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Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:04 pm
by MadDogV2
What would be awesome is if Emi's prosthetics would morph into various objects. Like for one of her air moves they turn into blades and she does a literal "scissor kick". Drop kick with springs to send them to the corner. Rocket thrusters for her superjump, if the game will have that mechanic. Literal axe kick. Jackhammmer stomp on downed opponents. Chain and hook air throw. Low attack with chainsaw. Handstand with drills to the face. You get the idea. For sure she should have a "starting block" special stance, like She-Hulk does in MvC3.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:38 pm
by Hitman3256
Myself being 'almost' a black belt in tae kwon do, I love using kicks all the time in sparring and competitions.
Rin only have legs, I'd love to see some pretty cool kicking combos going on! Spinning around and stuff ^^

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:03 pm
by Sajomir
iLiekCorn wrote:Hello.

In regards to applying for a position on the team:

As far as "spriters" go, is that restricted only to pixel sprites (the character's in-game animations)?
I ask because, although I'm not much of a sprite maker, I could probably draw the character's "select screen portraits" and/or "special attack portraits/animations" if you planned on having any of either.
It's not my best work, but for a little fun, I drew a parody portrait of Rin in the style of Street Fighter Alpha 3.
Hey Corn! Thanks very much for the interest. I'm curious to see what your normal drawing style is like when you're not trying to sprite or emulate another style. Do you have a deviantArt or some other gallery?


@hitman3256:
You betcha! ;) I've got some awesome goodies in store.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:56 pm
by Meower
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Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:02 pm
by iLiekCorn
Hey Corn! Thanks very much for the interest. I'm curious to see what your normal drawing style is like when you're not trying to sprite or emulate another style. Do you have a deviantArt or some other gallery?
Hi Sajomir.

Believe it or not, my normal art style isn't all that different from how I drew that portrait, I usually like to add a little bit more detail to eyes. XP

Here's a link to my DA account:

http://zero-q.deviantart.com/

I haven't added anything particularly good in a while, but oh well ^_^

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:24 am
by Beoran
Oblivious K wrote: Thank you for the heads up!

We have taken a look at paintown already. It did look promising, but what paintown is, is a separate 2d side scroll game with mugen running inside of it as a separate thing. This engine did look very promising, but when we tested it out we were disappointed. The network capability is not available to the mugen part of the game. One of the reasons I pushed to stop going with MUGEN is that it was not open source, and that network play might make or break the game. While paintown is open source, it would require some modifications. Since non of us are versed in python (which is what paintown is written in iirc) it very well might take just as much work as making our own engine with slick.
I fully agree that you should use an open source engine, and I'm glad to see you've considered Paintown. I can see your dilemma: you'd either have to fork Paintown and get used to programming in python (pygame), or start afresh, but in a language you're more familiar with (I assume Java). I can see why you'd be thinking of going the java/slick way. However, I think that, even though I'm not a python fan myself (I'm more into Ruby), learning python if you already know java may be easier that rewriting a fighting game engine from scratch in java. Java is a verbose, slower to program and less flexible to use language than python. And Python with pygame has a proven track record (look at the original KS game!).

Oh, I found something interesting: http://code.google.com/p/jmugen/ This could be a good starting point for programming in Java.

Ultimately, though, the choice is in the hands of those who <ill do the actual programming. All I want to say is, don't underestimate the effort of starting from scratch. You'll be in in for the long haul, which is probably, optimistically speaking, 2 to 3 years before this game is finished. If any of you people involved feel that you don't have such a determination, then you should probably look into shortening this term.

Kind Regards,

B.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:16 pm
by ObliviousKnowledge
Beoran wrote:
I fully agree that you should use an open source engine, and I'm glad to see you've considered Paintown. I can see your dilemma: you'd either have to fork Paintown and get used to programming in python (pygame), or start afresh, but in a language you're more familiar with (I assume Java). I can see why you'd be thinking of going the java/slick way. However, I think that, even though I'm not a python fan myself (I'm more into Ruby), learning python if you already know java may be easier that rewriting a fighting game engine from scratch in java. Java is a verbose, slower to program and less flexible to use language than python. And Python with pygame has a proven track record (look at the original KS game!).

Oh, I found something interesting: http://code.google.com/p/jmugen/ This could be a good starting point for programming in Java.

Ultimately, though, the choice is in the hands of those who <ill do the actual programming. All I want to say is, don't underestimate the effort of starting from scratch. You'll be in in for the long haul, which is probably, optimistically speaking, 2 to 3 years before this game is finished. If any of you people involved feel that you don't have such a determination, then you should probably look into shortening this term.

Kind Regards,

B.
I am fully aware of the arguments you have stated. Yes java can be slower than other languages out there, but we are not looking to make a Crysis quality game. Java will be adequate for what we need. There are cases where java is faster than c/c++, it depends on what you are doing in your code. There have also been a few successful games written in java already, some of which are on steam, and two of the most well known games are minecraft, and runescape.

What do you mean by "slower to program and less flexible to use language"? what is your experience programming in java? From my experience it is a hell of a lot easier to write a program in java.


@Meower

It has kind of morphed to a closer view with a speed blur effect between buildings/areas as you choose a different option, like your running to the different area.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:58 pm
by Beoran
Good to hear you're level headed, I think you may have a chance at getting this off the ground.

Yes, java is likely easier than C or C++, but maybe not so much compared to other languages. I'm experienced with java, but I prefer to use jruby (ruby on java VM) because for me, personally it's much easier and faster to develop in that. But your mileage may vary, so I'll leave it at that. :)

Kind Regards,

B.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:50 pm
by Meower
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Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:54 pm
by Dr. Robotnik
I'm not an artist and I have no idea how to code, but I do have some ideas for the girls:

Rin: I think the best choice for her would be Diddy Kong style gameplay, involving stage control through the use of spilling buckets of paint (light: small distance, disappears almost immediately, easy to combo into. medium: medium sized puddles, permanent until activated, can't be combo'd into. hard: covers large distance, disappears after a couple seconds, can't be combo'd into), which she would spill on the floor and any character (except herself) who steps or lands in that area would slip and fall. As for normal moves, her lighter attacks would be used to combo into paint, and her mediums and harder attacks would be used for either pressure or mix-ups. Her light normals and pressure moves wouldn't be that damaging, although her mix-up's would be. She'd be a very ground based character, so I think her aerials would serve better as anti-airs than as regular moves. No idea what her other specials would be. Her super would be a quick, heavy rain that would spawn multiple puddles all over the stage. I'd give her 1,000 health (assuming the average health in this game is 1,000).

Emi: She'd be a speed based character with a command dash, much like El Fuerte (except, y'know, good). Her light normals would be very fast, high priority moves that would allow her to counter and take the lead, while her harder normals would be high knockback attacks that would launch the opponent, allowing for across-the-stage ground combos or ground to air combos. Her light aerials would probably just be combo moves, while her hard aerials would be spikes, which will be vital to her anti-air game and will be the finishers for her ground to air combos. As for other specials, I can't really think of anything aside from addons to her command dash (light: standing attack, medium: sliding attack that knocks down and must be blocked low, high: jumping attack that launches grounded opponents, ends at the peak of the jump, and must be blocked high). No ideas for super, would give her 900 health.

Hanako: I'm thinking she'd work best as a Phoenix-type character, with low health and a super that transforms her into the best character in the game on death (Dark Hanako from her bad ending). She'd be a rather plain character with no amazing specials and below damage moves, and her combos would serve only to build meter. Her lighter normals would be combo moves, and her harder normals would be horizontal launchers for zoning purposes. She could activate her super as soon as she gets it, although it would bring her down to half health and she would die after 30 seconds regardless. On activation of her super, she would move extremely fast and her moves would be 3x stronger. Her projectile would be a billiard (pretty good range, slowly arks downward, button pressed only determines damage), and her anti-air would be her swinging a doll or something (high knockback regardless of button pressed. light: bad range, less damage, short recovery, can be combo'd into, medium: good range, decent recovery [longer than light, but still safe on block for the most part], can't be combo'd into, hard: excellent range, long recovery, can't be combo'd into). 700 health.

Shizune: For this one, you would actually play as Misha. You get Shizune onto the stage by using a special move to place her desk in front of you (button pressed does nothing). This will be the only special move Misha has, however, because all of your other specials will come from Shizune, who has powerful projectiles. There are two strategies here: With the Misha strategy, it's to place Shizune in an area where her projectiles are still useful while being too far away for the opponent to get to her, which will mean you're doing the most work with Misha. With the Shizune strategy, it's to get your opponent to the area where Shizune is most effective (probably in a corner), and use Misha to keep them there. Shizune will be able to be attacked, but Misha and Shizune do not both get hitstun when one is attacked, which means that you can still use specials when Misha is getting combo'd, and you can still move and use normals while Shizune is (Shizune will not be able to be moved when she's being attacked). Misha and Shizune will share the same HP and meter, but only Misha will be able to be stunned. Shizune's specials include her throwing a folder horizontally (light: comes out very fast, slows down quickly, medium: consistently a medium speed throughout, hard: comes out slow, speeds up quickly) and a package that she throws diagonally (light: thrown at about a 80* angle, comes out fast, lingers slowly at the end, disappears shortly after arching downward, medium: thrown at about a 60* angle, consistently a medium speed throughout, disappears shortly after arching downward, hard: thrown at a 45* angle, comes out slowly but quickly speeds up, disappears shortly after arching downward), both of which can be thrown behind Shizune by inputting the command backward. Their super would be Shizune taking out a giant folder and doing a shinku hadoken with all the papers. 900 health, takes 33% less damage when Shizune is on the field (I would make it 1,200 base, but then people might just not use Shizune).

I have no idea what Lilly would do, not because of her blindness, but because I can't imagine anything except for literally making her either Marth or Rolento. I had a hard time coming up with Hanako's idea as well, before just rehashing my idea for Hisao's super.

Also, this is just a suggestion, I'm not demanding anyone do anything.

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:38 am
by ObliviousKnowledge
I saw this... almost died laughing... then figured we should try and include a finishing move like that in the game... we will see.
Mishimmie image #2598

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:21 am
by Meower
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Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:50 am
by Sajomir
Meower wrote: I hope the devs read these ;m;
We read them. :)

Keep in mind, we're far enough in that one girl's design is more or less set in stone, and we have the general idea for two more. It's still fun to read, though!

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:19 pm
by Dr. Robotnik
I really dig the way you're shaping her, but I'd also love if the hitboxes for her attacks were just as a bit smaller as her own hurtbox (she's still a midget of a woman after all) to balance her speedy attacks. I'd also love it if her kicks were very prone to stunning, wall bouncing and overall destabilizing the opponent, yet they'd have ludicrous recovery and would be extremely punishable. Sort of a high risk high reward read for good players.
Also, one of her supers, possibly the level 1 one so it would be balanced better in damage out put, should be a homage to Holly Summer's rockets-from-the-prosthetic-leg attack (see here at 2:18): it could be a bit long to execute, as in it'd be easy to block or even dodge the homing rockets coming from the sky, but if you either are right next to Emi and/or you were combo'd or bounce'd it'd be a very deadly attack. It should also have a punishable recovery.
Of course she'll have smaller hitboxes, due to her size. Also, I did say that her hard normals would be high knockback moves. I like the idea for her super, except I'm not sure that would fit the aesthetic of the game...at all.
I'm really against that. Transforming characters are never fun to play against, to me. I really wish she'd be more of a zoner to keep track of her personality ingame. She'd be able to shyly waggle a book in front of her and chain it, like the guy from some pages ago, for her normals, she'd also be able to launch her books in odd motions (think of Peacock from Skullgirls' Avery throw, that does that odd arc). Billiard balls would also make up for a very cool and fast projectile that takes a while to recovery from shooting (so it can't be spammed) but deals a good chunk of damage at a very high speed. Her throw could be an overly zealous hug which hits twice but does no damage during the actual throwing part, her aerial should be rather lacking to make up for her zoning, too.
A lot of her moves, especially dashes, should also be based on chess pieces. We could have a rook-like fast forward dash that leaves her very open to attacks but would be perfect to initiate bouncing and aerial combos, a diagonal one for the bishop and a weird-shoryuken like attack for the knight: basically she'd go forward twice her sprite's size, while also invincible, then she'd come to a halt and perform an upward jump-jab that makes her go halfway high through the screen (during the duration of the second part of the attack she's vulnerable though). Her level 1 special would be Queen's Rules, a mix of her Rook and Bishop move: if activated on the ground it goes somewhere like this: _/\_ thru the screen, if activated from the sky it goes like this: \_/‾. Should hit four times or more but be blockable - also she's invincible during her dashes and only vulnerable when she stops to change directions. Her level 3 though could act just the way you mentioned, as in she'd sort of transform, although I'd prefer if she went into a "fiery-deity" state that lets her deal fireballs all over the place.
Her intro would have her sitting on one of those library's cushions, reading, and getting startled by jumping with a small shriek. Her stances should show her being very afraid of the situation and the blocking maneuvers should have her close her eyes and put an awkward position.
Her winning stances instead could have her puff a sigh of relief while a cushion appears behind her as she eases herself (like in the last panel), and her secondary victory pose could be her grabbing a chocolate bar from her skirt, holding it in front of her and "mercilessly" crushing it, while also putting up a menacing look.
Like I said before, I couldn't come up with anything for Hanako, so I just based her off of this Hisao idea I had. I think your idea is much better.
I'm sorry mate, you lose me here again because the point of both games is to show all of them are independent from one another.
The girls aren't completely independent. Shizune needs Misha to translate, Lilly needs Hanako to read labels for her, and Rin needs Emi to help her get dressed. Plus, this isn't about them being the same, it's emphasizing that they're two completely different people, but they work so well together that they can function as one super person. That's how I see the Shizune/Misha relationship, anyway. I saw your idea for making Misha a grappler, so I thought I'd mention that I was thinking of making Kenji a Rose type grappler that uses his scarf for grabs. He'll probably be DLC, so I didn't want to get into it that much, although his super would either be drunken fist or him talking you to death.

P.S. are there going to be different themes for different stages, or will there just be character themes? (I really hope it's the former, just so I can finally have the Nurse remix I always wanted)

Re: KS: The Fighting Game

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:57 pm
by Meower
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