Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

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Triscuitable
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by Triscuitable » Sat May 19, 2012 2:05 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:Seems to me like too many drawbacks for anything but lifesaving treatments and military projects.
And that's exactly how Adam Jensen got his augments in the first place.
Mirage_GSM wrote:Also, why would you neat to "control" an artificail heart?
It's not like you can control your natural one in any way.
You may not realize it, but your brain subconsciously controls every part of your body; even simple things, like fingernails and corneal muscle contraction (that's your pupils, by the way). A heart would most certainly require neuropozyne.
Mirage_GSM wrote:And we have artificial limbs today that are way better than a "fake, strapped-on arm" without any need for brain interfacing.
Except they don't let you physically "feel" them. These limbs give you a sense of touch, pain, and pressure. Like a real arm.
Mirage_GSM wrote:Anyway, seems like this is a problem with the premise of Deus ex and not with your story, so I'll stop at this point.
You haven't played them. It'd make a lot more sense if you played the games before making radical assumptions like this.

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat May 19, 2012 6:49 am

Triscuitable wrote:
Mirage_GSM wrote:Also, why would you neat to "control" an artificail heart?
It's not like you can control your natural one in any way.
You may not realize it, but your brain subconsciously controls every part of your body; even simple things, like fingernails and corneal muscle contraction (that's your pupils, by the way). A heart would most certainly require neuropozyne.
I clarify my earlier statement to "in any conscious way".
Yes, the heart is a muscle and as such receives impulses from the brain. However you do not need to consciously control these impulses, so any regulation can be done by a computer.
We do have working artificial hearts today.
We do not have working brain interfaces today (at least not the kind that require an implanted chip in the brain)
Q.E.D.

As for physically feeling with artificial limbs... Yes, that would be an improvement over most current prosthetics (though I think there are some that allow that in a rudimentary way), but I'm not sure this improvement would be worth lifelong addiction to drugs with lethal consequences of withdrawal.
I'd choose a perfectly fine "normal" prosthetic without touch any time.

And no, I haven't played it, but for the arguments I'm making I don't need to. I am comparing a fictional technology to reality, and come to the conclusion that reality works differently.
The programers of DE probably had their reasons for introducing the drug - maybe as a plot element, maybe as a means of limiting the amounts of upgrades a player can get (Shadowrun uses a mechanic for this purpse), maybe both.
I'm not saying this makes DE a bad game. From what I hear it is anything but, and I have no problems with scenarios that deviate from the normal way physics work, as long as they deviate consistently.
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nemz
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by nemz » Sat May 19, 2012 12:16 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:I clarify my earlier statement to "in any conscious way".
Yes, the heart is a muscle and as such receives impulses from the brain. However you do not need to consciously control these impulses, so any regulation can be done by a computer.
We do have working artificial hearts today.
We do not have working brain interfaces today (at least not the kind that require an implanted chip in the brain)
Q.E.D.
We have artificial hearts that beat at a steady pace or require exterior control devices, yes. An augmented heart would connect to the body's natural autonomic nervous system to give it 'awareness' of physiological needs of the body, and unlike a real heart it might ALSO allow for conscious control of it's functions to overcome unwanted stress reactions like panic attacks or to fool a lie detector.

I also really don't see the problem you're having with 'addiction' to neuropozyne. How is this any different than transplant patients needing drugs to prevent tissue rejection or from the drugs Hisao has to take daily anyway, both of which also have potentially lethal consequences if stopped as well as side effects from use? If anything it's actually a vast improvement in the situation because it requires only one substance taken once a week rather than seventeen every morning.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat May 19, 2012 6:13 pm

I, personally, would rather not take drugs of any kind. If someone decides the benefits of mentally controlling one's hearts functions (as opposed to have a computer do it, which would probabaly do a better job at it) justify a lifelong addiction to drugs, that is their decision.
In Hisao's case the whole point was to get rid of the need for permanent medication to stay alive (in addition to removing the risk of dying from overexertion, of course), so he'd probably go for a functional heart without brain interface as well.
As for drugs to prevent tissue rejection - I might be wrong, but I think those are not intended to be used permanently...
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nemz
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by nemz » Sat May 19, 2012 7:37 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:I, personally, would rather not take drugs of any kind. If someone decides the benefits of mentally controlling one's hearts functions (as opposed to have a computer do it, which would probabaly do a better job at it) justify a lifelong addiction to drugs, that is their decision.
Of course there would be computer assistance as well. Hell, what DOESN'T have a computer in it these days?

And yes, you're wrong. Transplant recipients are guaranteed to be on anti-rejection drugs for the rest of their lives unless the donor was a close relative... with today's tech, anyway. When organs can be routinely cloned from a patient's own tissues or grown from adult stem cells this will cease to be an issue, but of course the implication inherent in the very name of augments is that they are not just replacements but improvements; an augmented heart should be more efficient and more reliable than a natural transplant. Hell, it probably won't even beat but rather run continuously on variable speed electromagnetic screw propellers.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun May 20, 2012 5:50 am

Just did a bit of reading up.
Seems immunosuppressant drugs are only needed for organ transplants and not for artificial limbs, organs, bones or similar things.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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nemz
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by nemz » Sun May 20, 2012 6:19 am

Did I say otherwise? An augment would be the best available artificial option. For a natural option the best would be to use a heart cloned from your own cells, but in the case of a congenital defect like Hisao's it might be just replacing one defective heart with another. You might also notice that artificial hearts currently are only seen as a temporary measure until a transplant is available, so intentionally choosing a low-tech implant might not be a viable option if you plan to live more than 10-15 years.
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Triscuitable
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by Triscuitable » Wed May 23, 2012 10:54 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:And no, I haven't played it, but for the arguments I'm making I don't need to. I am comparing a fictional technology to reality, and come to the conclusion that reality works differently.
Then why are we arguing this in the first place?
Mirage_GSM wrote:The programers of DE probably had their reasons for introducing the drug - maybe as a plot element, maybe as a means of limiting the amounts of upgrades a player can get (Shadowrun uses a mechanic for this purpse), maybe both.
Here's a spoiler warning for those who want to play Human Revolution. It relates to something Mirage said that he doesn't understand. The hero of DE:HR is immune to the side-effects of augmentation, and as a result, he's the focal point for all augmentation research after the game. He's literally the most important character in the entire franchise because of the way his DNA is encoded. It's a plot element for anyone but Jensen. You'd do yourself well to read the wiki for a bit before continuing this.
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not saying this makes DE a bad game. From what I hear it is anything but, and I have no problems with scenarios that deviate from the normal way physics work, as long as they deviate consistently.
They don't deviate constantly. They have decent explanations for everything that you claim.

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Roamin12
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by Roamin12 » Wed May 23, 2012 11:04 pm

Triscuitable wrote:
Mirage_GSM wrote:The programers of DE probably had their reasons for introducing the drug - maybe as a plot element, maybe as a means of limiting the amounts of upgrades a player can get (Shadowrun uses a mechanic for this purpse), maybe both.
Here's a spoiler warning for those who want to play Human Revolution. It relates to something Mirage said that he doesn't understand. The hero of DE:HR is immune to the side-effects of augmentation, and as a result, he's the focal point for all augmentation research after the game. He's literally the most important character in the entire franchise because of the way his DNA is encoded. It's a plot element for anyone but Jensen. You'd do yourself well to read the wiki for a bit before continuing this.
As soon as they mentioned him not needing the drug in DE:HR, I knew something was up. I have played the original at least seven times by now, (Not a fan of Invisible War) and no matter what, the drug was always needed. That was a HUGE plot twist for the series.
Triscuitable wrote:
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not saying this makes DE a bad game. From what I hear it is anything but, and I have no problems with scenarios that deviate from the normal way physics work, as long as they deviate consistently.
They don't deviate constantly. They have decent explanations for everything that you claim.
DE is one of the few game series I have played where if there is even a small plot hole, some piece of lore out there is decent enough, and consistent enough to make things come together relatively well. The game covers it all and if there are any questions the wiki will answer it.
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Xiious
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Xiious » Thu May 24, 2012 3:02 am

i love this fanfic. i love DuesEx:Human Revolution, its one of my favourite games, and tbh i never thought of a crossover till i checked this out o.O

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Kielox
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Kielox » Thu May 24, 2012 7:04 am

It's been almost a year since the release of HR and I still giggle like a little girl when I see a "I never asked for this" joke. :) But yeah, this fanfic has been a lot of fun to read and it is very well written as well! I think all the characters' reactions were portrayed very realistically and the story is very compelling.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Part 5 Posted)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu May 24, 2012 7:41 am

Triscuitable wrote:It's a plot element for anyone but Jensen. You'd do yourself well to read the wiki for a bit before continuing this.
[quote/]
Actually, that is one of the things I knew about the plot. I didn't bring it up, because a) I didn't want to spoil the story and b) I don't see how it is relevant to what I have been posting before.
He is a character in the most recent part of the franchise, and I assumed the drug was already introduced in the earlier parts. If that assumption was wrong, it still doesn't invalidate anything I have said so far.
Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not saying this makes DE a bad game. From what I hear it is anything but, and I have no problems with scenarios that deviate from the normal way physics work, as long as they deviate consistently.
They don't deviate constantly. They have decent explanations for everything that you claim.
Read my post. I wrote "consistently" not "constantly". Also, I wasn't even referring to DE with that sentence - I cannot, because I haven't played it - but to fictional scenarios in general.
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Kayo12
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Kayo12 » Fri May 25, 2012 1:30 am

Kielox wrote:It's been almost a year since the release of HR and I still giggle like a little girl when I see a "I never asked for this" joke. :) But yeah, this fanfic has been a lot of fun to read and it is very well written as well! I think all the characters' reactions were portrayed very realistically and the story is very compelling.
Thank you for saying so, Kielox. Making the characters reactions and beliefs concerning augmentation was my main concern when writing this fic. I guess the hardest part with a crossover is making sure that the source material isn't lost, otherwise you're just cramming in characters someplace they don't belong. I'm happy so many people seemed to enjoy reading it and that they think the reasons for each person's views on augmentation were both believable and realistic.
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Xiious
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Xiious » Fri May 25, 2012 3:19 am

Your sig reminded me of the dog meme. clever. i see what you did there

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Kayo12
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Re: Deus Ex: Katawa Revolution (Complete)

Post by Kayo12 » Fri May 25, 2012 3:52 am

Xiious wrote:Your sig reminded me of the dog meme. clever. i see what you did there
Um, I'm sorry, but I don't see what I did there. Could you enlighten me?
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