Full Flowcharts with Scenes

Questions, answers and issues regarding releases.
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geekahedron
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:33 pm

DeleV wrote:Anyway, I don't see any mistakes in the diagram, but you did miss a scene. "Quiet" should be in between Sip part 2 and Don't Panic for the Hanako path.
Oh, man, how did that happen? Actually, I know how ... "Quiet" is the only scene in the game where making a certain decision takes you immediately to a brand new scene, rather than continuing the scene you were in before moving on. i was debating some way to represent that difference and ended up forgetting to put the scene in entirely. Thanks for noticing that.

I've made that change as well as the ones discussed above, and I'll just be uploading the amended versions in place of the existing ones.
Shizune has a different picture for act 4, blown up so you can see both characters' faces. I still can't bring myself to call it a "good" ending though, compared to the good and neutral endings for the other arcs.
The misplaced arrow in Hanako's chart has been relegated to its proper layer.
The credits in Lilly's good path are now called "Good Ending."

I saw someone else with version numbers for his flowcharts, which I'm now thinking might not have been a bad idea, but at this point I think the project is nearing completion so it's probably not worth the bother. Well, on second thought, why not? I'll label the ones I am uploading now "v1.0.0" and go from there.
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VenomSymbiote
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by VenomSymbiote » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:16 pm

geekahedron, I just wanted to say thanks! These flowcharts are real nice. Definitely much more aesthetically pleasing than all the other ones I've seen. I have to cover the last few points in the game to get 100%, so I'm looking forward to using these. Good job!

lewkas

Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by lewkas » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Is there really no "Good End" for Shizune? Sad panda is sad :(

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quellsnarg
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by quellsnarg » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:25 pm

lewkas wrote:Is there really no "Good End" for Shizune? Sad panda is sad :(
Pssht, Shizune's good ending is one of my favorite endings! It's realistic for everybody and I thought it was really great because they were all friends and reconciled, even if they were going separate ways. It's not in-your-face romance like the other girls, but Hisao will always chase Shizune and Shizune has finally seen him as an equal, so I really liked it! Your mileage may vary though and I get why people don't like it.

OT: Really beautiful charts. *_*
Shizune >>> Emi > Rin = Hanako >> Lilly

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geekahedron
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:28 pm

lewkas wrote:Is there really no "Good End" for Shizune? Sad panda is sad :(
Given the subject matter of the thread, I'm not sure the spoiler tags are necessary, but okay. :p

I'm using the following convention, based on the different endings: a good ending means Hisao and the girl are a couple and stay together, a neutral ending means the Hisao and the girl are still friends, but not together, and bad ending means that Hisao and the girl are not even on good terms at the end.

So, what is supposed to be Shizune's good end falls squarely into the "neutral" category in my book. It's still a fulfilling end to the story, all told, so there's no reason to be sad about it. ;)
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:58 pm

Made some changed to the Act 1 chart, mostly aesthetic changes to make the whole thing narrower. Also reordered some of the colored arrows in the middlish section so the colors flow through more naturally, if such a thing makes sense. Anyway Act 1 v1.0.1 is attached to the first post now...
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VenomSymbiote
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by VenomSymbiote » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:59 pm

I can't believe none of us thought of the idea of labeling these charts by version number before! It certainly helps keep track of which ones are up-to-date.

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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:34 pm

VenomSymbiote wrote:I can't believe none of us thought of the idea of labeling these charts by version number before! It certainly helps keep track of which ones are up-to-date.
*casts detect sarcasm*

Like I said before, I added the version numbers after I saw them on someone else's charts.
But yes, it is a very useful and natural way to keep track of the different versions of the charts, and I kind of wish I had kept copies of all the old versions just to see their progression over time.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by griffon8 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:03 pm

Hmm, I was sure three of the Rin decisions led to staying in the art club and three led to quitting it, but I wouldn't have bet money on it.
I found out about Katawa Shoujo through the forums of Misfile. There, I am the editor of Misfiled Dreams.

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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:13 pm

griffon8 wrote:Hmm, I was sure three of the Rin decisions led to staying in the art club and three led to quitting it, but I wouldn't have bet money on it.
Rin's path has an incredible number of possible choices, so to play every combination will take an absurd length of time and it's one of the arcs I have not completed fully in an exhaustive manner. However, it can be simplified with a few assumptions, which I have yet to find any reason to doubt:

First, I am working on the assumption that the choices in the first act have no effect on the later stages of the game, outcome-wise, other than determining which girl's arc you are going to be playing. Testing every possibility of each girl's arc along with each permutation of first-act choices that get you there would be ridiculous. Fortunately, I have seen nothing to suggest that this assumption is invalid.

For Rin's path, I am assuming that the first three sets of decisions have no later effect on the game other than setting up the choices available in "In Her Own Image."

After that scene, I have gone through each possibility and determined that the choices lead to either "Rose-Tinted Glasses" or "BADAAN!" as shown in my chart (and confirmed that the choice in "Dandelions" has no effect on anything other than dialogue).

My third assumption is that after the choice in one of those two scenes ("Rose-Tinted Glasses" or "BADAAN!"), earlier choices in the arc have no effect on the outcome. I have played each possible combination of choices from those four starting points to the end to create the chart you see here. Testing earlier choices all the way through to the end would mean an exponentially larger number of trials, which I have yet to do, but again, I have seen nothing to suggest the this assumption is invalid.

TL;DR: I've tested it a whole bunch and it works the way it's shown in the chart.

Two choices lead to "BADAAN!" and the other four lead to "Rose-Tinted Glasses" (but this choice ultimately has no bearing on the final outcome other than which of those two scenes you see).
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geekahedron
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Re: Full Flowcharts with Scenes

Post by geekahedron » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:44 pm

Rin's chart has been updated with some slight aesthetic changes. The arrow color was changed to red to match the theme of the chart; in hindsight I'm not really sure why I was using that odd orange. A few arrows were moved to less awkward positions relative to the decision points, and some scene blocks were moved to the correct layers.

I also added a little note explaining the significance of the colors in the first decision sets. I may do a similar sort of explanation or legend for act 1 as a general "how to use this chart" in spite of my desire and efforts to keep things as minimalistic and straightforward as possible. There have been enough questions that a simple explanation on the charts might go a long way, hopefully without ruining the simple aesthetic appeal of the chart. Or charts, if the results is unobtrusive enough to warrant adding it to each of the charts? We will see.
Last edited by geekahedron on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full Flowcharts with Scenes

Post by geekahedron » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:35 am

As a result of feedback I've recolored and rearranged Rin's chart again, so that the colors are more consistently with the "red = good, black = bad/neutral" theme for this chart. I'm still trying to figure out a better way to organize it, although I'll admit to a little bemusement that people are saying it's confusing. It's certainly a long playthrough, and there are a lot of choices that have only minimal impact on the later routes, but I think I've dumbed it down (so to speak) as much as possible, to a linear path with only one or two routes to track at any point.

One thing I have been hesitating to add is a legend or instructions or something similar, both because I would like the chart itself to be as self-explanatory as possible and because I am trying to eliminate as much clutter by way of extra text, arrows, and extraneous paths as possible. It may be better in the long run, I guess. Once I design a suitable format for the legend, all the charts will likely get an update.

For now, the slightly enhanced Rin chart:
rin-1.0.2.png
Rin v1.0.2
rin-1.0.2.png (1.91 MiB) Viewed 4025 times
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Re: Flowcharts (SPOILERS ABOUND)

Post by griffon8 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:53 pm

Too bad this thread hasn't been stickied like Feuver's did.
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yummines
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Re: Full Flowcharts with Scenes

Post by yummines » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:21 pm

looking at these charts, i have no clue how i managed to get the good ending with Rin on my first try...

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Re: Full Flowcharts with Scenes

Post by Camoufrage » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:35 pm

I always found it annoying how one choice all the way at the end of the game can give you the neutral ending :(

Luckily, I got all the good ones without trying.

Great charts though!

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