Full Flowcharts with Scenes

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geekahedron
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Re: Flowcharts (SPOILERS ABOUND)

Post by geekahedron » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:55 am

guest2 wrote:I find the sheer number of lanes and arrows in the Act 1 chart to be pretty confusing and hard to follow, but maybe that's just me. It works well in the Emi one, since there isn't as much going on. I don't have any good suggestions for how else you should do Act 1, though.
Yeah, that seems to be the tradeoff. I don't want the chart cluttered with multiple copies of each scene and decision, so that there is a definite flow to the whole thing and it shows more accurately how the routes interact with one another. The result of that, though, is that there as many as seven different "states" of the game at any given point (six possible endings, and two paths that arrive at Kenjis bad end). I'm representing those states with colors. You only have to follow one color at a time, but it's still a lot to look at when everything comes together.

Would it help, maybe, if it were clearer how the colors move and change as they "pass through" the decisions? Maybe something like this:
act1p.png
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That still looks a little complicated, but I'm open to suggestions to make it more readable.
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Re: Flowcharts (SPOILERS ABOUND)

Post by newnar » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:57 am

Yume Dream wrote:Did anyone find the harem ending?
http://rule34-data-000.paheal.net/_imag ... amichi.png
It doesn't exist but there are some nice artists to show what would happen
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NoOne3 wrote:Imagine a male Rin who secretly likes Hanako.
this
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:08 pm

Here's another approach that might help clean things up: if the choices in a given scene don't affect the color ("state") of a given path, maybe just bypass the choices? I'm hesitant about the idea in cases such as Emi's arc, where certain choices are not even included in some of the scenes depending on your earlier decisions, and there would be no way to differentiate between those cases and the ones where choices simply don't matter.

Maybe that was a needlessly wordy explanation of a simple concept. Bearing the value of a thousand words, however, here is Lilly's rather simple arc implemented using that very idea:


I think I'll redo Emi's next to see what I can come up with for clarification.

Edit: Lilly's chart had a typo in it! Fixed now. :oops:
Edit 2: Updated Lilly's chart with new arrow styles to match other charts
Edit 3: Updated banner
Final edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
Last edited by geekahedron on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:52 pm

...aaand here's a slight revamp of Emi's arc using the same ideas. Regarding the issues I just mentioned, decisions that are completely skipped are indicated with a dotted line, and as before only those that matter actually go through the decision blocks.


This weekend I'll tackle Act 1 in the same way and see how well that cleans things up.

Feedback is great! Please and thank you!

Edit: Updated banner
Final edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by griffon8 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 am

Nice work! I like how you took my suggestion to make the act splits more explicit and used that to add additional art to the backgrounds.

One mistake I noticed. In Act 1, the purplish line that indicates you can choose between the Lilly/Hanako branch and the Shizune branch in 'Lunch Evolution Theory' doesn't also show you can reject them both and read your book.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:48 am

griffon8 wrote:Nice work! I like how you took my suggestion to make the act splits more explicit and used that to add additional art to the backgrounds.

One mistake I noticed. In Act 1, the purplish line that indicates you can choose between the Lilly/Hanako branch and the Shizune branch in 'Lunch Evolution Theory' doesn't also show you can reject them both and read your book.
Right you are! I did most of this from memory, but guess I should have double-checked everything with my notes. I'm just finishing up a revamp of Act 1 anyway, so that's easy enough to add. Thanks for catching it!

I'm attaching the latest version of act 1, which is by far the most complicated act. I've bypassed decisions that don't have any effect on the state, and made it clearer when the color of the arrow is changed by a particular decision. Some things simply can't be avoided; for instance, there's no getting around the fact that there are twelve possible ways to go through "Cold War" which lead to eight different routes.

Do the changes help? What else would make it easier to follow, if anything?

Update: new banner style
Final edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
Last edited by geekahedron on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:52 pm

Just finished Rin's chart! I think it helps simplify things with only two paths to worry about ... I colored the first sets of decisions rather than have eight different colors at "In Her Own Image."


Next I'll do Hanako's chart ... and Shizune's, to complete the set even if her arc doesn't really warrant much of a flowchart. :roll:

Edit: Updated banner
Final edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
Last edited by geekahedron on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by Raburesu » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:16 pm

God, I love these, geekahedron. *__* Not to understate the efforts of others' charts, but these are so organized and aesthetically pleasing, it's just omg. Definitely what I'll be consulting after getting through everything without help the first time. Especially since...
geekahedron wrote:The stark white background I've seen in other charts is practically blinding in low-light
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:17 am

Raburesu wrote:God, I love these, geekahedron. *__* Not to understate the efforts of others' charts, but these are so organized and aesthetically pleasing, it's just omg. Definitely what I'll be consulting after getting through everything without help the first time.
Thanks! I'm enjoying working on these and it's great to know that my efforts are helping other people, too. The aesthetics of the charts are just as fun, and each chart gives me new ideas to spruce things up a bit. :D

Here's Hanako's chart, with a few added visual bonuses:
Edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
Last edited by geekahedron on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:27 am

Here's Shizune. This one didn't take long ... and I've updated the other ones with similar banners.

Edit: All attachments moved to first post in thread
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by DeleV » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:51 am

These are excellent!

A few small comments though:
- Using the Shizune bad end CG as background for act 4 is rather .... mean. Some of us really loved that path you know. :wink:
- The last arrow in Hanako Act 3 goes over the question box.
- You missed the "Good ending" box on the Lilly chart.
- Act 2 of Rin is not really clear. I know that the choices of the first three options determine the set of options for the fourth, but I can't make out how from the chart.

I'm still trying to see what I can make of the act 1 chart. :wink:

Good job and thanks for making them visually appealing as well.

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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by EvilDragon » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:29 am

How do these awesome flowcharts compare with Feuvre's? I mean in accuracy?

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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:09 am

A few small comments though:
DeleV wrote:- Using the Shizune bad end CG as background for act 4 is rather .... mean. Some of us really loved that path you know. :wink:
It wasn't intended to be mean, honest! The "Three Musketeers" graphic has Shizune right in the middle, covered up by all the boxes, so I wanted something that actually showed her on the side. I'll revisit this to see if there's something better, maybe a frame from the act 2 animation?
DeleV wrote:- The last arrow in Hanako Act 3 goes over the question box.
Ah, good catch, thanks. I'll fix that shortly
DeleV wrote:- You missed the "Good ending" box on the Lilly chart.
This was actually intentional; the last scene of Lilly's good ending does in fact come after the credits. I suppose it should at least say "Good Credits" instead of "Credits," though.
DeleV wrote:- Act 2 of Rin is not really clear. I know that the choices of the first three options determine the set of options for the fourth, but I can't make out how from the chart.
The decisions in "In Her Own Image" correspond to the colors of the previous three sets of decisions. If you picked "It's refreshing" at "Things You Like," for example, the option "Because it would be exciting" appears at "In Her Own Image" (because they are the same color). At that point it only matters whether you pick one of the two options on the right, or one of the four on the left. I was trying to do this without something like 21 different arrows when there are only two possible states, and I'm certainly open to suggestions how it might be made clearer.
DeleV wrote:I'm still trying to see what I can make of the act 1 chart. :wink:
I'm thinking about making a legend to explain. Basically, you follow arrows of one color, which color may change as it passes through certain decision blocks. If a set of decisions don't change the color of a given arrow, they pass between the decisions (you still pick one, but it just doesn't affect the outcome).
DeleV wrote:Good job and thanks for making them visually appealing as well.
Thank you! I'm glad people like them :) Thank you for the feedback; it helps me improve them not just by correcting mistakes, but in seeing what people think of the layouts (when they can't see what I was thinking when I make them :P).
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by geekahedron » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:12 am

EvilDragon wrote:How do these awesome flowcharts compare with Feuvre's? I mean in accuracy?
To my knowledge, these are completely correct. I have been systematically playing through each route and recording the results, and while I'm not technically done (there are literally thousands of paths through the entire game), I'm quite confident that these are accurate.

If someone does find a discrepancy in my charts, please let me know! Thanks again everyone for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
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DeleV
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Re: Flowcharts (Cleaned up, no repeated scenes)

Post by DeleV » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:05 am

geekahedron wrote:The decisions in "In Her Own Image" correspond to the colors of the previous three sets of decisions. If you picked "It's refreshing" at "Things You Like," for example, the option "Because it would be exciting" appears at "In Her Own Image" (because they are the same color). At that point it only matters whether you pick one of the two options on the right, or one of the four on the left. I was trying to do this without something like 21 different arrows when there are only two possible states, and I'm certainly open to suggestions how it might be made clearer.
It's actually ok this way. I thought the options were predetermined sets. But they're like you say, one option per choice.
DeleV wrote:I'm still trying to see what I can make of the act 1 chart. :wink:
I'm thinking about making a legend to explain. Basically, you follow arrows of one color, which color may change as it passes through certain decision blocks. If a set of decisions don't change the color of a given arrow, they pass between the decisions (you still pick one, but it just doesn't affect the outcome).[/quote]

Luckily I know the act 1 chart pretty much by heart since I wanted to complete the last 2% in the Act 1 release, so checking it wasn't too difficult. Your method works quite well if you're following a path to the end. However, backtracking from a result is not so clear because the intent of the choices is lost. For instance, in Lunch Evolution Theory, you only get the options for Hanako/Lilly and Shizune if you chose two of their previous options. That information makes it a lot easier to pick a route than it is to follow the arrows.

Anyway, I don't see any mistakes in the diagram, but you did miss a scene. "Quiet" should be in between Sip part 2 and Don't Panic for the Hanako path.

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