A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (completed)

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Helbereth
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Helbereth » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:06 pm

JTemby wrote:
Helbereth wrote:
JTemby wrote:Pfft, you knew what I meant...
Honestly, I just saw it as an opportunity to be particularly wordy with a response. Doing so makes for good practice, I think. :D
Bahahaha, bloody show-off. :lol:
*flex*

I think I pulled something. :|

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Scissorlips
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Scissorlips » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:11 pm

random wrote:Well, I'll take for word for it

I understand it's Suzu's irrational fear of losing
Hisao because of the Seiji thing, but it's treading
near absurd at this point.
Does it really seem that way? She just told Hisao something that she's only told a handful of people, and then immediately it's right into the stress of exams. Both of them are under a lot of pressure and neither have any relationship experience, I think it kind of makes sense for her to not want to risk damaging their relationship right now, especially since he's helping her with her studying as well. Besides, the white-knighting only became an issue in the latest chapter, in her mind she hasn't had the right moment--until, possibly, now--to talk it over with him.
Mirage_GSM wrote: - She feels guilt for the death of her brother (which she is in no way responsible for.)
- She fears planning for the future (which she also has no rational reason to do.)
- She is afraid Hisao will start to treat her like a fragile doll (which... actually might have some merit, but could probably be solved by talking it over with him.)
If you've never met (or been) a high school student feeling anxiety about their future, then I simply can't help you there. Although what Nemz said is true, part of that is because of her guilt and the way she looked to her brother to learn how to grow up - not just as a person but as a narcoleptic, too.
Helbereth wrote:Saying it's emotional manipulation would implicate that Scissorlips is intentionally using illogical, irrational means to evoke such a visceral response in his readers. However, if that is accurate, then he would have enacted that diabolical plan in the very beginning. Upon review, that theory doesn't hold water considering the story has never relied on such underhanded means to captivate its audience.
I will be prepared to accept any and all namecalling in the near future. But one thing that I think deserves reiterating is that my protagonist is an emotional, somewhat traumatized teenage girl. Should I repeat that? A teenage. Girl. I personally don't see it as any absurd leap of logic that someone like that would attach blame to themselves, when she was the one who needed to go to the city, and she didn't think to bring Miki along. And besides, if not her, who else is there to blame? She was seventeen at the time, I don't see her being able to write it off as "bad luck, these things happen". Is her guilt, as well as her fear of the future irrational? Yes. She's a teenage girl. Is it absurd? I don't agree.
Helbereth wrote:*flex*

I think I pulled something. :|
I am quoting this just so that this reply ends on a lighter note, haha.
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AlchemistR
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by AlchemistR » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:27 pm

Scissorlips wrote:~long reply~
I completely agree with the author. Not to be a suck-up or anything, but I can kinda sync with certain characters in stories, and while Suzu's thought process may be irrational, that's normal for her age.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by theartificial » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:32 pm

Half on/off-topic.
I'm glad see a lot of member having my Suzu Suzuki userbar in their signatures. It's also a sign that there are a lot of fans of your Suzu story Mr. Scissorlips. ^-^
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Roamin12 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:48 pm

God damn man, I really don't know which one I would chose, so go-go save-state!
I mean, I do like to go the swimming pool here at the school every now and then.
That seems like a bad thing to do if you are at danger of falling asleep all the time.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:58 am

Scissorlips wrote:If you've never met (or been) a high school student feeling anxiety about their future, then I simply can't help you there.
There's a qualitative difference between feeling anxious about one's future and getting a nervous breakdown every time someone mentions university...
I personally don't see it as any absurd leap of logic that someone like that would attach blame to themselves, when she was the one who needed to go to the city, and she didn't think to bring Miki along. And besides, if not her, who else is there to blame? She was seventeen at the time, I don't see her being able to write it off as "bad luck, these things happen". Is her guilt, as well as her fear of the future irrational? Yes. She's a teenage girl. Is it absurd? I don't agree.
No one's saying she just should write it off as bad luck. Sure, in this situation you'd ask yourself "What would have happened if I hadn't...?"
But the Suzu in your story is completely unable to step back and think about the whole thing rationally. With her kind of issues she should have gotten psychiatric help a long time ago... (I'm not sure if you mentioned something about that in previous chapters, but she doesn't seem to be seeing any counselor at the moment, and if she ever did they wouldn't have let her go...)
It's kinda unfair to expect Hisao to resolve that mess ;-)
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Pro PandaBear » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:43 am

No one's saying she just should write it off as bad luck. Sure, in this situation you'd ask yourself "What would have happened if I hadn't...?"
But the Suzu in your story is completely unable to step back and think about the whole thing rationally.
She really can't think about it rationally. She went through a traumatizing event which probably lead to moderate or heavy depression. That on top of the guilt and stress, it was just too much for her. When you go through so much, your brain conditions itself to avoid the thing that started it. This case being Seiji's death. Her brain created irrational fears of the future because those thoughts make her think about Seiji. It's the same with her other irrational fears. Basically her brain says "Last time this happened it didn't end well, so I'm not going to let it happen again". She can still step back and think about it rationally and she can get past it, but it's something she would have to be trying very hard to do. Plus, like Scissorlips said, she's a teenage girl.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:11 pm

My point was that someone who is as traumatized as that should be seeing a psychiatrist for help. I'm no psychiatrist myself, but she probably should be taking medication against those depressions, too.
At the start of the story it seems like Suzu is just a narcoleptic girl who suffers from nightmares. We gradually learn that her problems run MUCH deeper than that, but it seems like
a) neither her parents nor all the staff at Yamaku noticed or
b) they just don't care.

I'm not sure how the story got to that point. Maybe Scissorlips didn't plan for her condition to be that serious at the beginning, and it just went out of control after all the foreboding.
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griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by txalolrn9 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:38 pm

I believe through Death, we did learn that Suzu did see a therapist
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Tysan1 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Unfortunately, Psychiatric help is like any other medical assistance. If they do not know anything is wrong, they can not help you with your problems. From my reading of the story so far (and admittedly, this is only my opinion), I get the feeling that Hisao is the first person who Suzu has told that she blames herself for her brothers death.

As far as no one else noticing her depression: She's spent most of the time since her brothers' death at school, so her parents would not have seen her depression. Miki knows she has nightmares about the accident, but not that she blames herself for it. And everyone else (teachers/students) probably thinks that her issues are related to her narcolepsy.

So, for me at least, it's quite easy to follow her behavior.

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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Zombiedude101 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:09 pm

Excellent...

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Here I am, away from a net connection for a few days and I find the thread has advanced by several pages. Well, I've read the recent two additions and I must say, I am pleased.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Bagheera » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:47 pm

It might also help to point out that the Japanese are a lot less likely to seek psychiatric help/counseling than most Westerners are, as it's something that Just Isn't Done in Japan. That's changing these days (quite a lot since the turn of the millennium, in fact), and Suzu's parents seem awfully progressive in this regard, but even still resistance to the idea remains pretty strong.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Lumi » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:01 pm

Great everything, bro. Keep up the good work.

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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Scissorlips » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:09 am

Lumi wrote:Great everything, bro. Keep up the good work.

Haters gonna hate.
Thanks. I plan to update within the next few days.
I need to make it clear though that no one here is hating. Honest, no pulled-punches feedback is very, very useful to a writer, and it's valuable to me. While I might not agree with the points that some people make, that their questions were raised at all usually means there's room to improve, and I know that's the case here.
theartificial wrote:Half on/off-topic.
I'm glad see a lot of member having my Suzu Suzuki userbar in their signatures. It's also a sign that there are a lot of fans of your Suzu story Mr. Scissorlips. ^-^
Maybe so. There were always Suzu fans though, long before I came around, and not everyone who considers themselves a fan of her has read or even likes my story though, I'm sure.
Mirage_GSM wrote:No one's saying she just should write it off as bad luck. Sure, in this situation you'd ask yourself "What would have happened if I hadn't...?"
But the Suzu in your story is completely unable to step back and think about the whole thing rationally. With her kind of issues she should have gotten psychiatric help a long time ago... (I'm not sure if you mentioned something about that in previous chapters, but she doesn't seem to be seeing any counselor at the moment, and if she ever did they wouldn't have let her go...)
It's kinda unfair to expect Hisao to resolve that mess ;-)
Mirage_GSM wrote:My point was that someone who is as traumatized as that should be seeing a psychiatrist for help. I'm no psychiatrist myself, but she probably should be taking medication against those depressions, too.
At the start of the story it seems like Suzu is just a narcoleptic girl who suffers from nightmares. We gradually learn that her problems run MUCH deeper than that, but it seems like
a) neither her parents nor all the staff at Yamaku noticed or
b) they just don't care.

I'm not sure how the story got to that point. Maybe Scissorlips didn't plan for her condition to be that serious at the beginning, and it just went out of control after all the foreboding.

I don't like explaining things that the reader wouldn't know, so this all comes from previous chapters, it's just been some time so I don't expect people to remember every detail. After the accident, she missed about a month of school (which admittedly should probably have been longer), and she did see a therapist for an unspecified amount of time. Here are a few things that have been somewhat loosely implied (or shown in extra scenes) but never directly stated: when she got back to school, she was fairly stable and able to function, she was just struggling with her nightmares and had never had much of a social life outside of being with her brother, so it was only after that when she and Miki grew especially close. At the point where the story begins, Suzu is stable and able to live like a normal girl again, she just has her constant dreams of playing battleship as a subconscious way to manage her fears and guilt. Her condition begins to worsen again as Hisao steps in and starts to fill the shoes left by her brother, and as she gets closer to graduation. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't see her condition as being bad enough to warrant being institutionalized, and I don't think she's too damaged for Hisao to help her come to grips with her situation. I'll admit that tension has been pretty high in the story for a good bit here, but I don't think I've gone quite overboard enough to portray her as a shambling wreck, not to say that you were implying I did.
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Re: A pseudo-pseudo Suzu route (updated 8/10)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:58 am

I don't see her condition as being bad enough to warrant being institutionalized.
Nor did I imply that.
Yes, she should see a psychiatrist.
Maybe she should take medication.
No, there shouldn't be any need for institutionalization.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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