Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

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Leaty
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Leaty » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:37 am

bhtooefr wrote:I was under the impression that the only things that were canon were the actual contents of the release VN (1.0 or 1.1), and these character sheets.
Delta has said as much, because Delta believes in Death of the Author. If you personally believe Roland Barthes' ideas were the end-all, be-all of literary criticism, then you should probably listen to Delta. If you don't, as I definitely don't, then Delta can be ignored.

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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by bhtooefr » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:36 am

Personally, I treat it as, three "tiers" of canon, with variations between them.

The first tier is the "true canon" tier. What is explicitly stated in the VN or on the website character sheets is absolute canon. The only thing that can contradict it is itself. (And contradict itself it does, in a couple places.)

Below that...

What is implied in the VN is less canonical, but that doesn't make it non-canonical. If the VN explicitly contradicts it, then it's not canon. The stronger the implication, the more canonical it is. But, contradicting it in fic can work. (This is where I place the "fanon" that Kenji x Yuuko happened.)

Works by the authors (fic, art) can contradict implications in the VN, but similarly, cannot contradict explicit statements in the VN. That puts them on the same level (or only slightly below) implications in the VN. This is where Naomi and Natsume were depicted as gay, for instance. (Although, that same work was contradicted, as Miki was in the story, obviously, and that work depicted her as not being in it.)

Comments by the authors are about the same level, too, although with a huge grain of salt - we are talking about 4channers, Delta does have a point about trolling. This can create big problems, though - case in point, Jigoro and Mr. Satou being blood relatives in the VN. The authors saying that was a mistake doesn't work for that reason (same for Lilly being in one of the Shizune bad end scenes). I personally like the idea that Jigoro took his wife's name just to spite Mr. Satou, but that's true fanon (and that one's even weak, given that I think I'm the only one to actually believe that, so it descends to headcanon). As are the ways of having Lilly either never leave for Scotland, or come back from Scotland.

Then, the third tier is "true fanon". This isn't actually canon at all, but when it doesn't conflict with canon and makes sense, I don't mind using it. An example would be Miki using "gaylord".

I don't include beta things as canon, given that they were explicitly cut. Although, they can fit in fanon if they don't conflict.
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by griffon8 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:12 am

I went ahead and asked about this discrepancy over Miyagi and the male English teacher in the "Ask!" thread. This was the response:
Silentcook wrote:The gender reference in "Little Wing" is was wrong. :( Fixed for future releases. :)
So, Miyagi is the English teacher for all third year classes.
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Mader Levap » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:18 am

griffon8 wrote:I went ahead and asked about this discrepancy over Miyagi and the male English teacher in the "Ask!" thread. This was the response:
Silentcook wrote:The gender reference in "Little Wing" is was wrong. :( Fixed for future releases. :)
So, Miyagi is the English teacher for all third year classes.
So, after all that drama, Miyagi still is female English teacher? Truly canonically, even?

Man, that was one nice tempest in teapot.
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Helbereth » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:17 am

Mader Levap wrote:
griffon8 wrote:I went ahead and asked about this discrepancy over Miyagi and the male English teacher in the "Ask!" thread. This was the response:
Silentcook wrote:The gender reference in "Little Wing" is was wrong. :( Fixed for future releases. :)
So, Miyagi is the English teacher for all third year classes.
So, after all that drama, Miyagi still is female English teacher? Truly canonically, even?

Man, that was one nice tempest in teapot.
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by dewelar » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:33 am

griffon8 wrote:I went ahead and asked about this discrepancy over Miyagi and the male English teacher in the "Ask!" thread. This was the response:
Silentcook wrote:The gender reference in "Little Wing" is was wrong. :( Fixed for future releases. :)
So, Miyagi is the English teacher for all third year classes.
Thanks for getting that cleared up. I didn't mean to upset anyone's applecart, but it's good to know this kind of thing when you're trying to write :) .
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:47 am

I'm not really sure why this even was an issue. I would be very surprised if a school the size of Yamaku had only one English teacher...
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by dewelar » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:03 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not really sure why this even was an issue. I would be very surprised if a school the size of Yamaku had only one English teacher...
Right, but is it big enough for more than one per grade level?
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Helbereth » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not really sure why this even was an issue. I would be very surprised if a school the size of Yamaku had only one English teacher...
Well, it's a foreign language in Japan. My school growing up catered to double the number of students at Yamaku, and we only had three foreign language teachers--Latin, French, and Spanish. Then again, that was the 90s, and I also don't know how fervent foreign schools are about teaching English.

The important thing is that Miyagi is an English teacher. Perhaps she isn't Hisao's English teacher, but the fact that she is one means that I didn't completely gloss over a canonical detail in my story--nor did many others.

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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by bhtooefr » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:32 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not really sure why this even was an issue. I would be very surprised if a school the size of Yamaku had only one English teacher...
Actually, how big IS Yamaku?

Let's assume 4 classrooms per year... a capacity of 12 students per class means a capacity of 144 students.

I was in a special school with a 140 student enrollment cap. (And, classes were 12-14 students with two teachers.)

We had one Spanish teacher, teaching a smaller class than normal, and no other foreign language teachers. (Mind you, the entire high school portion of the school was only 40-50 students, the rest was elementary and middle school.)
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Helbereth » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:43 am

bhtooefr wrote:Actually, how big IS Yamaku?
There are ~18 students in each classroom. Four classrooms per three grade levels means there are approximately 216 students at capacity.

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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by bhtooefr » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:52 am

I math real good.

6x3, not 6x2. So, yeah.
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Re: Starbursts (Mutou and Miyagi) (UPDATED)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:49 am

Well, with 12 classrooms and assuming four hours of English a week that would make 48 hours for a single teacher - assuming they teach only English. Here all teacher have to teach at least two subjects; some of my teachers taught up to four.
Having only a single teacher per subject would also pose serious problems when said teacher falls ill, since there would be no one to stand in for them.
And limiting a teacher to only teaching only a certain grade level would just needlessly curb your options when creating the class schedule - especially at a school that has only a high-school branch.
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