Random KS Discussion

[SpunkySix]

Have to agree, I dont want to see bad ends, doesnt mean I'm just a wuss for not wanting to see.

With all due respect, I kind of think you are.

Honestly? It's an H game/novel.

Not wanting to feel bad while playing/reading one particular game/novel does not make you anything. Otherwise, I could go ahead and say that anybody who didn't bother to get 100% of the Shine Sprites in Super Mario Sunshine is a wimp who doesn't work hard, which is absurd. They aren't even being a wimp who doesn't work hard, they just don't feel that it's worth it. We get a lot out of KS, but when it comes right down to it, it's entertainment, and a very minuscule bit of entertainment in the grand scheme of things. Not wanting to feel crappy about something you set out to feel good about reading is a personal choice that means very little.

You also aren't any less of a fan for not reading certain endings. There are dedicated Sonic fans who haven't bothered to S rank everything or collect all of the emblems in the Adventure games. There are Mario fans that love the series but never bother collecting all the star coins, and thus miss out on entire worlds of the game. Why? It doesn't appeal to them. That doesn't make them lesser fans, and nobody gets to tell them how they're supposed to enjoy the series. All it indicates is that they are a fan of the series for a different reason than somebody who goes for 100% completion, and that's totally fine.

Liminaut had a good point in his post, and so did Odball in the post after that. This nonsense about being a pussy, (wording that has actually been used here) because you don't want to see every ending in an indie visual novel and the implied "true fan" comments that go along with it are ridiculous though.

[Guest Poster]

If you get the good ending, why bother going back to see the bad ending if you have no interest in it??

Because it's part of the game and an opportunity to get to know the characters better, albeit a less fuzzy side of the characters. The "no interest" sounds way too neutral to be an appropriate description of being unable to deal with scenes that involve breakups. Again, this is not "fucked up shit". This is not characters dying. It's a highschool breakup. Sad, but life moves on afterwards. The characters in the game don't just go through fuzzy times.

Does that mean people who don't complete video games 100% aren't true fans?? I certainly don't think so.

Usually, completing a video game 100% means sticking several dozens of hours into seeking out obscure hidden items or grinding to defeat that one superenemy. I can see why someone wouldn't bother with that. It's about not wanting to spend lots of time in a tedious manner. In a game such as KS, getting to the missing scenes is usually a matter of minutes. They're all but delivered on a silver platter. It's not about not having the time or the skill. It's about not having faith in one's ability to deal with anything other than the warm fuzzy endings.

100%-ing a game like Skyrim and 100%-ing a game like KS are two completely different things. The first takes months of extra effort and skill. The latter is a matter of fast-forwarding to the choice-points, accepting that sometimes bad things happen in life and it's not the end of the world and then being able to say afterwards that you've experienced everything the game has to offer, including the less fuzzy parts.

[SpunkySix]

being unable to deal with scenes that involve breakups.

And if you can deal with it but don't really feel like it?

Y'know what, I'm going to watch Emi's bad ending right now.

[KeiichiO]

Usually, completing a video game 100% means sticking several dozens of hours into seeking out obscure hidden items or grinding to defeat that one superenemy. I can see why someone wouldn't bother with that. It's about not wanting to spend lots of time in a tedious manner. In a game such as KS, getting to the missing scenes is usually a matter of minutes. They're all but delivered on a silver platter. It's not about not having the time or the skill. It's about not having faith in one's ability to deal with anything other than the warm fuzzy endings.

100%-ing a game like Skyrim and 100%-ing a game like KS are two completely different things.

I agree, however, people still have the choice to avoid certain scenes, and avoid completing the whole game. After all, doing so only gifts you with a mediocre drawing. Calling people 'wimps' and 'not true fans' just because they don't feel like doing the bad endings for any reason is just immature.

being unable to deal with scenes that involve breakups.

And if you can deal with it but don't really feel like it?

Y'know what, I'm going to watch Emi's bad ending right now.

I've seen all the endings already. I'm just defending other's choices to play the game however the the flying fuck they want.

[SpunkySix]

Okay, so on a lighter note, it turns out skip mode is kind of hilarious. Feels speed ahead!

[brythain]

Okay, so on a lighter note, it turns out skip mode is kind of hilarious. Feels speed ahead!

It feels like a tale told by Misha.

[Guest Poster]

I agree, however, people still have the choice to avoid certain scenes, and avoid completing the whole game. After all, doing so only gifts you with a mediocre drawing.

The mediocre drawing isn't the reward. The reward is the ability to say you've experienced all the scenes and all the world and character building the game has to offer. Again, "not feeling like it" is too neutral. If the devs announced that there was an optional hidden scene or two involving (insert your favourite character here) and Hisao involved in some completely mundane activity that had no plot relevance whatsoever, even the people who "are not interested" in the bad ends would probably rush to find said scenes because of curiousity and the ability to experience that extra bit of world/character building.

[SpunkySix]

Holy shit, Hisao really is a complete asshole when you make the wrong choice. I expected something bad, but wow, I'm actually surprised. There's pressing somebody because they need help and won't accept it, and then there's... whatever hissy fit he just threw. I don't think I could have chosen worse words to say what he just said if I tried. It's not even what he said, it's how incredibly disrespectfully he said it.

Moving on...

[KeiichiO]

Holy shit, Hisao really is a complete asshole when you make the wrong choice. I expected something bad, but wow, I'm actually surprised. There's pressing somebody because they need help and won't accept it, and then there's... whatever hissy fit he just threw. I don't think I could have chosen worse words to say what he just said if I tried. It's not even what he said, it's how incredibly disrespectfully he said it.

Moving on...

I don't even remember Emi's bad ending. I may have to find it on YouTube to understand what you're even talking about. (Stupid lack of a mobile version of KS...)

@GP - Yes, and to some people, that's not really a worthwhile reward. I know quite a few people that like to blow through games as quickly as they can and completely disregard the artistic values of said game in the process. I personally think that's the wrong way to go, but I'm not going to judge them for playing how they want to play.

[SpunkySix]

Well... crap. That sucked. You know that pit you get in your stomach when something feels awful and you can't do anything about it? That's how the bad ending was there, full stop, the entire time. They never talked again. That's haunting, as a closing line, especially compared to the sweetness of the good ending. It's just so open in such a nasty way. No closure.

Hisao not waking up for the alarm killed me, too. Last year for the first time I started doing that sometimes, and I've been doing it again as of late. It's hard to find the energy to care about waking up, and I hate seeing parts of myself in Hisao when he gets all depressed and goes on a loner spree.

The make up on the track was really nice though, so there's that. Misha was super cool about the whole thing, and seeing Hisao's running physically have a pay-off in the story was great.


Worst part of the novel, finished. It's smooth sailing from here.

[Guest Poster]

I'd say that Emi's bad ending definitely contained closure, but in the nastiest coldest way possible. Hisao stopped being cordial with Emi and Emi already cut Hisao loose and was almost clinically detached from him. Yes, it was kind of nasty, but on the whole it makes you appreciate the bullet you dodged in the good end. More importantly, it makes you realize what Emi and her previous boyfriend probably went through, which in turn adds to Emi's character, though it's hardly flattering.

[SpunkySix]

I'd say that Emi's bad ending definitely contained closure, but in the nastiest coldest way possible. Hisao stopped being cordial with Emi and Emi already cut Hisao loose and was almost clinically detached from him. Yes, it was kind of nasty, but on the whole it makes you appreciate the bullet you dodged in the good end. More importantly, it makes you realize what Emi and her previous boyfriend probably went through, which in turn adds to Emi's character, though it's hardly flattering.

It had closure in the sense that their relationship was just flat done, but none of the aftermath was actually shown, which was what got me. I already kind of figured that's what Emi did to the guy before*, so not seeing quite how having that happen twice affected her later on, or if Hisao recovered from his depression healthily sort of had that "nothing is scarier" effect. It just cuts off after, "we never spoke again". Black screen, done.

*That's another striking thing... this ending, to me, doesn't add to Emi's character, which is the most telling part of it. She does exactly what she has done the entire story, just with more finality this time. She doesn't change. She doesn't get better. She just keeps doing it, and that's that. Her biggest problem is her stubbornness and refusal to allow herself to open up, so it makes sense that in not doing so, she remains pretty much exactly where she is and that we don't see more of her. I honestly saw it coming from a mile away and it seems like Hisao did too, but actually "being there" feels so much worse than just knowing the potential for it to happen, which ties into the balance aspect of the route. He has to push for change without going there and getting closed off for good, and he knows this, which is why the choices he has to make hold such hefty weight. That's how I saw it, anyway.


As an aside, this is sort of what pushing through the bad ending felt like, for those who don't know yet:

[Potato]

I played through all routes and got the endings that were good...

Except the bad ends are also good. So you need them.

@Spunky: Hisao's a jerk in that ending...But Emi's a vile cunt in that ending so it balances out. (Fun fact: That was my first ending. I even failed the second chance Misha offers XD)


I find it mildly amusing how Oddball's post about people not doing the bad ends being wusses is fine but mine is ridiculous just for using a different-yet-synonymous word.

[KeiichiO]

I find it mildly amusing how Oddball's post about people not doing the bad ends being wusses is fine but mine is ridiculous just for using a different-yet-synonymous word.

Nah. I think both are stupid.

[Potato]

I find it mildly amusing how Oddball's post about people not doing the bad ends being wusses is fine but mine is ridiculous just for using a different-yet-synonymous word.

Nah. I think both are stupid.

Good for you.

I think Kenji needed a good end. A real manly picnic.