seemed extraordinarily canon. I would like you to write a book.
Sorry if my sentence structure is off, too many feels.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:54 am
by bhtooefr
griffon8 wrote:
sanduba wrote:Emi's bad ending is not really bad, too.
I thought that was one of the worst. Possibly the worst.
One of the worst, just like Shizune's bad ending, Rin's bad AND neutral endings, and Hanako's bad ending (although Hanako's has plenty of room for fix fics afterwards, and her neutral end may be worse in the long run).

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:57 am
by Mirage_GSM
I'm with Griffon on this one:
If there are only two endings and one is better than the other, the other one is bad by default.
If in an ending the two main characters seperate and are both unhappy about it, that ending is a bad one.
If the main character dies, the ending is a bad one.

By that definition the only ending in KS that is neutral is the Hanako one: They didn't even start to date and just stay friends.

As to which ending is not only bad but qualitatively the worst, ... That discussion would derail this thread too much.
Strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be a topic about that yet*, so I guess I'm going to make one.

*just one discussing the manly picnic

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:20 am
by nemz
You're well on your way to turning this into a relationship clusterfuck on the scale of Ranma 1/2. :lol:

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:07 am
by sanduba
Oooh, shit...

This can't be ending well...

Again, I wonder how the hell you intend to finish this.

Also, reading Lilly's parents like this almost feels like non-canon.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:36 pm
by Oscar Wildecat
sanduba wrote:Also, reading Lilly's parents like this almost feels like non-canon.
It does go against the traditional portrayal of Lilly's parents (or at least her father); however, this interpretation does fit quite well with the image of two parents who want their daughters to become leaders, not followers.

One thing I've always keep in mind is that Mr. Satou did marry a western-born woman, so it would not be surprising that find his idea's are not hard line traditionalist. However, that does not preclude him from being a jerk -- in this case, he would be a jerk who is grooming his daughters to be successful decision makers. (It seems that he's batting .500 in that regards.)

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:39 pm
by Guest Poster
However, that does not preclude him from being a jerk -- in this case, he would be a jerk who is grooming his daughters to be successful decision makers. (It seems that he's batting .500 in that regards.)
I kind of concur. Lilly's parents left when she was 12. At that age, I'd argue children still very much need their parents and Lilly and Akira spent years believing that they were abandoned over Lilly's lack of sight. (well, Akira believed it, as Lilly kept her thoughts to herself) The grooming could have waited until later. Abandonment is still abandonment.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:09 pm
by dewelar
Maradar wrote:My reaction after reading...
:)
I would like you to write a book.
I tried once...sort of. A friend asked me to help with a fantasy novel he was working on. I think we got about 6-8 chapters done before throwing in the towel.
Guest Poster wrote:
However, that does not preclude him from being a jerk -- in this case, he would be a jerk who is grooming his daughters to be successful decision makers. (It seems that he's batting .500 in that regards.)
I kind of concur. Lilly's parents left when she was 12. At that age, I'd argue children still very much need their parents and Lilly and Akira spent years believing that they were abandoned over Lilly's lack of sight. (well, Akira believed it, as Lilly kept her thoughts to herself) The grooming could have waited until later. Abandonment is still abandonment.
*nods* As I said above, Lilly's parents are flawed, and make flawed decisions. It was not my intention to excuse them, just to provide an alternate explanation of their motivation that wasn't just "we did this because we're meanies". Also, the road to hell and such.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:09 am
by UltimateShammer
Goddamn! This really puts the "drama" in "high school drama".

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:05 am
by Kurara
You just keep me guessing.

I start to think I've got it figured it out, but then you throw me a curve-ball.

You ought to write an original drama! It doesn't hurt that your grasp of writing dialogue is great.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:27 pm
by Leaty
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm with Griffon on this one:
If there are only two endings and one is better than the other, the other one is bad by default.
By this logic, Suikoden II has two bad endings, since there's one ending that you can only get if you collect all 108 stars. Never mind that all three endings have a decisive military victory over the bad guys, and in one of the other endings you get to be the first president of a nascent republic.

A bad ending should feel like things have ended up only slightly better off than a nonstandard game over. Hell, you could even say that some games (like System Shock II) only have a bad ending. Lilly's Neutral ending ends with happy thoughts and happy memories, so it really shouldn't be considered a bad ending unless you're using the most simplistic, contextless reasoning possible.

At any rate, this chapter was certainly intriguing. Based on what we know now, I'm, hmm, going to place odds on Hanako and Lilly falling in love and Emi becoming fuck buddies with Nori. Hisao will run away to open a Bed & Breakfast with Kenji. Yup, that sounds about right. Even if that wasn't your idea, you can have it, Dewelar.

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:33 pm
by Mirage_GSM
The last line of Lilly's bad ending:
"But even so, it feels like there's a certain missing part in both of our lives now. Something that can never be replaced."
I have a slightly different concept of "happy thoughts and happy memories" ;-)

I've played neither Suikoden nor System Shock, but I'm certain that there many stories that are not as simple to classify. The Akira route in Tsukihime has two endings and I would both of them to be bad (which is too bad, because she's my favourite character in the VN^^°)
For the discussion thread I opened* I rephrased that statement a bit, to "If in an ending the two main characters separate and are both unhappy about it, that ending is a bad one."
And, yes, that definition is only useful in the romance genre.

*you said you don't check the discussion forum...

Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) [Ch 31 up 1/10]

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:18 pm
by Guestimate
Guh, I'm starting to think this will end with poor Hisao quite literally stressing himself to death...