For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (Updated 7/26/19)

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dewelar
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 6/15)

Post by dewelar » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:55 pm

demonix wrote:Since I've got some time on my hands (unlike over the past two days) here are the errors I found.
ProfAllister wrote:More importantly, she has me pretty much immobilized in a vise grip.
vice
"Vise" is correct here (although, technically, "vice" is also an acceptable alternate spelling in certain dictionaries). Although "vice" is probably also accurate :) .
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 6/15)

Post by Steinherz » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:02 pm

dewelar wrote:
demonix wrote:Since I've got some time on my hands (unlike over the past two days) here are the errors I found.
ProfAllister wrote:More importantly, she has me pretty much immobilized in a vise grip.
vice
"Vise" is correct here (although, technically, "vice" is also an acceptable alternate spelling in certain dictionaries). Although "vice" is probably also accurate :) .
^^
A good point. Depends on the author's location in the English-speaking world.
Because for some reason words get different letters dependent on their location (Armour/Armor, Tyre/Tire, Grey/Gray, Vise/Vice).
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:11 am

Hmm, I wasn't aware that "vice" was also a valid spelling of this word. Even though I usually prefer BE I's still not use it in this case simply to prevent the confusion with the bad habit.
[Hicchan told me that you two were going to engage in a battle of wits! Two souls, fiercely entangled! Star-crossed lovers, set against each other in a conflict for the ages!]
are
As for that... I'm not sure which part of the sentence you want to replace with "are" but if you are talking about the "were", then I have to tell you that "were" is correct.
Last edited by Mirage_GSM on Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by demonix » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:04 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:Hmm, I wasn't wawre that "vice" was also a valid spelling of this word. Even though I usually prefer BE I's still not use it in this case simply to prevent the confusion with the bad habit.
[Hicchan told me that you two were going to engage in a battle of wits! Two souls, fiercely entangled! Star-crossed lovers, set against each other in a conflict for the ages!]
are
As for that... I'm not sure which part of the sentence you want to replace with "are" but if you are talking about the "were", then I have to tell you that "were" is correct.
It just looked odd to me at the time (I thought that it was a tense issue to begin with).

And in firefox loaded with the British English dictionary, the original spelling of vice in that chapter had a wavy red line underneath it when I quoted the post.

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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by ProfAllister » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:05 pm

Atario wrote:
pip25 wrote:Otherwise, I'm not sure what to think about this chapter. You kind of gave Misha a disability, only no one knows what that is. I guess I'll have to wait until later to see where this is going...?
I kind of feel like this story is not about the Misha we all know and love. She has a disability, she has this extensive family on multiple continents, she's an expert at English, she's an athlete-level swimmer, she shows little-to-no romantic interest in girls generally nor Shizune in particular (though it could be argued this is a necessity of going with Hisao and thus of a Misha route). Even her eye color is different, and she wears corrective lenses. There's probably more I'm forgetting, too.
*glances at watch*

Almost nine months before someone objected to my creative liberties. Part of that is because of my recent glacial pace, but still, I'm impressed.

I understand the "not my Misha" feel. Sadly, it's somewhat inevitable. You can, in theory, stay 100% within canon, but you won't get very far. Besides, it's more than appropriate that certain details are only revealed in the girl's specific arc.

Before I started writing, I conducted some pretty extensive research on what we do know about Misha for certain, and it's not much. We're told very little about her, and she admits to lying about significant portions of what you are told. Any story that has any real degree of focus on her has no choice but to try to fill in the blanks, which means making stuff up.

So yes, I have taken liberties. And some of these liberties are not in line with the popular consensus. I made peace with the fact that I won't be able to please everyone. I've tried my best to keep it in line with what little canon there is, while creating new details whole-cloth in the service of making a worthwhile story. I'm sorry if any of those details are a bridge too far.

In regard to your stated issues, however:
She has a disability,
This can go either way. She has, at one point, expressed symptoms that impair activity in what would constitute a temporary disability. A permanent disability (the sense normally used in this context) would refer to a chronic diagnosable condition which results in said symptoms. (And yes, "missing legs" is a chronic diagnosable condition, with the symptom of "you have no legs")

So, from a technical standpoint, she doesn't have a disability. She had an experience which indicates the possibility that she may have one of several disabilities, but no diagnosis means no disability.

More germane to the point, the VN never said either way. The most popular reference for the "no disability" camp is:
"I didn't know you wanted to be a sign language teacher."
"Hahaha~! It's the reason why I wanted to go to this school, Hicchan!"


That's kind of tenuous at best. It's made even weaker by several admissions Misha makes later on the rooftop:
"I didn't really want to come to this school, Hicchan~."
"I was learning sign language, but wasn't very good at it~."
"She knew that I was taking sign language classes. I was exposed quickly, I didn't know any~…"


Nothing definitive, but enough to throw skepticism on her initial claim.
she has this extensive family on multiple continents,
Her family wasn't mentioned. Strictly speaking, it could go any which way. Not sure what it means that I decided to flesh out that detail as opposed to any other. (Though I imagine, for some reason, people assume she's an only child?)
she's an expert at English,
Could be a stretch, but, on the other hand, Shizune's route places her in her last year of high school preparing to study overseas. Lilly's route establishes Hisao as being terrible at English. She doesn't really have to be an expert - just so much better than Hisao that he's in awe of her "perfect" English.
she's an athlete-level swimmer,
My biggest liberty, and my earliest. To put it simply, I needed to put Hisao and Misha in a situation where Shizune was out of the equation. That and I felt it was a shame that the pool only got one mention by Misha and one by the nurse. And other considerations that will perhaps be clearer as time goes on.
she shows little-to-no romantic interest in girls generally nor Shizune in particular
We're maybe halfway through act 3, a few weeks into the relationship, and Misha hasn't told her boyfriend that her sexuality is... "unorthodox." And this doesn't make sense to you?
Even her eye color is different, and she wears corrective lenses.
Yeah, part of that is a development nod to the fact that the devs were at one point considering giving her green eyes. And part of that is because I think she looks better with the green eyes. That being said, I'd like to imagine that it's not a complete pandering to my personal preferences, and will in the end work in the service of the story.
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Steinherz
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Steinherz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:39 am

Well Misha does mention getting dizzy going up stairs (she may have been lying there), which is a common symptom of vertigo.
So maybe a bad case of vertigo is her disability? :lol:
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Atario » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:52 am

ProfAllister wrote:
Atario wrote:I kind of feel like this story is not about the Misha we all know and love. She has a disability, she has this extensive family on multiple continents, she's an expert at English, she's an athlete-level swimmer, she shows little-to-no romantic interest in girls generally nor Shizune in particular (though it could be argued this is a necessity of going with Hisao and thus of a Misha route). Even her eye color is different, and she wears corrective lenses. There's probably more I'm forgetting, too.
*glances at watch*

Almost nine months before someone objected to my creative liberties. Part of that is because of my recent glacial pace, but still, I'm impressed.
Mmm, I'm not sure I'd characterize them as objections, exactly. Maybe a little. I was just voicing my own cumulative eyebrow-cocking.
ProfAllister wrote:I understand the "not my Misha" feel. Sadly, it's somewhat inevitable. You can, in theory, stay 100% within canon, but you won't get very far.
I get that. I'm dealing with it myself. But some kinds of things one can do feel more like fundamental recharacterizations and others more like fleshing-out.
ProfAllister wrote:I'm sorry if any of those details are a bridge too far.
Again, it was really not meant as a complaint. Goodness knows there have been many far more extreme examples, even within the Misha-story subcategory, that work surprisingly well.
ProfAllister wrote:More germane to the point, the VN never said either way. The most popular reference for the "no disability" camp is:
"I didn't know you wanted to be a sign language teacher."
"Hahaha~! It's the reason why I wanted to go to this school, Hicchan!"


That's kind of tenuous at best. It's made even weaker by several admissions Misha makes later on the rooftop:
"I didn't really want to come to this school, Hicchan~."
"I was learning sign language, but wasn't very good at it~."
"She knew that I was taking sign language classes. I was exposed quickly, I didn't know any~…"


Nothing definitive, but enough to throw skepticism on her initial claim.
I took that latter part to be a reference to her being bullied, and Yamaku being an escape from that, similar to Hanako's reasoning.
ProfAllister wrote:Her family wasn't mentioned. Strictly speaking, it could go any which way. Not sure what it means that I decided to flesh out that detail as opposed to any other. (Though I imagine, for some reason, people assume she's an only child?)
I suppose it's not so much the existence of siblings or parents, but that there are so many of them (this being a chronic problem amongst the Japanese lately) and that they're on the US like white on rice, and Misha herself has been there multiple times. Seems pretty unusual, especially for a high-schooler.
ProfAllister wrote:Could be a stretch, but, on the other hand, Shizune's route places her in her last year of high school preparing to study overseas. Lilly's route establishes Hisao as being terrible at English. She doesn't really have to be an expert - just so much better than Hisao that he's in awe of her "perfect" English.
Eh, it's plausible.
ProfAllister wrote:I needed to put Hisao and Misha in a situation where Shizune was out of the equation.
That's fair. It was difficult enough even in the canon that it ended up being the primary point of friction in Shizune's route.
ProfAllister wrote:That and I felt it was a shame that the pool only got one mention by Misha and one by the nurse.
Yeah. I can see the temptation. :)
ProfAllister wrote:We're maybe halfway through act 3, a few weeks into the relationship, and Misha hasn't told her boyfriend that her sexuality is... "unorthodox." And this doesn't make sense to you?
Well...yes? I would think this is one of the first things one addresses when going into a relationship. You don't want to get deep into it only to be rejected because the other person's uncomfortable with who it turns out you are (not to say everyone, especially Misha, is going to have enough sense to do this, I will admit). However, Misha reveals this near the end of Act 3 in Shizune's route and he's not even her boyfriend there, so. ¯\(°_o)/¯
ProfAllister wrote:Yeah, part of that is a development nod to the fact that the devs were at one point considering giving her green eyes.
Ah. See, I miss a lot of these nods-to-the-dev-process because I wasn't around for that, having only come to the game after the one-year anniversary.
ProfAllister wrote:will in the end work in the service of the story.
I trust you. 8)
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:47 am

Steinherz wrote:Well Misha does mention getting dizzy going up stairs (she may have been lying there), which is a common symptom of vertigo.
So maybe a bad case of vertigo is her disability? :lol:
This again^^°
I've adressed this multiple times before, but...
The only time Misha mentions that is when she wants Hisao to do some stair climbing for her, so it's obviously an excuse, especially given that:

- her classroom is on the third floor, the student council is on the ground floor, and even though she has to go this way together with Hisao and Shizune hundreds of times during their time at Yamaku she does not show signs of dizzyness or vertigo a single time.
- there are several scenes with her on the roof - one time she goes there alone heavily ladden with snacks and drinks - and she doesn't show any signs of vertigo there either.

As for not telling Hisao about her crush on Shizune - given Misha's self-esteem issues as well as her past experiences concerning acceptance of gays in Japan, I think it's plausible that she is afraid to tell him that.

Her having been to America many times is a bit at odds with her claim that her family isn't rich, but that's a minor inconsistency at best, given the vagueness of "multiple times" and "not rich"

And the mystery illness... Well, I'm not too fond about that development either, but it's the author's choice to make.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Mader Levap » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:06 am

ProfAllister wrote:More germane to the point, the VN never said either way.
Yes, VN is deliberately vague, but there are some hints indicating that in canon Misha may have no disability at all.
ProfAllister wrote:The most popular reference for the "no disability" camp is:
"I didn't know you wanted to be a sign language teacher."
"Hahaha~! It's the reason why I wanted to go to this school, Hicchan!"

That's kind of tenuous at best. It's made even weaker by several admissions Misha makes later on the rooftop.
I remember reading in KS somewhere about non-disabled students attending Yamaku. This is, of course, most important reference that, of course, tends to be completely ommited by "disability camp". :twisted:

Not that it matters, in fanfiction one can, among other things, give any disability to Misha (it is sufficiently vague that one can go either way without breaking canon), change her sexual preferences (if author want to be close to canon, yet geniuely pair her with boy, making her bi is enough) etc.

Considering what many people done to canon characters (including superheroes and futa), it is rather mild change.
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Atario » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:43 am

Mader Levap wrote:if author want to be close to canon, yet geniuely pair her with boy, making her bi is enough
I'd say canon is that she's bi. I mean, she does instigate sex with Hisao in one path.
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by pip25 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:07 am

Regardless of whether Misha has an actual disability or not, it can be said for a fact that her potential disability is not the reason she is at Yamaku.
Misha told Hisao that she learns sign language and has been offered a discount in school fees because of it - but this is certainly not the only reason for that. After all, Hisao did not get a discount just because he learned sign language too, did he? If that would have been the only condition, then it could have been abused very easily by anyone. So instead, let's consider what makes Yamaku so costly to attend: among other things, the 24h nursing staff is very likely to be a factor. But non-disabled students are much less likely to use such facilities, aren't they? Thus, giving them a discount when certain conditions are met is more than logical.

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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:04 am

I'd say it's not the act of learning sign language that is the reason for the discount - it's more likely her intention to teach it.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Hanako Scars » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:21 am

I've decided I'm going to wait for the fic to be completed before reading it. I should have done this to begin with, since I read and reread KS fanfics pretty much every day, so by the time a new chapter comes out and I try to think what happened in the previous ones I am thinking of a combination of about 4 different Misha fics.
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by ProfAllister » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:59 pm

Going down the list...
Steinherz wrote:Well Misha does mention getting dizzy going up stairs (she may have been lying there), which is a common symptom of vertigo.
So maybe a bad case of vertigo is her disability? :lol:
Vertigo is generally a symptom, not a condition of itself. And it can be a symptom of a lot of things - or even nothing. I'm mildly inclined to believe that Misha was telling the truth, but it's not terribly relevant in the end.
Atario wrote:I took that latter part to be a reference to her being bullied, and Yamaku being an escape from that, similar to Hanako's reasoning.
Rest assured, I will address details of Misha's past, and what it means (with regard to this particular Misha, I guess).
I suppose it's not so much the existence of siblings or parents, but that there are so many of them (this being a chronic problem amongst the Japanese lately) and that they're on the US like white on rice, and Misha herself has been there multiple times. Seems pretty unusual, especially for a high-schooler.
Wouldn't it be "like rice on white" in this circumstance? :twisted:

I'll concede that her family is unusual. And it may in fact be pushing credibility, expending goodwill, etc. The best I can hope is that it will be a justified liberty when all is said and done (again, in service of the story).
Well...yes? I would think this is one of the first things one addresses when going into a relationship. You don't want to get deep into it only to be rejected because the other person's uncomfortable with who it turns out you are (not to say everyone, especially Misha, is going to have enough sense to do this, I will admit). However, Misha reveals this near the end of Act 3 in Shizune's route and he's not even her boyfriend there, so. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Well, the first part of your argument is clearly the logical approach. I'd hope you're willing to agree that people rarely act in the most rational manner when it comes to relationships, though. Don't worry, I have plenty of reasons for the way things have progressed. But that comes later.
Mirage_GSM wrote:And the mystery illness... Well, I'm not too fond about that development either, but it's the author's choice to make.
Says the guy that gave her cancer. :p

Anyway, back to writing Scene 6. This is looking like it'll be another big 'un...
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Re: For Want of a Nail - Misha Route (New Chapter 8/7)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:00 am

Hey, back then it was a reasonable assumption. Remember I wrote that when only Act 1 was out.
And even back then I dismissed the "dizzy on stairs" as ridiculous ;-)
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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