Random KS Discussion

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Broomhead
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Broomhead » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:25 pm

d2r wrote: It seemed to me like you were hinting at using some kind of mystic foreknowledge of a person (as would be available to you if you were hypothetically inserted into the world of a story) to know what psychological levers to pull to make them (or attempt to make them) fall in love with you: "a couple of key things to make them fall over the edge", as you put it. However, using your foreknowledge in that way would be morally dubious. For example, look at the scene in Groundhog Day where Phil uses trial-and-error (via the time loop) to figure out the exact right things to say to make a woman in the town sleep with him. We're meant to think he's an asshole for doing it. It's akin to how if I were to, say, surreptitiously read someone's email to figure out something they wanted and then bought it for them, I would be condemned - rightly - as a creep. It was that sort of behavior I interpreted your comment as entailing, and that sort of behavior which is fundamentally manipulative.
Sorry, I might've come off as a bit defensive. I'll agree that it would be manipulative, (and I am very much so) but it's less emotionally stressful and more likely to succeed if the information came to you in an honest way. Knowing not to ask about her scars, or putting too much emotional duress on her, etc. would be things you would learn not to do from the VN or just asking her friends. (Playing a VN isn't really that honest, but I also guessed many things about Hanako before she said them just via psychology, so it's moot.) I'm also terribly old fashioned in that I think dating etc. is to find your ideal partner, which is often expressed via marriage, not sex, so I can see both sides of being a sleazy asshole argument on me. As for the email thing, I think that's clear over-stepping of bounds on my part. That said, if someone else were to come by the information in that way, and they told me what I wanted to know when I asked them (I in no way support the act), I would use the information.
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Potato
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Potato » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:53 pm

LordMarluxia wrote: Am I the only male on this God forsaken planet that does not crave a threesome in any way?
Making love is intimate, something that should be shared between two people who love each other.
Ignoring for the moment that a threesome and making love are two separate and different concepts (you can have a threesome - that is, sex between three people - without love at all if you so choose), why exactly can't three people love each other anyway?

And self-insert fanfics magically rendering said insert irresistable makes perfect sense, guys. Protagonists have that power. :lol:
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d2r
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by d2r » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:02 pm

Atario wrote:Shortest fanfic ever. "I approached the school that Tuesday morning feeling confident. After speaking to a few people and trying to be sociable, however, I started noticing strange looks and whispers. Pretty soon, some cops showed up and hauled me away. I never saw any of the students again. ☙fin❧"
10/10 :lol:
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Forever_ambivalent
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:21 pm

There is no need for schools like yamaku. Well for the UK at least (the UK doesn't have the best education system anyway).
A lot of schools are entirely prepared to deal with physically disabled people. I remember seeing a girl who had been almost entirely disabled and couldn't lift her head up. She could only move her mouth, eyes and hands as far as I could see. Yet dispite her major physical setbacks she was treated like any other person.
One of the most popular and successful students was a blind girl in my school who I was friends with. She was incredible. Nobody treated her any different to the other girls (OK they treated her better because she was an academic genius and sometimes she needed some help) .

In all honesty there is no need to make a school entirely for physically disabled people. There is a need for schools centred around mentally disabled people though . for relatively obvious reasons.

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Broomhead
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Broomhead » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:30 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote:There is no need for schools like yamaku. Well for the UK at least (the UK doesn't have the best education system anyway).
I completely agree with you. (In America) The separation only serves to make them "different" and "other" when really they're just human beings with a few more or less parts. It's like saying a computer isn't a computer because it doesn't have two hard-drives or ram sticks.

That said, I can see why it may be necessary in some districts. In my first middle school, I saved someone's life directly outside the office and dragged the would-be murderers into the office, and nothing was done to them. This act was done purely because a minority kid had pissed off the wrong people at the wrong time. I can only imagine what the hate would be like against someone who couldn't stand or see. (Emi is included in this because people have also stolen crutches by force there.) In my second middle school, however, it would be a nice addition to the already open school culture. Heck, I think the school's worse off without it. I know very few Yamato-level disabled people, about 1-3 depending on how you count, and that's all by familial association, so it'd be nice to meet more. (I collect people, what can I say? [Sweet Baby Satan I'm turning into Rin. {Help me!}])
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metalangel
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by metalangel » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:41 pm

I'd disagree - each person with disabilities is unique and some may require more support than others. Not just educational but physical, mental and medical. There are schools in my area that are specifically equipped to deal with special needs like this, especially at the crucial younger age when education is so important to prepare for the life ahead.

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Zykes
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Zykes » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:42 pm

With "Self-inserted" OC Fan fiction, what exactly would be good for it. That it's just written well? (but filled with how easy the attraction between the OC and girl are.) or something a bit more original that doesn't fit the common belief. (OC doesn't get the girl, or maybe not much on love interests at all).

And how would you tell an OC that is pretty much a "self-insert" compared to just a randomly created OC?
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bhtooefr
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:51 pm

Usually the giveaways are that it's a wish fulfillment self-insert, and things like non-Japanese names (especially if it's a male OC whose name matches the username of the poster).
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Zykes » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:55 pm

bhtooefr wrote:Usually the giveaways are that it's a wish fulfillment self-insert, and things like non-Japanese names (especially if it's a male OC whose name matches the username of the poster).
That makes sense, though I haven't noticed a lot of OC based Fanfics in a while, at least within the Fan Fiction section.
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Forever_ambivalent
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:55 pm

metalangel wrote:I'd disagree - each person with disabilities is unique and some may require more support than others. Not just educational but physical, mental and medical. There are schools in my area that are specifically equipped to deal with special needs like this, especially at the crucial younger age when education is so important to prepare for the life ahead.
It almost sounds like you are saying people without disabilities aren't unique.
Also why should we split people up for no reason. I know about 6 people who would go to Yamaku in KS who are perfectly (or were perfectly) happy in school dispite their disability. They all lived normal lives.

Also stuff like that would naturally lead to discrimination. It also demands space which some countries do not have much of and it will eat a large amount of money that comes from taxes.
Its pointless and silly and will create discrimination. Why do you think it is remotely close to a good idea?

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Broomhead
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Broomhead » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:18 pm

The point I think Metal is trying to make is that certain disabilities require constant medical attention. Arrythmia for example, could strike at any time, and a nearby hospital is a plus.

Metal: The conversation wasn't about mentally people, just physically disabled. (Medically disabled kinda fits into those two categories.)
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Potato
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Potato » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:26 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote:
metalangel wrote:I'd disagree - each person with disabilities is unique and some may require more support than others. Not just educational but physical, mental and medical. There are schools in my area that are specifically equipped to deal with special needs like this, especially at the crucial younger age when education is so important to prepare for the life ahead.
It almost sounds like you are saying people without disabilities aren't unique.
It does not even remotely sound like that. This isn't bloody Tumblr. He doesn't have to tack on "BUT ALSO PEOPLE WITHOUT DISABILITIES ARE UNIQUE TOO!", Christ...

The discrimination already exists. This doesn't create discrimination. If anything, it creates a place with less of it so they can focus on better things.

And the point is to provide a focused environment equipped to handle the relevant conditions as well as provide an environment in which people with such conditions can better thrive, so how exactly is it pointless?
Last edited by Potato on Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by brythain » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:27 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote:Also stuff like that would naturally lead to discrimination. It also demands space which some countries do not have much of and it will eat a large amount of money that comes from taxes.
Its pointless and silly and will create discrimination. Why do you think it is remotely close to a good idea?
Because it allows us to concentrate trained personnel, special equipment, and specialized services. We don't have enough of these things to spread them around. That's just the short version. In fact, it will eat LESS tax money.
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metalangel
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by metalangel » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:31 pm

I did say physical, mental and medical - depending on the individual they might have something from more than one category. In some cases, the disability might be severe.

By 'younger age' I mean grade school. Some might be able to be mainstreamed after that, others might require special needs education for the remainder of their time at school.

I find the comment about giving people who might need a bit of extra support to realize their potential being pointless, silly and a waste of money pretty unpleasant, to tell you the truth. If you pardon the slightly ableist wording, "The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members".

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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Potato wrote:
The discrimination already exists. This doesn't create discrimination. It creates a place to go to get away from it.

And the point is to provide an environment equipped to handle the relevant conditions as well as provide an environment in which people with such conditions can better thrive, so how exactly is it pointless?
Just because it exists doesn't mean it should be made worse. Rather than giving up on trying to fix discrimination problems you should try to stop the discrimination. And no it doesn't create a place to get away from it. When white people were separated from black people it certainly did not help black people get away from discrimination ( rather the opposite). Creating a school for physically disabled people would be doing the same thing.
The best way to get people to stop discriminating against them is by getting them to realize that physically disabled people are no different to them. They just have a few problems. Seperating them would show that they are entirely separate people and is clearly not the way to go.

Also I don't see how this Is making a better environment for them. Rather it is secluding them from people without disabilities for no good reason. Any decent school can have all the equipment necessary and help physically disabled people live their life as ordinary citizens. For cases like arrhythmia there are pacemakers and ICD's alongside medicine and careful care from teachers to make sure nothing bad happens. They are as safe as they can be.

Also what if it is an specially good school? This is already a big problem with religious and gender based schools. Its quite unfair to people who aren't in that group. And its very common in the UK (some of the best schools are religion/gender specific).

I haven't met a single physically disabled person who wants to be secluded in such a way. It all seems too similar to the apartheid system and that is not good.

Also metalangel if you read my comment you would see that I am fine with having a school for mentally disabled people and helping people with disabilities. You decided to bring in that stuff for no reason other than trying to change my point. Also stop putting words in my mouth.

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