What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

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metalangel
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by metalangel » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:30 pm

Broomhead wrote:that's taking the majority stand point and assuming it is constant across all specimens. No amount of learning can cover every person with a physical condition, much less a specific sub-set of one of those.
I see. I'll have to come back when I've personally met every single Deaf and HoH person in the world, and gotten an independent team of observers to record all this so it's not 'anecdotal'.
I don't think metal understands that you are talking about both the disabled and the non-disabled in your comments, however, so it may be your best hope to address this.
In a thread about Misha, which turned to wondering if she'd been bullied because she doesn't fit the 'norm' of the school, to then say "oh no, I meant people in general all along, not the bit I quoted when writing the reply!", is a cop out.
SpunkySix wrote:
You can be astonished all you want, and you're right that it's unlikely. So are a lot of the things that happen in the VN. If the question was asking about chances, then you'd be right on. The question didn't ask about chances though, so your personal experience means roughly squat here. The question asked why somebody might get mad at Misha, and I answered it. Remote chance or not, "blowing off steam on her because she's different" is a valid answer in that context.
You ask me to back my answer up, and then tell me my answer means squat? Does that mean that nothing I could have said would have been good enough for you? Meanwhile, your sweeping generalization about human beings remains completely bulletproof? Are you expecting names and places and dates from me, instances when I specifically met people and wasn't met with hostility?
I was mid-conversation when I realized I was over my head in terms of on-topic knowledge, so I let people know that I was done so that they didn't ask me questions that I couldn't answer and so that I didn't leave them hanging if they addressed me. It probably wasn't necessary, but I was thinking ahead and trying to be polite.
It's a forum, not a dining table where you're abruptly pushing your chair back and stalking off.

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Potato
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Potato » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:58 pm

Zarys wrote:I am the only one a little surprised that Misha has no problems with the other students when she is not disabled ?
Hopefully...There's no reason she should have any problems because of that.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Broomhead
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Broomhead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:02 pm

Okay then. Challenge accepted. *Tychus codpiece grab. Carmelldansen starts playing*
I see. I'll have to come back when I've personally met every single Deaf and HoH person in the world, and gotten an independent team of observes to record all this so it's not 'anecdotal'.
Aside from just stating that was impossible, I was saying that your sample was deaf people who go out into the world for such things. Most of my friends make efforts to hide their deficiencies (although I'll openly admit I know very few people with physical disabilities worthy of Yamaku), or ignore them, so you are receiving info from a very specific subset: those who accept it and are willing to go to social meetings on the matter. You'll never meet a open-range alcoholic in AA unless they were forced. (I'm sure your meetings weren't in that tone, but it's a good example.) I respect you Metal, I'm just trying to defuse the situation.
In a thread about Misha, which turned to wondering if she'd been bullied because she doesn't fit the 'norm' of the school, to then say "oh no, I meant people in general all along, not the bit I quoted when writing the reply!", is a cop out.
Which is why I'm saying it not spunky. Anyways, let me trace this conversation back for a second... one moment. Ah yes, okay, here we are. Zarys wondering if Misha was bullied due to being non-disabled. Followed by Spunky using the word "butthurt" in relation to people getting pissed off for non-logical reasons. So you seem to be saying that disabled people are inherently better thinkers thus are above petty snapping? My my, I'm no psychology professor, just student of the eyes, but I can tell you that is in no way true. I mean, look around this forum! We all have issues, physical, emotion, mental, it doesn't matter. We're not better because of that. Sure, we may be nice to each other out of mutual respect, but that is a personal trait caused by our outlook, not a side-effect of the issue. (Otherwise, Steven Hawking wouldn't be able to speak at all for fear of "offending someone out there.") I respect you immensely, and think you are a smart person, but I'm starting to get frustrated. Disabled people are humans, thus human nature applies. This isn't rocket science, it's basic human interaction! Even in Kindergarten kids steal toys and eat things they aren't supposed to. Humans are flawed.
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by brythain » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:04 pm

Potato wrote:
Zarys wrote:I am the only one a little surprised that Misha has no problems with the other students when she is not disabled ?
Hopefully...There's no reason she should have any problems because of that.
Even the disabled are differently disabled. From what we can see canonically, they get along fine as long as they don't reckless endanger others who may have disabilities not taken into account by their behaviour. Hanako isn't significantly physically disabled either. There are hints that Yuuko might've been a former student, and she doesn't have an obvious physical disability either.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
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metalangel
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by metalangel » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:13 pm

Broomhead wrote: Aside from just stating that was impossible, I was saying that your sample was deaf people who go out into the world for such things. Most of my friends make efforts to hide their deficiencies (although I'll openly admit I know very few people with physical disabilities worthy of Yamaku), or ignore them, so you are receiving info from a very specific subset: those who accept it and are willing to go to social meetings on the matter. You'll never meet a open-range alcoholic in AA unless they were forced. (I'm sure your meetings weren't in that tone, but it's a good example.)
I know there's angry and/or militant Deaf folks out there too. They post on the internet.
I'm starting to get frustrated.
Feel free to go mind your own business again at any point.

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Broomhead
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Broomhead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:16 pm

I know there's angry and/or militant Deaf folks out there too. They post on the internet
Then why don't you think there would be rude ones in Yamaku? Heck, Kenji probably gave her needles-eyes at one point or another anyways. I'm sure the staff is better about dealing with student issues in Yamaku, but bullies will bully.
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Potato
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Potato » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:25 pm

brythain wrote:
Potato wrote:
Zarys wrote:I am the only one a little surprised that Misha has no problems with the other students when she is not disabled ?
Hopefully...There's no reason she should have any problems because of that.
Even the disabled are differently disabled. From what we can see canonically, they get along fine as long as they don't reckless endanger others who may have disabilities not taken into account by their behaviour. Hanako isn't significantly physically disabled either. There are hints that Yuuko might've been a former student, and she doesn't have an obvious physical disability either.
Yes, everyone's disability is different...And? Being different wouldn't automatically make them irrational assholes, particularly when considering that the worst of of their disabilities are internal and largely invisible anyway. And by that account, I'd say Misha has a disability of her own, what with the facade and being as unhealthily clingy as she is...

I don't ever recall Yuuko hinting at being a student though. O.o

*imagining the obligatory new-kid-introduced-to-all-the-cliques movie scene as portrayed in a hypothetical divisive shitty version of Yamaku*

"There's the deaf kids...The blind guys...The toasties..."

Oh man. Hanako could totally have a gang. The Toasties.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Broomhead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:29 pm

Potato wrote:The toasties
:lol: Well done. I'm imagining Hisao, Lilly, Depressed Misha, and Hanako in leather jackets walking through the school.
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Potato » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:32 pm

Broomhead wrote:
Potato wrote:The toasties
:lol: Well done. I'm imagining Hisao, Lilly, Depressed Misha, and Hanako in leather jackets walking through the school.
In a world where Disneyland is populated by various gangs (our world), it could totally happen. And it totally should. :lol: I think I'll file that away in the "Future fanfic ideas" folder.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by SpunkySix » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:11 am

You're completely missing the point of what I'm getting at on multiple levels, so I'm going to leave it at this and then drop it because this is clearly going nowhere:

It's entirely possible that an individual or a small group of individuals would act out against or be rude to Misha because she's different since deaf people aren't any better than people who can hear, and nothing you have said or experienced has changed the validity of that statement.
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metalangel
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by metalangel » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:09 am

Possible vs probable.

Because you can't not win.

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Zarys
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by Zarys » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:10 am

metalangel wrote:Possible vs probable.

Because you can't not win.
True Courage is being a stubborn ? :lol:
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by LordMarluxia » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:26 am

Broomhead wrote:
Potato wrote:The toasties
:lol: Well done. I'm imagining Hisao, Lilly, Depressed Misha, and Hanako in leather jackets walking through the school.
Depressed Misha?! Wait I don't want to know!
Why would she be depressed!? She is like a fountain of happiness at Yamaku! I don't want her to be depressed... wait. ...shit.
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by CoffeeDrive » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:31 am

LordMarluxia wrote:
Broomhead wrote:
Potato wrote:The toasties
:lol: Well done. I'm imagining Hisao, Lilly, Depressed Misha, and Hanako in leather jackets walking through the school.
Depressed Misha?! Wait I don't want to know!
Why would she be depressed!? She is like a fountain of happiness at Yamaku! I don't want her to be depressed... wait. ...shit.
It seems someone hasnt played shizunes route yet.
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Re: What if Misha's presence at Yamaku...

Post by SpunkySix » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:53 am

metalangel wrote:Possible vs probable.

Because you can't not win.
And in a hypothetical about a fictional universe where unlikely things can easily occur and often do, (which the question was) probability means jack shit, which is an incredibly basic concept that I've already explained repeatedly, along with at least one other person. Fitting article.
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