Developments (Post-Lilly NE) [Complete, 2015-08-11]

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bhtooefr
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by bhtooefr » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:16 pm

You know, I just realized something...
dewelar wrote:[Hanako wants to know if we could make sure Lilly's not in her room. Shouldn't we, Shicchan? Just to make sure nothing happened to her in there?]

Hm, I do still have the key to her room, which I was intending to turn in to the administration this afternoon. It's highly irregular to use it for this purpose, but so is my cousin not returning to her room overnight. If it would help put my classmate's mind at ease, perhaps I can bend things this time. Besides, if there is something wrong with Lilly, I'd bear some responsibility for it, wouldn't I? If pushing her to reconcile with Hisao led anywhere...

[All right, Misha. We'll go around to Lilly's room, just to be sure. If there's no answer, I have the key to the room, so we can have a look.]

[Okay!] |Misha turns to face Hanako.| [Shicchan says she'll do it. [Thank you.]]
I can completely understand why she'd do it, even after of her... confrontation... with Hisao (even BECAUSE of that confrontation, because it put her more on edge), but... Hanako just had Shizune break into Lilly's room for her, because she was worried about Lilly.

And Hanako wanted Lilly to trust that she was strong, and then turns around and pulls that, not trusting Lilly to be strong. Damn it, Hanako...

If I were Lilly, and I ever found out that Hanako pulled that stunt... well, to paraphrase Misstep 1.1 (haven't played 1.2.1 that far yet) and take a little bit out...
Lilly: "Get out of my room, get out of my room, get out of my room...! Leave, I'm telling you, go!"
Hanako: "B-but... I was just trying to... help you..."
Lilly: "I know I need help! I know I'm broken! I don't need you to tell me that!"
Hanako: "I never said you were broken, or anything like that!"
Lilly: "It's hidden in your voice, it's hidden in Hisao's voice, it's hidden in everyone's voices! I hate Hisao, and I... I hate you more than anyone...!"
Even though I completely understand her motivations here... Hanako just demonstrated a critical failure to learn her lesson, and topped her hypocrisy from before in spectacularly bad fashion. I... no longer ship your Hanako with your Hisao. I guess that leaves Emi or Noriko...
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dewelar
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by dewelar » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:40 pm

bhtooefr wrote:I can completely understand why she'd do it, even after of her... confrontation... with Hisao (even BECAUSE of that confrontation, because it put her more on edge), but... Hanako just had Shizune break into Lilly's room for her, because she was worried about Lilly.
I'd say "break into" is a bit strong for this particular bit. I admit to having some trepidation over doing it this way, but I thought taking this liberty was justified, and I'll explain why.

Since it was never addressed, I presume that in a school like Yamaku, where there are many students with potentially life-threatening conditions, there would be some sort of procedure to check on students who aren't answering their doors/phones to ensure their safety. I expect there would be some kind of R.A. or ward or some such that would have this authority, and would be the liaison that would inform the school's medical staff as needed. In all likelihood, Shizune probably has some kind of authority of that nature within the girls' dorm (not sure who it would be in the boys' dorm - the most senior male class rep, perhaps). Point being that somebody would be doing this. I just made it Shizune for the sake of plot, which hopefully nobody finds unreasonable. If I biffed this one...well, nobody's perfect.

As for the larger implications of this...I'll leave that for future chapters.
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Mahorfeus
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Mahorfeus » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:21 am

A Misstep would be wildly out of character for Lilly, even this Lilly.

She left without telling anyone. It was more or less what she had planned to do with her trip to Scotland. Deliberately making everyone worry about her (she knew Hisao was a worrier, after all), at that. Besides, Lilly's room has never exactly been a bastion of solitude - I almost find it hard to believe that Lilly would even acknowledge it as a trespass.
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by azumeow » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:23 am

bhtooefr wrote:You know, I just realized something...


I can completely understand why she'd do it, even after of her... confrontation... with Hisao (even BECAUSE of that confrontation, because it put her more on edge), but... Hanako just had Shizune break into Lilly's room for her, because she was worried about Lilly.

And Hanako wanted Lilly to trust that she was strong, and then turns around and pulls that, not trusting Lilly to be strong. Damn it, Hanako...

If I were Lilly, and I ever found out that Hanako pulled that stunt... well, to paraphrase Misstep 1.1 (haven't played 1.2.1 that far yet) and take a little bit out...

Even though I completely understand her motivations here... Hanako just demonstrated a critical failure to learn her lesson, and topped her hypocrisy from before in spectacularly bad fashion. I... no longer ship your Hanako with your Hisao. I guess that leaves Emi or Noriko...
Wait wait wait. There's a difference between this and the cause for Misstep. Lilly's never really demonstrated something as catastrophic as this, and in addition, it's not like Hisao didn't go to Hanako's room multiple times to make sure that she was eating and getting her classwork. She responded to him to at least let him know she was around, but she told him that she'd be okay, and Hisao forcing her to let him in is what causes her meltdown. Hanako just wanted to make sure Lilly was okay, not force herself in and try to be there for Lilly. She understands that this is a situation that Lilly needs to handle on her own, but she's scared for her best friend, who up until very recently always appeared to be very calm and collected. She just wants to be reassured that nothing crazy happened, or that Lilly didn't just up and go back to Scotland without telling them. Hell, she almost did that the first time.
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Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by brythain » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:01 am

dewelar wrote:Since it was never addressed, I presume that in a school like Yamaku, where there are many students with potentially life-threatening conditions, there would be some sort of procedure to check on students who aren't answering their doors/phones to ensure their safety. I expect there would be some kind of R.A. or ward or some such that would have this authority, and would be the liaison that would inform the school's medical staff as needed. In all likelihood, Shizune probably has some kind of authority of that nature within the girls' dorm (not sure who it would be in the boys' dorm - the most senior male class rep, perhaps). Point being that somebody would be doing this. I just made it Shizune for the sake of plot, which hopefully nobody finds unreasonable. If I biffed this one...well, nobody's perfect.
I agree with this. As a resident of such an institution for more than a decade, there was always at least one person on-site with this responsibility even without the life-threatening conditions situation. After all, teenagers and young adults… And yes, normally it was the most senior student, and that student would even have all the contact information for all the residents. In that student's absence, the responsibility would always be handed over to at least one other person.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Guest Poster » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:28 am

If I were Lilly, and I ever found out that Hanako pulled that stunt... well, to paraphrase Misstep 1.1 (haven't played 1.2.1 that far yet) and take a little bit out...
This is one situation you shouldn't be tossing around like popcorn.

Misstep was a very specific situation with very specific conditions. It doesn't happen every time somebody screws up. It even doesn't happen 9 out of 10 times somebody screws up. Most of the time, the characters are stable enough to realize that talking about the problem is more productive than going apeshit over every perceived slight.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by bhtooefr » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:29 am

OK, maybe Misstep is a bit strong (I was actually angry at Hanako last night when I realized what she did), but still... I'm seeing parallels between Hanako's situation in Misstep, and Lilly's situation now. You're right, Lilly wouldn't blow up like that, but I don't think she's going to be happy, and she may not be able to trust Hanako again. And, if Hisao hears about it, he may well find himself quite a bit angrier than he expected, after JUST having that argument with Hanako.

The fact of the matter is, Lilly's condition isn't life-threatening... would the staff have actually entered Lilly's room in that case, at that time? I mean, I think they'd eventually check, but...

Really, Hanako specifically requested that someone enter Lilly's room against her will to check on her. Even if Lilly actually were dead in her room, and even if it were Yamaku staff entering... that's showing less trust than Lilly even showed in Hanako.

I'll note that Hanako doing this is completely in character - anxiety is excellent at removing the ability to reason through something, I know that all too well... but I would hate myself for doing that once I realized what I did, and I'm holding Hanako to the same standard.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Mahorfeus » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:03 am

bhtooefr wrote:Even if Lilly actually were dead in her room, and even if it were Yamaku staff entering... that's showing less trust than Lilly even showed in Hanako.
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. What does this have to do with trust?

Frankly, I think Lilly should be angry at herself for pulling this stupid stunt. Is she so devoid of common sense that she thought that moving behind everybody's backs was a good idea? I mean, even the administration didn't know. Does she realize how many red flags she put up? It is a good thing that Hanako brought it up to Shizune. Otherwise, the school might be raiding Lilly's panty drawer for clues as to her whereabouts.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by bhtooefr » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:13 am

I'm not saying that Lilly's actions were reasonable, either, I'm just focusing on Hanako's hypocrisy here.

Lilly absolutely fucked up big, but Hanako didn't give Lilly the trust that she wanted from Lilly. That's the problem on Hanako's end, really.
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by emmjay » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:38 am

dewelar wrote:I swear, I'm listening to a recording of the same conversation we had three months ago.
Umm, wouldn't something like "I'm watching a replay of the same, etc." be a better word choice, considering?
That nitpick aside, I quite enjoyed this one. I don't have much to say about The Reveal that hasn't already been said, but yeah, that does cast the actions of certain Hakamichis in a new light.
Loved the line about there not being "a decent game in the house." As an avid gamer myself, I know where she's coming from.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:53 am

It seems I'm late to the party.

Great chapter as always, but...

I'm with forgetmenot in that the formatting confused the hell out of me. Why do you put parts of Shizune's inner monologue in || when you don't do that for any other character?
Also the nested [[]] for Misha's translations don't really feel right^^°
then he'll haven't even have started on it
Why not "he won't even have started"?
I swear, I'm listening to a recording of the same conversation..
... listening?
bhtoofr wrote:Hanako just had Shizune break into Lilly's room for her, because she was worried about Lilly.
And Hanako wanted Lilly to trust that she was strong, and then turns around and pulls that, not trusting Lilly to be strong. Damn it, Hanako...
What? This is not about Hanako not trusting Lilly to be strong.
Lilly just dropped off the face of the earth is not answering her door or her cell phone.
It is a distinct possibility that she might have tripped in her room and hit her head, so she is in NO position to complain if someone enters her room to check up on her. In fact if it were me, I'd have checked a lot sooner.
Lilly's condition isn't life-threatening... would the staff have actually entered Lilly's room in that case, at that time? I mean, I think they'd eventually check, but...
Whether or not her condition is life-threatening, she IS a resident of the dorm, she is a minor, and she never told anyone she was going away. Of course they would check or they would grossly neglect their responsibilities.
They'd also have to inform her parents which is probably something Lilly would not want. So asking Shizune instead of going to the medical staff for the request was actually very considerate of Hanako.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Carighan » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:01 am

Mahorfeus wrote:By god, a story in which Shizune's mother isn't dead?
Amazing, isn't it? I had to read it twice to realize that. :P
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Re: Developments, Chapter 47

Post by dewelar » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:46 am

emmjay wrote:
dewelar wrote:I swear, I'm listening to a recording of the same conversation we had three months ago.
Umm, wouldn't something like "I'm watching a replay of the same, etc." be a better word choice, considering?
It would, wouldn't it? :) Fixed, and thanks!
Loved the line about there not being "a decent game in the house." As an avid gamer myself, I know where she's coming from.
Same here.
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm with forgetmenot in that the formatting confused the hell out of me. Why do you put parts of Shizune's inner monologue in || when you don't do that for any other character?
As others have mentioned, it's there to play up the compartmentalization of Shizune's thought processes. Specifically, it's meant to emphasize the separation of active thoughts from passive observations and their attendant reactions. And yes, it's meant to feel disjointed, at least to a degree.
Also the nested [[]] for Misha's translations don't really feel right^^°
I can understand that. It does look a bit awkward. I'll think about what might work better that also isn't quotation marks :) .
then he'll haven't even have started on it
Why not "he won't even have started"?
Speaking of awkward...this has also been fixed, thanks.
It is a distinct possibility that she might have tripped in her room and hit her head, so she is in NO position to complain if someone enters her room to check up on her. In fact if it were me, I'd have checked a lot sooner.
Hanako probably would have, too, if Noriko hadn't told her that Lilly had left the previous morning.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:04 am

Specifically, it's meant to emphasize the separation of active thoughts from passive observations and their attendant reactions. And yes, it's meant to feel disjointed, at least to a degree.
You've written chapters from many characters' perspectives so far and usually you emphasize that separation by just italicizing the active parts. Here you used the || on top of that for no reason I can discern.
Also the nested [[]] for Misha's translations don't really feel right^^°
I can understand that. It does look a bit awkward. I'll think about what might work better that also isn't quotation marks
If your definition is that everything within [] is sign language, you could use normal ' Misha's translations of other people's words, e.g.:
['Hi.' That's all he said. ...]
Or you could clarify what's what with text. In fact that might be preferable in any case, because now that I read the beginning of the chapter again, I'm not quite sure how you used those nested brackets in the first place...
[[Tell Hanako we're sorry we couldn't help.] Hicchan is asking if there's anything we'd like him to do for us.]
This is Misha first translating something she told Hisao and then conveying his reply, right? So the stuff in the nested bracket is stuff that is not addressed at Shizune? Or is it stuff that she is translating verbatim instead of indirectly?
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 47 up 8/

Post by dewelar » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:17 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:
Specifically, it's meant to emphasize the separation of active thoughts from passive observations and their attendant reactions. And yes, it's meant to feel disjointed, at least to a degree.
You've written chapters from many characters' perspectives so far and usually you emphasize that separation by just italicizing the active parts. Here you used the || on top of that for no reason I can discern.
Stronger emphasis, greater separation.
So the stuff in the nested bracket is stuff that is not addressed at Shizune? Or is it stuff that she is translating verbatim instead of indirectly?
The first one. It was meant to show things Misha was saying to people other than Shizune, which means I need to fix the one with Yoshi and a couple others that could be single quotes. (EDIT: Done! - Like I said, I knew I'd screw some of these up.) Thanks for the suggestions!
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Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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