Developments (Post-Lilly NE) [Complete, 2015-08-11]

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Blasphemy
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Blasphemy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:50 am

Oh boy, if this was a horror movie we'd pretty much be at the point where the characters go "alright everyone, let's split up!" Nothing could possibly go wrong with that manly picnic... right?

Anyways, great chapter. On a first impression almost nothing feels odd either. Almost though, as I'm a bit surprised our characters aren't a bit more scared for Lilly. I mean if she's been missing for like one and a half day now... that's quite worrisome for me. After all, where'd she actually go, especially since she's blind and, while still very capable, probably wouldn't just stroll through the city, drink in a bar and call it a day in some hotel room.

So I see 3 options for her: Akira's and her home from before Scotland, her grand parents (who were originally supposed to take care of Lilly instead of Akira) or the summer house in Hokkaido. Sure the latter one would be quite a trip or so but is also a very emotionally charged place for Lilly as well as the most likely still available place to go; after all who knows about her grand parents now and the old home could've been sold off already. On the other hand I'm not sure if Lilly really wanted to wallow in her memories from Hokkaido right now but... well I should stop speculating already.

As bhtooefr has also pointed out, I really like Hisao calling out Hanako's hypocrisy some. Hanako's reaction to that, deer in a headlight pretty much, seems also very appropriate. It will probably help her understand that Lilly, just like herself, was just genuinely trying to help the other person, without any malevolence involved. Then there's the question if she thinks Hisao has actually much of a point or if Hanako thinks Hisao seriously just didn't take enough care of his health and she's mostly in the right acting like this.

Either way it's a lot to ponder and no matter how she looks at it she should come to a better understanding of her relationship with Lilly (and Hisao), which would help amend their situation.

See, if I find myself thinking about this stuff so much following a chapter I can't help but think you did a great job^^

I'm also really liking Yoshi by now. Having a character take some harmless jabs at this 'master of romance' situation is really enjoyable. Same goes for Noriko to a lesser degree (her jabs may not quite be harmless) who has also grown on me a bit.

By the way way, I've seen Gunbuster 2-3 weeks ago and the protagonist was called Noriko as well.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:15 am

Carighan wrote:Yeah but no one since the last chapter seems to be willing to type it down that Lilly might end up killing herself.
I'll go ahead and say it, my fear is that she's in her room, dead, and that's been the case since last chapter, and nobody noticed her slipping back in.

I don't think dewelar would go there, though.

One thing I'll note is that Hanako's hypocrisy here is due to a rather fundamental part of her character. She so desperately wants others to think she's useful, and she also genuinely puts her worrying about other people above her worrying about herself, even when she's on the edge of a panic attack. The latter is part of why we like her so much, I think - why she's sweeter than pure HFCS - but it can lead to her doing things that she wouldn't want others to do to her, like this, especially in combination with her trying so hard to be seen as useful. It's something that she'll actually have to work hard to avoid doing, really.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:21 am

So I see 3 options for her: Akira's and her home from before Scotland, her grand parents (who were originally supposed to take care of Lilly instead of Akira) or the summer house in Hokkaido.
I think only the first one remains. The summer home was sold before the end of Lilly's route (Akira didn't even get to stay there with her boyfriend anymore) and we can probably rule out the grandparents as well. If Akira went to call Shizune and got a zilch in response, it'd make sense she went on to call the rest of the family members still residing in Japan. That leaves their actual home...assuming Akira didn't put that one on sale either.

Suicide is unlikely because...well... melodrama.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Blasphemy » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:07 am

The summer home was sold before the end of Lilly's route (Akira didn't even get to stay there with her boyfriend anymore)
Oh, couldn't remember that. Yeh that makes the first option the most likely one.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:09 am

bhtooefr wrote:Edit 2: Then again, on a re-read... damn you... I do get a vibe that Emi's holding back, though, for some reason.
Just for the sake of completing my thoughts... I did just realize what happened.
dewelar wrote:"You two have been getting...pretty close lately, huh?" Emi continues, and the perfect timing of the statement nearly makes me laugh.

Not wanting to get into the discussion just yet, I reply, "Yeah, I guess you might say that."

"I figured as much," Emi says with a nod.
For a change, instead of everything being out on the table, things are now working on implications... and because Hisao didn't put everything on the table, combined with Hanako admitting that she loves him... Emi now thinks Hanako's already won, it appears. Which explains why her actions later in the chapter are more consistent with being Hanako's wing-girl than being her rival, despite the promises that she made, and this is leading to Hisao perceiving that Emi's taken herself off the table despite continuing to run with him.

I do think that the ending will involve Hisao getting with neither Hanako nor Emi, though, but things are being set up so that they can both grow to the point of being OK with that while still being close friends with him.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:17 am

Blasphemy wrote:Almost though, as I'm a bit surprised our characters aren't a bit more scared for Lilly. I mean if she's been missing for like one and a half day now... that's quite worrisome for me. After all, where'd she actually go, especially since she's blind and, while still very capable, probably wouldn't just stroll through the city, drink in a bar and call it a day in some hotel room.
While I'm a bit curious where she actually is, I wouldn't be too concerned either.
If she had been in an accident the school would have been notified by now, and in Japan a girl can actually walk the streets at night without having to fear for her safety.
A suicide over a minor fight like that would be ludicrous. I trust dewelar not to stoop so low and go so OOC after putting so much effort into the story so far.
I can see her drinking too much and passing out in her room, though ;-)
As bhtooefr has also pointed out, I really like Hisao calling out Hanako's hypocrisy some. Hanako's reaction to that, deer in a headlight pretty much, seems also very appropriate.
This - I think what follows her immediate reaction is a bit much, though I still wouldn't call it a "fight"
bhtooefr wrote:Emi now thinks Hanako's already won, it appears. Which explains why her actions later in the chapter are more consistent with being Hanako's wing-girl than being her rival, despite the promises that she made, and this is leading to Hisao perceiving that Emi's taken herself off the table despite continuing to run with him.
Quite likely. And if so, that is one more misunderstanding that has to be resolved...

Looking forward to the (2/3)manly picknick. Yoshi could use a pick-me-up, and Noriko probably wouldn't say no...
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Mahorfeus » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:07 pm

Perhaps Lilly has gone to Hokkaido out of sentimentality? To sort out her feelings? Granted, I have no idea whether she could even make that kind of trip on her own, but who knows?

At any rate, I hope this little gathering doesn't blow up in Hisao's face. I definitely did not expect Noriko and Yoshi's development to reach this point. It'd be cute if they got together, though I don't entirely expect it to happen (at least not in the romantic sense 8)). I hope that this doesn't lead to any horrendous misunderstandings, because frankly, even more conflict at this point would be a tad overkill. But it looks like I'll just have to wait and see, as always.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:37 pm

Like Hisao said, he'd have to get VERY drunk, and I don't think he's THAT depressed.
Even if I think he's a bit pessimistic regarding his chances with both Emi and Hanako.

Yoshi on the other hand...
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:04 pm

Wait a minute.
dewelar wrote:And, a quick follow-up on something I posted earlier: Yes, Yoshi is the closest thing this story has to a self-insert. Let the beatings commence :) .
Hisao, Hanako, Emi, and Lilly aren't the main characters, this is just an excuse for dewelar to do self-insert x KS character... and settling for an unnamed side character at that. I mean, at least he could've done a Scottish self-insert x Lilly. :lol: What a hack! :twisted:

(I'm joking, if it's not clear.)
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Blank Mage » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:16 pm

I can't see Lilly committing suicide. She's not that dramatic, and she knows what her death would do to both Hisao and Hanako. She's too smart and too compassionate to hurt them like that, and if she does, it won't just be because Hisao dumped her and Hanako wants to discuss her feelings. Put another way, if Lilly tells Hanako she can date Hisao and then OFFS herself as a result, she will be initiating the biggest backstab ever, on her closest friends plural. Moving on.

I agree that Hisao is walking into a trap /ackbar but I can at least see how he got there. However, I think that calling that 'an argument with Hanako that might irrevocably our relationship' is particularly dense, even by Hisao standards.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by dewelar » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:30 pm

As always, thanks to all for the kind words!
bhtooefr wrote:Hisao, you fucking dumbass. Just because you had a fight with Hanako doesn't mean that everything's over with her.
Well, remember that his experience with this sort of situation is very limited. Lilly is very conflict-averse, and the two of them never had a real disagreement that we saw in the VN. It's a large part of the reason why their "breakup" played out the way it did. Neither one was capable of confronting the other in any way.
I do like how you revealed Hanako's own white knight streak, and had Hisao call her out on it, though.
Thanks. This was one of the more difficult scenes to write, because of what I said above. Rin-Hisao or Shizune-Hisao would have handled it much differently.
brythain wrote:Nice to see Comrade Hisao finding himself though, which must be the central idea of Developments, surely. I think.
Well, it's one of them :D.
Blasphemy wrote:See, if I find myself thinking about this stuff so much following a chapter I can't help but think you did a great job^^
Thanks! As you know, I like to hear that my writing gets people thinking.
I'm also really liking Yoshi by now. Having a character take some harmless jabs at this 'master of romance' situation is really enjoyable. Same goes for Noriko to a lesser degree (her jabs may not quite be harmless) who has also grown on me a bit.
Glad to hear it.
bhtooefr wrote:Wait a minute.
dewelar wrote:And, a quick follow-up on something I posted earlier: Yes, Yoshi is the closest thing this story has to a self-insert. Let the beatings commence :) .
Hisao, Hanako, Emi, and Lilly aren't the main characters, this is just an excuse for dewelar to do self-insert x KS character... and settling for an unnamed side character at that. I mean, at least he could've done a Scottish self-insert x Lilly. :lol: What a hack! :twisted:
*laughs*
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:59 pm

I'm analyzing things further, and then I'm going back to a theme that KS plays with - Hisao is a different person based on which girl he chooses to date, and in fact assumes some of their traits here and there.

The mistake that Hisao made here with thinking his friendship with Hanako was over, which really felt like him picking up the idiot ball... I can think of a KS character that would think that a fight meant EVERYTHING IS OVER FOREVER without picking up the idiot ball, but rather reaching those conclusions through anxiety... and she's the other participant in that fight. (How do I know this? Keep in mind that when I write Hanako, I basically write how I would react in her shoes, with some tweaks to pick up her mannerisms. Basically, I use a self-insert as the skeleton of her personality, and then flesh it out with the details that we know from the VN. After a fight like that, I'd be doubting my relationship to Hanako out of sheer anxiety, even though I'd logically know that everything was fine, but it still seems out of character for Hisao, even with how much he avoids conflict and never actually had a fight with Lilly.)

In any case, I think Hanako's going to get a hell of a lot of respect for Hisao once she has time to process this. Now hopefully she's able to keep her own anxiety about their relationship from swallowing her whole...
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by Leaty » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:15 am

I really loved Hisao calling Hanako out on her white knighting last chapter. That really didn't sit well with me. Also, you can add me to the chorus of people who want to know where the hell Lilly is, but Dewelar isn't Doomish, so she probably hasn't been kidnapped by a pimp and forced to work in a maid cafe.

Really, truly loving Noriko and Yoshi in this chapter. Seaweed Girl in particular is utterly fantastic. Every time she shows up it just makes my day. I can't wait to see how the Corrupted Manly Picnic plays out. (Yoshi's anecdote about Kenji was a joy to read, too.)

Wait, if Hisao gets really drunk tonight, he's totally going to miss his morning run with Emi, isn't he? If he compounds that mistake by sleeping with Noriko, that could wind up sinking a lot of ships. Not that I see any chance of that happening, but it's an amusing thought.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by azumeow » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:21 am

Leaty wrote:I really loved Hisao calling Hanako out on her white knighting last chapter. That really didn't sit well with me. Also, you can add me to the chorus of people who want to know where the hell Lilly is, but Dewelar isn't Doomish, so she probably hasn't been kidnapped by a pimp and forced to work in a maid cafe.

Really, truly loving Noriko and Yoshi in this chapter. Seaweed Girl in particular is utterly fantastic. Every time she shows up it just makes my day. I can't wait to see how the Corrupted Manly Picnic plays out. (Yoshi's anecdote about Kenji was a joy to read, too.)

Wait, if Hisao gets really drunk tonight, he's totally going to miss his morning run with Emi, isn't he? If he compounds that mistake by sleeping with Noriko, that could wind up sinking a lot of ships. Not that I see any chance of that happening, but it's an amusing thought.
That would be the Grand Bad End, and end with Noriko pregnant, and Hisao a reluctant father wishing he could go back and die on that fucking roof like he was supposed to!
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Neutral End) - Chapter 46 up 7/

Post by edruil » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:15 pm

azumeow wrote:That would be the Grand Bad End, and end with Noriko pregnant, and Hisao a reluctant father wishing he could go back and die on that fucking roof like he was supposed to!
If that was the sole ending to this, I would probably ragequit fanfiction forever, not gonna lie.

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