Katawa Shoujo Forums

Holy crap. I wasn't expecting an Akira route to be so well-written.

And, I think all of the characters in this have failings. That's what makes it realistic. Of course Hisao is going to demonize his love interest's boyfriend, and not be objective about it.

Are you saying that if I spent the school festival in Lilly's company instead of Hanako's, someone secretly replaced Hanako with another Hanako for Lilly's route? Surely that's absurd. Different writers for different routes might result in somewhat different portrayals, but they should still be part of the same canon.

No, it's not absurd, it's sometimes neccessary for a story like this, tough I admit I don't like it either if taken to extremes...
For example the Hanako in Lilly's path IS different than the one in her own. That's because in Lilly's path the story has to focus on Hisao and Lilly. If Hanako had the same problems there as in her own path, those problems would overshadow Hisao and Lilly's.

Mirage_GSM wrote:If Hanako had the same problems there as in her own path, those problems would overshadow Hisao and Lilly's.

My memory might just be getting hazy about her route, but what problems are we talking about here? The mess with her birthday is featured quite heavily in Lilly's route as well...

The Hanako in Lilly's path is merely shy and shuts herself in during her birthday.

The Hanako in Hanako's path:
- Has a severe panic attack in class due to the mere mention of her birthday.
- Doesn't like people in general and tries to avoid interaction with all but the few who are her friends.
- Doesn't even really trust those few friends and believes they're merely hanging out with her out of pity.
- Believes her friends will eventually walk out on her the moment they get tired of her.
- Has extremely low self-esteem and considers herself to be useless to others, including her friends.

The latter problems...her misantropy, trouble with trusting even her closest friends on a deeper level and crippingly low self-esteem are never addressed in Lilly's route, so they aren't raised as issues to begin with in order to avoid leaving loose ends.

There's a good justification for Hanako's deeper issues not being highlighted in Lilly's path. Most of them, fortunately, can be handwaved as Hisao's attention being mostly focussed on Lilly and Hanako keeping her distance a little more, so the player and Hisao never notice how deep Hanako's issues run.

To expand from that, Hisao is very different between the paths. For easy examples compare the one from Hanako's to the one from Emi's story.
And it makes sense like that. Different paths which happen in parallel (alternatively universes setups) cannot all be properly canon with each other. The consistency has a limit simply because it's already broken by virtue of who Hisao ends up with. There is no consistency.

Guest Poster wrote:Most of them, fortunately, can be handwaved as Hisao's attention being mostly focussed on Lilly and Hanako keeping her distance a little more, so the player and Hisao never notice how deep Hanako's issues run.

Honestly, that's what I assumed from the beginning, having played Hanako's route first. Thanks for the explanation, I guess I lumped most of those issues together in my mind.

Carighan wrote:To expand from that, Hisao is very different between the paths. For easy examples compare the one from Hanako's to the one from Emi's story.
And it makes sense like that. Different paths which happen in parallel (alternatively universes setups) cannot all be properly canon with each other. The consistency has a limit simply because it's already broken by virtue of who Hisao ends up with. There is no consistency.

One could argue that, since the player makes some key decisions for Hisao from quite early on, the player is responsible for shaping Hisao's personality to an extent, depending on the choices made. But the player has no influence on the KS world beyond Hisao's own decisions, and thus the rest of the setting should not change significantly because of those alone. Consistency may have a limit, since the routes obviously aren't all the same, but that does not mean there's no consistency whatsoever.

Really, the only thing inconsistent in Lilly's path is, Hanako joins the newspaper club - somewhat inconsistent because of Hanako's misanthropy. But, remember that while Hanako's self-esteem is in the shitter, she wants to prove that she's wrong, to herself and everyone else, and that explains that.

The panic attack only happened because of Hanako wanting to join Hisao for group work, and therefore Misha getting a chance to be, well, Misha. Hanako never wanted to join Hisao for group work in Lilly's route.

She tries to avoid interaction, yes, although if someone's persistent enough, they can break through her shell, especially if she has a reason to. I mean, Hisao broke through her shell.

I suspect that the fact that Hisao and Lilly keep Hanako around even when they're rather busy with their "healthy adolescent sex drive" helps Hanako. They keep more distance, which helps her not be smothered, and it makes it clear that at least Hisao (Lilly's another story for obvious reasons, but Lilly also walked out on Hisao at the same time) won't walk out on her.

Without wanting to go too much into Hanako...

You could say that Hanako has deeper issues that aren't shown to the player in Lilly's route because said issues would quickly hog the plotline and drag the main conflict off the rails. So keeping those issues off the radar, even though they're definitely there, is justifiable.

Is Akira's boyfriend in a similar position and would giving too much attention to his redeeming traits drag the conflict off-track or is it simply that he can't be cast in too positive a light because the point of an Akira route is hooking up Akira with Hisao and thus her boyfriend is automatically put into the role of the antagonist?

Personally I prefer consistency over pretending that Akira's boyfriend in the VN and Akira's boyfriend in this story are two completely different people without overlap (basically making Tetsuo an OC), but perhaps Thanatos can shed some light on how the character was intended.

pip25 wrote:ut the player has no influence on the KS world beyond Hisao's own decisions, and thus the rest of the setting should not change significantly because of those alone.

I think you underestimate just how influential these things can be. Instead of going too far into quantum physics, I'll just say to consider the butterfly effect. "The beat of a butterfly's wings in Brazil can set off a tornado in Texas." Likewise, the tiniest alteration between universes can have cataclysmic side effects. That's rather dramatic, but the principle applies.

And we should probably stop derailing Thanatos' thread.

Guest Poster wrote:but perhaps Thanatos can shed some light on how the character was intended.

Y'all are having such a nice discussion and I don't want to go shattering any speculation or suspense with word of god.
I've done a lot of talking about Tetsuo before, and I do think there was a lot I could have done with his character and, in fact, I think the missed potential with him is my biggest mistake with regards to how I've written the Akira route so far.

With that in mind, I still have plans for him. Nothing big, mind you, but yeah.

Also, 5-3 currently undergoing its 4th total re-write.

1st time was because I changed up my act 5 outline and had to redo the chapter to reflect that
2nd time was because I went over what I had written and threw it all out
3rd time was because I managed to get most of the chapter written back up again only for my adviser to express complete and utter disappointment

Just can't seem to get this one right.

I'd be wary of total rewrites. Of course, if you decided to do something completely different there's really no helping it, but otherwise... in my experience throwing away everything doesn't really help to make things that much better on the next try. Some stuff from those previous revisions is almost always salvageable, and at least that way it won't feel like all your previous work had gone to waste.

Thanatos02 wrote:Also, 5-3 currently undergoing its 4th total re-write.

It's like KS development all over again!

Imagine my surprise when I look at the clock and realize that, as of now, the Akira route has been in progress for exactly a year, give or take a few hours.

Gonna try and get 5-3 out asap. It's in its final stages.

Thanatos02 wrote:Imagine my surprise when I look at the clock and realize that, as of now, the Akira route has been in progress for exactly a year, give or take a few hours.

You gotta be kidding me.