A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by LOL WUT » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:16 pm

Kyvos wrote:I really like the story. Can't wait to see what's next.

As for Lilly being Christian, it hasn't been made a huge plot point, and she did where a cross in the game, so why are people making such a big deal about it? Besides, cpl_crud said that he has a problem with many fan fics because they try too hard to stick to canon. As long as things don't clearly contradict existing details, I see it as a good thing.

As for the general religious discussion, please don't argue about religion on the internet. Nobody wins.
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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Helbereth » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:50 pm

LOL WUT wrote:
Kyvos wrote:I really like the story. Can't wait to see what's next.

As for Lilly being Christian, it hasn't been made a huge plot point, and she did where a cross in the game, so why are people making such a big deal about it? Besides, cpl_crud said that he has a problem with many fan fics because they try too hard to stick to canon. As long as things don't clearly contradict existing details, I see it as a good thing.

As for the general religious discussion, please don't argue about religion on the internet. Nobody wins.
This guy deserves a medal.
I agree, somewhat.

While I think it should be possible to discuss religion without it turning into a flame war, it obviously isn't, and it makes perfect sense to avoid inflammatory subjects.

Reminds me of an old internet axiom:
"Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics; even if you win the argument, you're still retarded."

Which is similar in scope to the older axiom:
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

It's really easy to get caught up in an argument like these; even if you realize it's beyond the point where it could have reached an amicable ending. I kinda touched on that back a few pages ago, but nobody seemed to notice. People just can't handle religious, political or human rights topics outside of controlled environments; which an internet forum is not - at least not controlled enough.

Anyway, getting back on topic, will there be any more segments to this story, Paddy?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by griffon8 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:43 pm

I actually thought that was the most civilized discussion of religion I'd ever seen. Nobody got angry as far as I could tell. So, what flame war?
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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:59 pm

PPS: Keep in mind I'm writing this as if it were sections out of a novel, not individual standalone articles. You must assume that previously Hisao had already explained something that has been mentioned - in a chronologically "previous" excerpt - but not elucidated. None of these passages are yet chronologically ordered. I might make a "table of contents" to sort this out.

Now, the discussion:
Helbereth wrote:A theist believes in God - or some higher power.

An atheist believes in reason, intellect and worldly justice.
I beg your pardon, but I believe in both. Perhaps, to be fair, it is God who supports worldly reason. But they both exist, and one does not contradict the other. For, God made reason. Why should something non-sapient which He made contradict Him anymore than His own words?
A Gnosis will turn you to sand if you touch it, or grant you super-powers - they're fickle like that.

A nose is the most prominent feature on the human face, and the most overlooked.

I think I've run this tangent to its end.
And it has been confusing all the way.

I agree, somewhat.
While I think it should be possible to discuss religion without it turning into a flame war, it obviously isn't, and it makes perfect sense to avoid inflammatory subjects.
It is possible to discuss anything, even the most inflammatory issues, if all the parties involved are willing to set aside their emotions and speak about the ideas, people, and events of the issue at hand.

Even if emotions are involved, it doesn't mean you can't learn something beyond the fact that religion is important to people (thus they get emotional about it).

Good God, now we'll start arguing about arguing.

But seriously. People in India, AEgypt, and the lower sections of Africa can get along well enough even though some are pagan, some are Moslem, and some are Christian. I wonder what on God's Green Earth Europeans and Americans are so afraid of when it comes to talking frankly and scholastically about religion.
"Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics; even if you win the argument, you're still retarded."
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
On the other hand, I don't think I can argue with these quotes. :| They're very true.

Whatever. I still think it's well possible to have civilised discussions about religion, politics, etc.
Anyway, getting back on topic, will there be any more segments to this story, Paddy?
As a matter of fact, I just finished the next segment. It'll be in the next post.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:05 pm

A lot has happened between age 18 and age 90, however. I may fill in the details in between at some point. But keep in mind 70 years have passed between the Hisao and Lilly of the last chapters and this.

Someday I will fill in the details.

--------------------------------------

... Lilly and, amazingly I, lived to see 70 years together, all throughout our travels in Europe, America, Asia. The world.

More and more she showed me how the love of God was in the world, wherever we went. Now, in truth, I always thought something greater than myself ruled the world - maybe because I could never believe any one man, or even a council of men - or even a council of women - ruled the world themselves. But it was not until Lilly opened my eyes that I saw what I saw how much God was not only rational, but my father. Our Father.

But in wealth, or poverty, in sickness or health, in war or peace, in life, or death, God's love always is with those who love Him. And Our Father loved, very much, my Lilly. My Lilly of the wheatfields. We met in the wheatfields. And it was in the wheatfields where we parted.

It was almost at the end of our last pilgrimage through Europe. In Pietrelcina, in Italy, we walked through the fields. Though weak, I was able to walk fairly well with a cane. Lilly depended on a cane of her own just to walk, and we often walked arm-in-arm, holding each other up. Through the fields we walked, to an old, stone chapel, where Padre Pio had gone with his family as a boy. Lilly and I were going to the liturgy alone, though I know Lilly certainly by the dry smile and clasped hands she certainly kept our boys and their families in her prayers, and she still does, I am sure.

The old, knotty, wooden door to the church needed only to be pushed open a smidge.

"We are here, my love," I whispered in my native tongue.
She grinned brightly. "The incense is strong, and sweet. I love it."

We kept hold of each other, and shuffled into one of the simple pews on the right. It was not a large church; there were maybe seven simple pews on each side of the church, with room for three, maybe four, people to each. The walls were simple white stucco. Even the marble altar on four rectangular marble legs was bedecked with a plain, white cloth, and two square iron candelabras. It was the picture of emptied simpleness, all of the richness and beauty poured into two things in the entire church: a carved wooden crucifix, which was hanging above the a gold-covered cylinder Lilly called a "tabernacle". Standing in the middle of the modest chapel, among the small crowd of tourists and local churchgoers, was a young, short, modest Franciscan, no more than 30, in his brown robes and that Franciscan hairstyle which cuts off all except a ring of hair off. I presumed he was to celebrate the liturgy.

He walked slowly up to us and rested his hands on the side of the pew, and greeted us.

"Ciao. Benvenuto. Sei pellegrini?"* ("Hi. Welcome. Are you pilgrims?")

After a pause - I do not know much Italian - I turned to Lilly, out of habit. She knew what to do, anyway.

"Sì. Dal Giappone," she replied. ("Yes, from Japan.")

"Benvenuto. Potrebbe sia venuto a l'altare?" ("Welcome. Could you both come to the altar?") He gestured to the altar at the front of the chapel.

"Sì."

She then whispered to me: "Hisao-kun, he wants us to go to the altar. Lead me there."

I stood up, and waited for her. When she stood, she reached out so I could lead her by the hand. We walked slowly up the aisle to the front of the church, under the steady eye of the Franciscan. His hands were at his side, simply waiting.

When we stopped in front of him, he came up to Lilly.
"Signora, vedo che sei bellissima." ("Madame, I see you are beautiful.")
She giggled a bit. "Grazie, Don." ("Thank you, Father.")
"Vedo anche che sei cieca," ("I see you are also blind,") he added, a slight, patient smile on his face, as if waiting for angels to come flying out of her pupils.
"Sì."
He paused, choosing the words carefully in his mind like a man carefully choosing the right wires to cut to defuse a bomb.
"Mi Padre in Paradiso ha parlato oggi," ("My Father in Heaven spoke to me today,") he continued, slowly reaching his hand forward to her head.
"Cosa ha detto?" ("What did he say?")
His hand planted on top of her thin, white hair.
"...Vuole di vedere." ("...He wants you to see.")
I watched on. I had seen many, many miracles in my time... but... this couldn't be... for us?
"Chiudi i tuoi occhi," ("Close thy eyes,") said the priest.
Her cloudy, blue eyes closed. And he removed his hand.
"Veda." ("See.")
She opened her eyes...
... And I saw they were no longer cloudy. The clouds in them had flown and cleared into a deep Navy blue, and I could see her pupils.
She tilted her head around. "This... is..."
She had no idea what to say. Her mouth widened into an astounded smile.
And she laughed.
She turned her eyes to me, looked on my face, and felt it as she had many times.
"Hisao..." she choked out, as her small, gaunt hands brushed her tears away. "my love..."
She turned to the young, tonsured priest. "...G-ggrazie, D-don." ("Thank you, Father.")
Smiling brightly this whole time, he simply nodded.
She turned, then, to the carved cross in the front, and walked toward Him, her fingers reaching for the feet of the man (it was a very large, tall cross).
"Is... this..." She could barely summon the words, so awestruck she was that she could see. "...my Lord and saviour?"
"Watashi Wa," spoke a profound yet pleasant male voice. I, the priest, and Lilly all jumped when we heard it. I turned around to see who could have said it. But I and the priest were the only men in the room. In fear, I turned to the priest and my eyes asked, against reason, if he had said it. As wide-eyed as I, he shook his head. He looked on the crucified Jesus, the feet of whom Lilly was clinging to. I looked upon the man. It had been him, indeed.

Lilly turned her gaze upwards to the face of Jesus as well. And tears of joy streamed from her eyes.

"Wonderful...how wonderful!" she cried, and smiled. "I love You!"

Then, letting go of the cross... she fell flat. The priest urgently knelt down next to her and asked her if she was OK. She could only barely open her eyes, and shake her head "no".

He stood up with great urgency. "Signore, cellulare, cellulare," he said rapidly, gesturing for a cell phone. I handed him mine from my pocket and he quickly called for paramedics who spoke "Inglese" and "Giapponese".

The priest knelt back down to Lilly, and tried to asked her some questions. She answered "yes". He gently propped her against a leg of the altar. I knelt silently and held her hand. Feeling it, she looked on it and smiled, and as the priest went about with the last rites, I didn't let go for a second.

The priest quickly knelt by her, and spoke a few words with her, and blessed her. Then he went to a small box in the corner of the chapel, withdrew a flask of oil. Coming back he quickly went through a few more prayers and gestures. Sticking his thumb into the jar he anointed her head with oil and blessed her, said a few more prayers. He withdrew a small, white host from within the Tabernacle, and fed the small wafer to my dying wife. He blessed her once more, and these rites which I had hoped would not come were complete.

He stood up briefly, and told the congregation what had happened. While he was doing that, I continued to kneel next to Lilly. It was really happening. She was dying. I teared up, and my tired, wrinkled arms wrapped around my dear, sweet saint.

Lilly dryly chuckled through her tears, and her pale face blushed.
"Hisao!"

Our faces turned to the door, then, as the horns of the ambulance blared outside the small, stone chapel, and as 5 or 6 Italian paramedics in large, orange vestments walked in, checked my wife's vitals - including eyesight - and carried her out on a gurney as quietly and cleanly away from the small chapel as a team of six people could. And, as we had gotten a rental, I hobbled over to my car and followed the ambulance to Benevento.

I arrived just as they were unloading her from the ambulance at the hospital. Knowing who I was, they told me what we'd already known, that she was dying, but she was still here. So I came to her.

My dear sweet angel could not have have looked more beautiful. Even in the shade of the hospital her white face and her deep blue eyes shimmered and danced joyfully.

I nuzzled her soft cheek with my fingers. She reached out and held my hand, tenderly, looked up at me, and spoke softly:

"...I'm going home."

My eyes glistened with tears. So did hers.

"Hisao-kun... I'm going to miss you."
"...I will... too... my saint..."
"We will see each other again soon," she choked through her tears. "Very soon."
She tilted her head towards me, and took one last look at me, and smiled.
"I am glad I saw you even once," she said, as almost a final goodbye.

We held each others' hands for a few more minutes, savoring our last moments together on Earth.

At last, she reached out her arm for my face, and felt all of the wrinkles and lines of it one last time. I stroked her chin, kissed her, and her beautiful blue eyes closed for the last time.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by LOL WUT » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:09 pm

Manly Tears Were Shed at The End.
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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:14 pm

At the beginning of the chapter I wondered why you hadn't taken the opportunity to have Lilly's blindness miraculously cured...
A few lines down I got the answer ^_^°
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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:29 pm

PS: I might note that I loosely based this story on an actual miraculous healing account. If anyone recognises the name "Pietrelcina" or "Padre Pio", they may also know the name of "Gemma di Giorgio", who was born with no pupils. When Fr. Pio healed Gemma of her eyesight, she not only could see, but as the doctors will attest, she had perfect 20/20 vision - and she still didn't have any pupils.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:43 pm

Apparently the only source for that story is a book written by some Irish priest some 50 years later...
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:03 pm

How insulting! Just because he's Irish doesn't mean he's an unreliable source of information! :lol:

But yeah, I guess a testimony 50 years later might be considered dubious. Of course, that would put all of history into question (considering most histories were written long after the events under discussion had happened).

But I'm jus' sayin'.
Image

No one's required to believe this miracle, or most miracles. Even the Pope and the bishops don't command us to believe in every miracle that happens in God's creation.

But I found the story interesting, myself. And I could definitely believe it, given the Padre's reputed knack for it

Besides... do you even have this Irish priest's bibliography? ;)
Last edited by Paddy on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by M4rked0ne » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:06 pm

LOL WUT wrote:Manly Tears Were Shed at The End.
Many manly tears were shed, but these weren't tears of sadness, they were tears of joy.
I don't exactly why, but I heard the song "The best is yet to come" from MGS in my head while reading it......and it matches perfectly.

BTW, Is this the last chapter or will be there more, maybe something like "Hisao dies shortly after Lilly's death and they are reunited in afterlife"?
"You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage."

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by griffon8 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:25 pm

Paddy wrote:But yeah, I guess a testimony 50 years later might be considered dubious. Of course, that would put all of history into question (considering most histories were written long after the events under discussion had happened).
Nooooo, histories use written material from the time of it happening. For example, we know Julius Ceaser existed because we have his writings, as well as writings of people that are contemporary to him and mention him. Lots of writings. When the only material available is not contemporary to the events, there is much more scrutiny and skepticism.

Basically, the accounts used weren't called 'history' when they were written; they were called 'news'.
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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:16 pm

griffon8 wrote:
Paddy wrote:But yeah, I guess a testimony 50 years later might be considered dubious. Of course, that would put all of history into question (considering most histories were written long after the events under discussion had happened).
Nooooo, histories use written material from the time of it happening. For example, we know Julius Ceaser existed because we have his writings, as well as writings of people that are contemporary to him and mention him.
Most of the records of history consist of people writing down what other people told them they'd observed, or what they observed for themselves, not writing about writings. That's a very modern idea, writing about writings, especially given how much we write these days. People spoke rather than wrote most of the time before the printing press. In fact there's a whole line of history called "Oral Tradition", where history is passed down by word of mouth, and repeated until they know it by heart. It's how many ancient civilizations preserved their histories before they wrote them down, and without spoken word we'd be lost as to the course of most of history, recent or ancient.
Lots of writings.
The articles I've read show that around 24,000 ancient copies of the New Testament existed within 300-500 years of the actual events. Around three of those, and some odd fragments, can be dated to be within 100 years or less.

On the other hand, the earliest copies of the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman historian, can be traced to 1100 AD or so. And they've got about 20 copies of it from 1100 AD on. The earliest histories of Caesar, so my sources tell me, total about 10, and the earliest one dates around 900 AD. Pliny's got about 7 manuscripts, the earliest of which dates to around 850 AD. Tacitus and Pliny were contemporaries to the evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), and Paul, Peter, and Jude, and Caesar was only 50 years BC.

These numbers can be found on all kinds of Christian sites, such as this one. I've yet to see any atheist sites challenge those numbers or dates - or at least none on a cursory Google websearch, which surprises me. (Usually there'd be at least one, if not several, atheist sites fighting some claim or another a Christian makes about history.)
When the only material available is not contemporary to the events, there is much more scrutiny and skepticism.
Right...
Basically, the accounts used weren't called 'history' when they were written; they were called 'news'.
That's half-true. All history is "news" at some point or another, insomuch as it is new. But history is a grander form of news which has impacts for decades, even centuries or millenia, and in much of the world rather than only locally.

An accident where a cart of apples is smashed into applesauce might have been newsworthy in the village it happened in for a few weeks after it happened. But the crossing of the Rubicon was an event in history which changed the lives of everyone in the Roman Empire for centuries. And even today I still believe we are feeling the after-effects of it.

Maybe they called it "news", maybe they called it "history", or something else. But in any case, when ancient people wrote about something that had happened, it was usually something noteworthy. No sane man then would have wasted his time, ink, quills, parchment, and eyesight on anything less than earth-shaking. Sadly, we no longer have that luxury.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by Paddy » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:19 pm

M4rked0ne wrote:Many manly tears were shed, but these weren't tears of sadness, they were tears of joy.
Aw... I'm glad I didn't make you sad. :)
BTW, Is this the last chapter or will be there more, maybe something like "Hisao dies shortly after Lilly's death and they are reunited in afterlife"?
Very, very close. I will say Hisao will say something about his and Lilly's biography being written posthumously.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: A Memory Hisao has of Lilly

Post by griffon8 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Paddy wrote:The articles I've read show that around 24,000 ancient copies of the New Testament existed within 300-500 years of the actual events. Around three of those, and some odd fragments, can be dated to be within 100 years or less.

On the other hand, the earliest copies of the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman historian, can be traced to 1100 AD or so. And they've got about 20 copies of it from 1100 AD on. The earliest histories of Caesar, so my sources tell me, total about 10, and the earliest one dates around 900 AD. Pliny's got about 7 manuscripts, the earliest of which dates to around 850 AD. Tacitus and Pliny were contemporaries to the evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), and Paul, Peter, and Jude, and Caesar was only 50 years BC.

These numbers can be found on all kinds of Christian sites, such as this one. I've yet to see any atheist sites challenge those numbers or dates - or at least none on a cursory Google websearch, which surprises me. (Usually there'd be at least one, if not several, atheist sites fighting some claim or another a Christian makes about history.)
I'm not surprised because there would be no point to it. Copies of a single source still count as a single source. Facts don't get more accepted because they're published more but because more evidence supports it. Twenty billion copies of a book that asserted the world was flat wouldn't make it more true.

While the earliest histories of Caesar may total about ten, and the earliest date to 900 CE—something I am not interested in either verifying or disputing, for they are irrelevant to my point—we also have Caesar's own accounts of his military campaigns and the writings of Cicero, a contemporary of Caesar's. These are the kinds of things we depend on to verify history. Multiple sources are important when dealing with historical events.
I found out about Katawa Shoujo through the forums of Misfile. There, I am the editor of Misfiled Dreams.

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