Former Sisterhood thread

[xperroni]

Just got to the end of it. Not since Ken Wolfe's El Hazard: Earth did I read a fanfic that so neatly took up from where the original material left off, and so perfectly complemented it by providing something it did not: a sense of completion.

On my impressions of Hanako's path I mentioned being a bit frustrated on how it ends right after the confession scene. I felt let down to be denied the company of Hisao and Hanako just as they got to a new (and as it seemed, much brighter) chapter of their story. Surely I could figure how it would follow on, but couldn't I be spared to peek into their lives a little longer?

To have found a fanfic that made up for this - that took us readers further along the lives of our beloved characters, up to the point we could leave feeling we had seen the whole of it - was a rare and wonderful thing.

You, sir, is a genius writer. I am ever so grateful for your work.

[Mirage_GSM]

Thanks for that recommendation. I'll be sure to check it out.

[Negativedarke]

Okay, so clearly I was wrong and there is plenty for you to cover. Hmmn I really better get to work on my idea for a fanfic, just in case you cover that too. Anyways lots of ideas, and considering it's really about Hisao, Hanako, and Lily, you've got something to go with there.

On other news, I've been rereading this story. I forgot how good a job you did nailing even the charecters that don't have major roles, like Emi.

[Flowhill]

Words cannot express how I loved this story and how, despite me reading other hanako fanfics, this feels like a true ending (although we all wish this story would never end, don't we?)

especially this part

She gives a gentle nod, her smile never leaving her face, and replies with a voice that’s tranquil and peaceful.

“This is me. All… of me.”

Made me happy because it reminded me of Musedmoose's fanfiction, especially chapter three wherein Hisao says something amazing.

I'd like to have written it here, but didn't want to spoil the amazingness (if that's even a word)

Keep on writing and after that write a bit more.

[mindtrapdragon]

Very nicely done, I greatly appreciate the story extension and how well it flows together with KS itself.

[LordDarknus]

Well Done Guest Poster!

The "Emotional Hook" throughout your story is very strong, pulling us through the same feels from the game all over again, but doubled (or tripled) over with the "Endceptioness". And I really liked your subtle symbolism here and there, I think that was nicely done, especially notable with the arcade games.

I want to say that Hanako's internal monologue / thoughts feels off, a little too aggressive, I've always imagined her as "gentle but strong"-type, and some other parts of the story feels like a "reuse" of the same scenes from the game, the same anxieties and fears and misunderstandings, taking away a little bit of the feeling and meaning.

But the other New Elements you've added really make up for that, like Akira's further developed character and reasonings, and surprisingly to me; Lilly's as well too. (And the ballroom dancing was pure genius to me.)

Overall, it's a Good Story that has Strong Feels. You wrote it so well, in fact, that ironically; I'm ashamed to say that I somehow feel as if I've "stolen" some bits and pieces of what you wrote, even though I've never read it before writing my own fics. (I didn't copy)

4) I haven't really been a visitor to this subforum before, so if there's something in there that someone else had in his fanfic too, we've been on the same wave-length but I didn't copy it.

You're a very good story-teller, Guest Poster! Good Job!

(This was LordDarknus on the Hanabro-wavelength, signing off. Over and out.)

[Wyko]

An absolutely excellent conclusion to her story, Guest Poster. Bravo for it. I finished Hanako's route earlier today and felt cheated of a proper story. It felt really bad, actually, and this is exactly what I needed. Thank you.

[Guest Poster]

Thanks for the comments, people.

An absolutely excellent conclusion to her story, Guest Poster. Bravo for it. I finished Hanako's route earlier today and felt cheated of a proper story. It felt really bad, actually, and this is exactly what I needed. Thank you.

That's kinda harsh. I thought Hanako's story was a very touching one, it just took Hisao more effort to start a relationship with her and thus that was what the route focussed on.

I want to say that Hanako's internal monologue / thoughts feels off, a little too aggressive, I've always imagined her as "gentle but strong"-type

It wasn't my intention to have Hanako come across as down-right aggressive. I think "gentle but strong" omits a key personality trait of Hanako...her subtle misanthropy. Hanako outright admits to Hisao during her route that she doesn't mind not having many friends because she doesn't like people in general, period. She has trouble trusting others, even those she desperately wants to trust. When in a downer-mood she has the tendency to jump to the worst possible conclusions about others. Not to say there isn't an extremely valid reason for her cynicism, getting stabbed in the back by your friends does that to you...but it's a product of 10 years worth of misery and I figured it was important to keep that aspect of Hanako present since it's very much part of who she is and it's not something that disappears overnight.

and some other parts of the story feels like a "reuse" of the same scenes from the game, the same anxieties and fears and misunderstandings, taking away a little bit of the feeling and meaning.

If you're referring to the conflict between Hanako and Lilly...I did kind of try to have Lilly go through a similar process as Hisao did in Hanako's route, since we learn at the end of the route that Hanako's anxieties regarding her friendship with Lilly are extremely similar to her anxieties regarding her bond with Hisao...so it kinda made sense to work from there.

[LordDarknus]

Thanks for the comments, people.

I want to say that Hanako's internal monologue / thoughts feels off, a little too aggressive, I've always imagined her as "gentle but strong"-type

It wasn't my intention to have Hanako come across as down-right aggressive. I think "gentle but strong" omits a key personality trait of Hanako...her subtle misanthropy. Hanako outright admits to Hisao during her route that she doesn't mind not having many friends because she doesn't like people in general, period. She has trouble trusting others, even those she desperately wants to trust. When in a downer-mood she has the tendency to jump to the worst possible conclusions about others. Not to say there isn't an extremely valid reason for her cynicism, getting stabbed in the back by your friends does that to you...but it's a product of 10 years worth of misery and I figured it was important to keep that aspect of Hanako present since it's very much part of who she is and it's not something that disappears overnight.

No, but then there's a bit of a problem, I imagine that her anger is something comes out unpredictably, in outbursts she can't control, rather than as something "constantly hidden" in the back of her mind.

Hanako doesn't come across as the type who would hide her true feelings very well, if she was feeling angry, she'd show it, or at least hide it poorly. If she was happy, she'd let it show completely too.

She's too honest, and in the game, the only anger we see was in her bad-ending, so... yeah.

Maybe we're just having different interpretations of her, but.. yeah.

and some other parts of the story feels like a "reuse" of the same scenes from the game, the same anxieties and fears and misunderstandings, taking away a little bit of the feeling and meaning.

If you're referring to the conflict between Hanako and Lilly...I did kind of try to have Lilly go through a similar process as Hisao did in Hanako's route, since we learn at the end of the route that Hanako's anxieties regarding her friendship with Lilly are extremely similar to her anxieties regarding her bond with Hisao...so it kinda made sense to work from there.

True, but Hanako has known Lilly for a much Longer time, her reaction shouldn't be the Exact same as when she vented at Hisao in the game, maybe it should much more calmer and venomous, since Hanako has had more than a year of Lilly's maternal instincts, and she should be able to articulate her words better..,

But that's not what I meant, it has to be different a bit, it's....

Like the last scene, "This is me, this is All of me...", that was a special line between Hanako and Hisao, it just doesn't feel too right to have her say that to Lilly. Maybe the last line should be just Lilly saying "So this is.... This is you .....Hanako."

Maybe I'm just asking for more than is needed, or I'm just thinking what I want to think, but if the circumstances change around certain events, the nature of the events themselves should logically change accordingly, instead of being direct copy-and-paste of what Would have been....

But.. never mind. You did a Good Job. An Impressive feat.

And I salute you.

[Brogurt]

If I could chime in, I think Hanako said something in the park scene near the end about how she didn't like people because they made her feel useless, but after meeting Lilly, and then Hisao, she couldn't make herself think that way anymore.

I guess this would be in support of Darknus's conclusion, but I could be remembering it wrong.

[Negativedarke]

Hanako said she didn't have many friends before she got her scars, but that she tresured the ones she had. So the way I see it, she doesn't make a lot of friends, but feels really close to the ones she does make. Now between things she says in both her bad ending and her good ending, here's my take on it. She's afraid that Lily and Hisao aren't really her friends. That they don't see her as a child. As someone to take care of out of pity. That they don't see her as an equal. That's what Hanako's afraid of, and when she gets mad during her bad ending it's because to her Hisao's actions confirm this. I wouldn't say Hanako has misanphropy so much as she's afraid of the friendships she has not really being true, and just motivated by pity. Her fear turns to anger when she thinks it's confirmed.

[Guest Poster]

No, but then there's a bit of a problem, I imagine that her anger is something comes out unpredictably, in outbursts she can't control, rather than as something "constantly hidden" in the back of her mind.

I don't think Hanako needs to feel constantly angry inside in order to have a very negative view of people in general...for a whole decade, Hanako's been living with the idea that the world had already written her off as a human being and throughout those 10 years, her friends, schoolmates and teachers all reinforced that idea. It's pretty much become her reality by the time she entered Yamaku and rather than being angry about it, she's pretty much resigned to it...most of the time. I tried to write Hanako as someone who's lived with this worldview for nearly a decade and has only recently been making genuine attempts to distance herself from it and look at the world through a more positive perspective, but who tends to lapse back into her old world view during times of stress or anxiety. Core beliefs don't change overnight after all and I figured Hanako would need a lot of time to completely change hers.

Hanako doesn't come across as the type who would hide her true feelings very well, if she was feeling angry, she'd show it, or at least hide it poorly. If she was happy, she'd let it show completely too.

And yet Lilly, who is generally pretty perceptive, seems completely unaware of the misgivings Hanako has about their friendship. So is Hisao for the most part. He comments to himself at the end of the game how wrong both Lilly and he were about Hanako. So obviously Hanako can hide some things extremely well. I think whenever she's scared or uneasy or happy, she can't hide that well. When it comes to things that confirm her already existing worldview, that's probably a different matter.

A good example would be the moment at the end of the pool game in her route where Hisao tells Hanako that he'll protect her...in hindsight a gigantic misstep. What Hanako was thinking was probably something along the lines of: "So this is what I am to him...a child that needs protecting. Is that why he's been hanging out with me tonight? Because he's taken pity on me?" What she's saying though is...well, she doesn't say anything at all. She was probably somewhat upset about that remark, but rather than speaking up, she just looks him over. I agree that Hanako probably wouldn't be able to to tell lies with a straight face very well. But simply not telling others what's on her mind...that's something she does constantly. There's a big difference between lying and keeping her thoughts to herself; she's probably rather bad at the first, but she excels in the second.

True, but Hanako has known Lilly for a much Longer time, her reaction shouldn't be the Exact same as when she vented at Hisao in the game, maybe it should much more calmer and venomous, since Hanako has had more than a year of Lilly's maternal instincts, and she should be able to articulate her words better..

Hanako's known Lilly for some time, true, but the conclusion she jumped to about Lilly was rather recent...about a week old or so. Hanako went from believing certain things about Lilly, then attempting to change that way of thinking and then seeing her old beliefs "validated" at the worst possible time. Hanako was also emotionally in a very bad place (much worse than she was on her birthday and probably too far gone to be calm and rational and articulate) and Lilly's attempts at quickly mending the situation merely played into that conclusion, so I didn't think Hanako's reaction was out of character. Given the circumstances, it seemed the most "logical" reaction.

Like the last scene, "This is me, this is All of me...", that was a special line between Hanako and Hisao, it just doesn't feel too right to have her say that to Lilly. Maybe the last line should be just Lilly saying "So this is.... This is you .....Hanako."

I'll admit the final line was placed there because it was tied to an equally emotional moment from the past, but I didn't think it was ill-suited. Using well-known lines from the game in a different context (either completely different or somewhat different) has been something I've done throughout the story and I figured this was a good line to end the story with.

I hope I'm not coming across as overly defensive. I appreciate the feedback and the opportunity for discussion.

If I could chime in, I think Hanako said something in the park scene near the end about how she didn't like people because they made her feel useless, but after meeting Lilly, and then Hisao, she couldn't make herself think that way anymore.

I guess this would be in support of Darknus's conclusion, but I could be remembering it wrong.

The part you're referring to is where Hanako mentions she stopped believing in friendship ten years ago and upon meeting Lilly and Hisao she tried to (and wanted to) convince herself that they were different from the people she used to call her friends, but still found herself unable to put her complete trust in them. Which is pretty much in line with the way she's portrayed in this story.

Hanako said she didn't have many friends before she got her scars, but that she tresured the ones she had. So the way I see it, she doesn't make a lot of friends, but feels really close to the ones she does make. Now between things she says in both her bad ending and her good ending, here's my take on it. She's afraid that Lily and Hisao aren't really her friends. That they don't see her as a child. As someone to take care of out of pity. That they don't see her as an equal. That's what Hanako's afraid of, and when she gets mad during her bad ending it's because to her Hisao's actions confirm this. I wouldn't say Hanako has misanphropy so much as she's afraid of the friendships she has not really being true, and just motivated by pity. Her fear turns to anger when she thinks it's confirmed.

Hanako used to have a small circle of friends before her accident (indicating she's never been and never will be a socialite) whose company she valued, but when those friends became her bullies, she stopped believing in friendship altogether and she's pretty much held onto that belief for 10 years. Misanthropy has varying degrees...some of it is hatred or disdain for humankind and some of it is simply distrust of people. I wouldn't say Hanako disdains people in general, but she's definitely distrustful of them and is unable to completely trust even those closest to her, believing they'll eventually abandon her when they get bored with looking after her. I'd say the distrust-part of misanthropy fits Hanako to a tee. I think we're saying pretty much the same thing with different words here.

[Negativedarke]

Actually it's more like I didn't realize how broad the term misanphropy really is. I agree that it's probably more resigned that constantly mad. It's the nagging fear at the back of her mind.

[LordDarknus]

No, but then there's a bit of a problem, I imagine that her anger is something comes out unpredictably, in outbursts she can't control, rather than as something "constantly hidden" in the back of her mind.

REST OF WALL O' TEXT QUOTE SNIPPED BY MODS

If I could chime in,

no you may not.

some other time, I'll reply to everyone else osmeother time if you were talking to me.

I'm sorry.

oh wait, uhh,

I know what you're doing, "I see whar you did there", I know what you did last summer.

I think we aslo have different views on this, and mine's like this:

http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7130#p126317

(I know that's a horseshitty example, but it's still my example.)
(old shame)

in the beggin part, I resued the whole of Hanko's bad end, but flipped the roles, but the motivations are completely different,

scnes of Hanako repeating what Iwanako did (with Hisao) (in hospital) (wating) (talking) (and just keep talking) are there to emphasise the relation between them.

and to make Hisao feel reallly guilty and bad, and make drama happen.

that's how I used theh "reusing old scnes" thing, but I made it New at the smae time, in a way, to further a Different story.

To have teh exact same wordss, exact same reasons, motivations, behaviour patterns, seems ...odd.

but that's just me.

(sorry for birnig up that old horsehit again,)

I'll see you all again this weekend?

I hope.

maybe.

I have to go.

See Ya!

[Guest Poster]

I mean no disrespect, but I don't think you should write while you're tired. I'm having difficulty following your post. But I'll try.

I know, you have your interpretation of hanako as that, but i think when you write her thoughts, you need to think about emotions.... emootionnssss....

she doesn't think in sentencets that amuse me (or the audeince)

LUBRICANT????

Hisao: w'ere not going to do anything weeeirrrrddddd.....

Are you Sure about that?


no wait, not the point, the point is, I'm saying if she has anger. she won't be thinking in those senetnctec you wrote. she'll be Feeling them. it doesn't seem right to be stating them out so "actively" "directlY" liek that. (it's a matter of writihng stlyle? I guess?)

beyond that, is the difference between your interperteation of Hanako, and my own.

Obviously, neither of us are right, since neither of us created her. ANd I respect your intepretation very much, Guest-Poster,

I don't think we're arguing character interpretation but writing style here, but more on that in a bit.

First of all, I'm not sure why you think it's wrong to have characters occasionally thinking stuff that's meant to draw amusement out of the reader. Hisao had amusing thoughts all the time during his interactions with Kenji during Act 1, even though he was in a bit of a downer mood that first week. I'm also not sure what point you're trying to make by selectively quoting the scene you referred to. There´s no anger in that scene. The exact moment you quoted involved Hanako having a brief "WTF"-moment (and any reader familiar with Emi's arc along with her) before clarifying with a "no, it's not that kind of thing". If you read anger in that part of the story, then I can only say you got it completely wrong.

If you're trying to say that I put too little emphasis on emotions while describing scenes...I probably emphasize events and dialogues of a story over describing how characters feel at that moment because I'm not overly fond of navelgazing and I kinda wrote the story while making the assumption that the readers can figure out the involved characters' emotions and moods through their words, actions and thoughts without the need to have things spelled out for them. This is probably a difference in writing style and it´s kinda hard to objectively discuss since it´s so personal.

I'm not sure where the "anger"-thing in your argument comes from...in general (with a few exceptions), I tried to write Hanako to either be on her guard or in a resigned "Do I really have to be here?"-mood when dealing with people outside her small comfort zone and she's generally relaxed but still just slightly awkward around Lilly and Hisao.

(uuhh, bad idead to be doint this,, but I didn't want to have you wait until next wendesday for michael jackson to turn into a werewolf)
("See you next wednesday)
(huh? err, i think i meant I didn't want to leave you hanging... / waiting... or omsething)

I know a bit clearly, how you think Hanako shoul be,

here';s my take onthe same scene:

The game ends as our conversation drfts to Lilly again, about her leaving tomorow...

Hisao: blah blah blah.. dont' worry Hanko, I'll be here to Protect you.

what?

"Protect" me? ...the world rushes by me in vertigo

has our.. this.. precious.. bond between us.. been nothing more than that? A knight and a helpless child?

Hisao: ...hanako?

I catch myself staring at Hisao.. for a longer time than I realised...

I remember the reassuring smile he gave me jsut moments before..

no, he meant it differently than I heard it... I know he.. I Hope he did...

I give the reassuring smile back, and it comes more sincere than I thought.

I'm not sure.. how Hisao sees me, but at least..

at least we're together.

It doesn't matter why, I think to myself.

We're together.



Lilly and Hisao both "misunderstand" Hanako.

Hanako is sad because they cater so much to her,

but htey thhnk she's sad because of her past and scars. and how pepole react to her

they feel the emotions, certainly, but they're mistaken of the cause.

They don't know their overprotevting-ness is the reason for hanako's sadness. and the vicous cycle feeds itself.

(that's just my intreperation of things, you don't have to agree, and you dn't have to argue with me)
(neithr of us are right)
(and i still greatly respect yours very much, Guest Poster Man)

I'm not sure what we're arguing here. You mentioned Hanako wouldn't be able to hide her feelings well and that she'd be a poor liar. I agreed on that, but pointed out that there's a difference between telling a lie and keeping her own thoughts to herself and that Hanako's an expert in the latter, with the pool scene as an example of her clearly forming a strong opinion on something and yet keeping it bottled up inside. I'm not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here.

that's how I used theh "reusing old scnes" thing, but I made it New at the smae time, in a way, to further a Different story.

To have teh exact same wordss, exact same reasons, motivations, behaviour patterns, seems ...odd.

If you want to focus on Hanako's bad end...I'd say there's plenty of differences. The reason she's holed up in her room is different, the reason one of her friends comes in to drag her out is different, the reason that friend is overly persistent is different...what's mostly similar is the way it ends.

Feel free to reply or argue, but please get some sleep first. It's really difficult to make sense of what you're trying to say.