Developments (Post-Lilly NE) [Complete, 2015-08-11]

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bhtooefr
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by bhtooefr » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:56 am

And actually, that's where I could see the Hanako route being ruled out - if Lilly follows through with the plan to go back to Yamaku, getting with Hanako will probably be perceived as white knighting no matter what.

I'll stop speculating, though, my thoughts have been half-baked every time I post, it seems.
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Blasphemy
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by Blasphemy » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:44 am

I'm not a fan of Lilly recounting so much in the beginning. In this case it feels a bit too much like she's trying to give the reader a summary of everything instead of just thinking about it herself. That may be something you should look out for in general. There have been several instances where I was wondering why a character is doing recounting in a way that just feels like he wants to give the reader a summary instead of having these thoughts really come naturally. Not sure though how common this stuff actually is in stories with first person views... It does take me out of the illusion a bit though, so I thought I'd mention it in case there's something valid to it.

Anyways, especially one part stood out for me:
However, things changed when the topic turned to my own relationship with Hisao. I had intended to express how poorly rushing into my own confession had turned out for me. Hanako's response, that my mistake was in not being careless enough, was...unexpected. In that moment, all the frustration I'd been feeling came to the surface, and I let a comment slip that I shouldn't have.

Immediately, I tried to apologize, but I couldn't find the right words.
This information seems rather redundant. Since Lilly is an established character your audience should be capable of understanding her actions, unless, of course, something happened that we don't know about; that however doesn't seem to be the case. Feels like she should have just shortly mentioned the conversation and how it made her feel overall and afterwards (dropping the phone etc. is actually new and important to know) instead of detailing some parts of it.

Now reading your notes you apparently felt like you needed to justify her behavior a bit more to Mirage but I'm not sure if this would even accomplish that. Again, apart from her continuous struggle to come closer to her family there's, in my opinion, little new that comes from Lilly's perspective of the call. So if he felt it was OOC back then, would that change here? I can't speak for him of course.

You yourself wrote it like that because you thought Lilly's reactions would be appropriate given the circumstances, something I personally can agree with and, as a reader, it's nice to actually have to work your brain a bit and put yourself in Lilly's position, seeing if you can empathize with her. That gets kinda retrospectively destroyed by having Lilly just straight out tell us again, especially when it's part of a summarization instead of e.g. part of a conversation with Akira.

Feels like you should have a bit more faith in yourself and your audience. Granted I understand that MIrage's words count quite a bit, though I also don't understand why Lilly's actions seem so clear cut OOC for him when the arguments you yourself, bhtooefr and I listed seemed reasonable to me.

That said, all in all just a minor issue for me and otherwise the last 3 chapters have been great. I think you did really well with the conversation between Lilly and Akira, seemed very fitting to their characterization. The phone conversation with HIsao was great too. Really tough that Lilly just realizes that yes, there was still a mutual feeling of love, they just both failed to clearly show it, thus causing all the mess. I guess I'm also interpreting this right that knowing this lights up her feelings again? Considering the "I love you..." thought near the end and what else indicators there are throughout.

In general you often leave just enough room to interpret and consider character behavior that makes it a joy to read because it requires some active thinking, maybe that's also why I'm especially unhappy when Lilly recounts her perspective on things a tad too detailed for my liking.

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dewelar
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by dewelar » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:45 am

Blasphemy wrote:Lots of good thoughts
Thanks for the feedback. It's possible that I may have gone overboard with Lilly's thoughts in the first third of the chapter. It's been several days since the last Lilly POV chapter, and I wanted to establish her progression through those days, but perhaps there was too much of it, or perhaps as you say it was more that the presentation was a bit clunky. I've mentioned before that I always read these chapters aloud to someone before posting them, so perhaps it just comes off better when spoken than when read.

Talking about justifying to Mirage, I was referring to the board discussion, not to the chapter text. Perhaps, had that discussion not occurred, Lilly's thoughts might not have seemed so redundant. The phone-drop incident needed to be set up, and I don't think she would discuss it with Akira. If you'd like to PM me with how it might have been done better, I'm definitely open to ideas.

The key comment here, of course, was:
Feels like you should have a bit more faith in yourself and your audience.
Somewhere in the middle of writing this chapter, this was exactly the thought that occurred to me, which is why I added that note :D . I hope to be better at this moving forward.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by sanduba » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:39 pm

I think I should stop reading this until it's finished, because I forget things easily. I don't even know what Lilly is talking about that she dropped the phone or something. And I'm currently reading another fanfic here, and this one is completed already, so...
Best story:
Hanako > Rin > Lilly > Emi > Shizune

best girl:
Lilly > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Rin

Eh, that's my opinion.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by dewelar » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:08 pm

sanduba wrote:I think I should stop reading this until it's finished, because I forget things easily. I don't even know what Lilly is talking about that she dropped the phone or something. And I'm currently reading another fanfic here, and this one is completed already, so...
She's describing something that happened "off-screen", so there was nothing to forget. If you still want to bow out until this is complete, then I guess I'll look forward to seeing what you think then :) .
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by sanduba » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:09 pm

dewelar wrote:She's describing something that happened "off-screen", so there was nothing to forget. If you still want to bow out until this is complete, then I guess I'll look forward to seeing what you think then :) .
Ah, ok then. But anyway, I like to read like four or five chapters non stop, I find it easier to assimilate in my mind.
Best story:
Hanako > Rin > Lilly > Emi > Shizune

best girl:
Lilly > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Rin

Eh, that's my opinion.

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Re: Developments, Chapter 25 (Notes at end)

Post by inthewind » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:43 pm

dewelar wrote: I've barely seen Father or Akira,
Isn't that rather normal, though?

Amusement aside, I also greatly appreciate this, and thanks for crafting it.

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by Carighan » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:32 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'd be really disappointed if you chose that path, though. All the conflict with Emi and Hanako you've built up so far would just fizzle and be for nothing^^°
I feel this resolution would only be acceptable if Emi/Hanako either end up lovers or ideally very close friends. After that line of one-shots written by... damn I forgot who. :'(
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dewelar
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by dewelar » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:44 pm

Carighan wrote:
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'd be really disappointed if you chose that path, though. All the conflict with Emi and Hanako you've built up so far would just fizzle and be for nothing^^°
I feel this resolution would only be acceptable if Emi/Hanako either end up lovers or ideally very close friends. After that line of one-shots written by... damn I forgot who. :'(
You're talking about BlackWaltz's Eminako series, right? I've been enjoying those quite a bit as well.
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Re: Developments, Chapter 25 (Notes at end)

Post by bhtooefr » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:05 pm

inthewind wrote:Isn't that rather normal, though?
You know, I noticed that, and decided not to comment on it, because Lilly does use figures of speech like that, and openly tells people to continue using them if they use them and then realize that she can't do that.

And, the Eminako series forms part of my headcanon of how Emi and Hanako would interact, although obviously it doesn't fit into the VN.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:38 am

Granted I understand that Mirage's words count quite a bit,
When I correct a bit of grammar, I'm usually pretty sure I'm correct.
When I say I think something is OOC, that is just my opinion, which shouldn't count any more or less than any other opinion here on the forum except for those of the devs.
That said, in this case I was not the only one who thought this line was strange for Lilly and I think there were several ways to interpret it, so the clarification was certainly welcome.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by Guest Poster » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:24 am

I think I'll avoid speculating on where this is going to go, other than to say that it looks like an Emi ending has been ruled out? (Unless Hisao goes massively OOC. Or I'm missing something obvious.)
Funny, I thought the exact opposite. The emergence of the blind art club member and possible return of Lilly all seemed geared towards the creation of an airbag to cushion the Hisao-Hanako ship crash.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by dewelar » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:55 pm

A quick progress update: I thought I was done with this chapter last night, but when I read it aloud I realized it still needed a fair amount of work, at least another day or two. In a way, I'm glad I didn't, because a couple of the heavy hitters published chapters within the last 12 hours or so, and I would have felt like one of those little independent movie studios whose new release drops the same weekend as Hunger Games and Iron Man... :D
Mirage_GSM wrote:That said, in this case I was not the only one who thought this line was strange for Lilly and I think there were several ways to interpret it, so the clarification was certainly welcome.
Good to know, but I think I'm still going to stick with "you'll see why this happened later in the story" when I can in the future.
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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by forgetmenot » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:55 pm

dewelar wrote:In a way, I'm glad I didn't, because a couple of the heavy hitters published chapters within the last 12 hours or so, and I would have felt like one of those little independent movie studios whose new release drops the same weekend as Hunger Games and Iron Man... :D.
Judging by the traction this story has been gaining over the past month or so, I'd say your story is a little bigger than you think. You're 6th on the fanfic board in terms of replies and 22nd in terms of views (considering at this point there's 800+ topics on this board, that's no small feat).

In short, you're telling a good story that people want to read. Take your time editing; delayed works are eventually good, but rushed works are bad forever.

Good work so far!

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Re: Developments (Post-Lilly Bad End) [Ch 25 up 11/15]

Post by dewelar » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:34 pm

forgetmenot wrote:
dewelar wrote:In a way, I'm glad I didn't, because a couple of the heavy hitters published chapters within the last 12 hours or so, and I would have felt like one of those little independent movie studios whose new release drops the same weekend as Hunger Games and Iron Man... :D.
Judging by the traction this story has been gaining over the past month or so, I'd say your story is a little bigger than you think. You're 6th on the fanfic board in terms of replies and 22nd in terms of views (considering at this point there's 800+ topics on this board, that's no small feat).
:shock: That's...um...

:shock:

Never mind.
In short, you're telling a good story that people want to read. Take your time editing; delayed works are eventually good, but rushed works are bad forever.

Good work so far!
Thanks :) .
Rin is orthogonal to everything.
Stuff I've written: Developments, a continuation of Lilly's (bad? neutral?) ending - COMPLETE!

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