Random KS Discussion

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
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Sohtak
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Sohtak » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:20 pm

You guys finally found that!

I found it a week or two back but I wasn't sure wether to post it or not...didn't want to get in trouble.

It looks exciting so far and I do hope they have the willpower and people to get through with it...presuming it will be the same way KS was and it's free and not sold for money.

We all want a sequel, Or even ANYTHING KS related to come out, And IMO this is the best chance we have at that.

Speaking of things though...I found these two interview with 2 of the pathwriters

EMI pathwriter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AhOrrK4Oak

Hanako pathwriter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieTcl5lSqm4

Hanako follow up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwksKgK0Bt4

These are the only two I can find, I guess the other pathwriters didn't want to talk?

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CoffeeDrive
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by CoffeeDrive » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:26 pm

Zarys wrote:
CoffeeDrive wrote:
Theres already 100(0)s of Feelsy VNs like KS, theres even other VNs which focus on schools for disabled students.
Really ? says the 100(0)s VN as feelsy as KS !
Go on VNDB, add tags "Nakige" and "Utsuge"
Have fun kid.
Sohtak wrote: We all want a sequel, Or even ANYTHING KS related to come out, And IMO this is the best chance we have at that.
Actually. I dont. I like KS the way it is, I dont want another one, the devs left it in a good state, and i prefer it stays that way.
Last edited by CoffeeDrive on Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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HayStack44
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by HayStack44 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:34 pm

Sohtak wrote: We all want a sequel,
No. We don't 'all' want one.

And in particular I want this project to disappear or at the very very least divorce itself from links to KS entirely, simply on the basis that they've got about in such a presumptuous and downright cheeky way.

The FAQ makes it very clear what the devs position is on this.

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Zarys
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Zarys » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:37 pm

HayStack44 wrote:
Sohtak wrote: We all want a sequel,
No. We don't 'all' want one.

And in particular I want this project to disappear or at the very very least divorce itself from links to KS entirely, simply on the basis that they've got about in such a presumptuous and downright cheeky way.

The FAQ makes it very clear what the devs position is on this.
Nobody here approve this project, just that it is reminiscent of the fact that there will be no KS2 so many say "It's sad" :P
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HayStack44
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by HayStack44 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:20 pm

There's a blog post related to the sudden attention in their project. I won't link it here.

Their attitude is quite astonishing. They seem to be under the impression they have the right to do this on the basis that...well, they really really want to make it.

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Suriko
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Re: Ask!

Post by Suriko » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:08 pm

HayStack44 wrote:Discussion about that is going on here:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9728&start=855

As it goes it's nothing to do with 4LS. It's some....people....who think that can take the name, logo and so forth without even asking and then openly state that they hope 4LS don't find out and if they do that they'll not have any issues. They have also complete misunderstood the licence and think that derivative works such as a sequel are OK as long as you don't sell them. Where in fact the part of the licence they are quoting says you can't sell ANYTHING and that you can't make ANY derivative works if they are going to be distributed There is a disclaimer saying its a non-4LS project but it's in the first post on that blog and not exactly in plain sight.

I think events will run a very predictable course in a very short amount of time.
This is pretty much correct.

Suffice to say, their understanding of copyright seems to be about level with their understanding of the concept "ask before you do something related to other's work". It's disappointing to see someone scrape together the resources required to make a visual novel, only to use that collected talent and effort to make an unoriginal story that treads the same ground that KS did. As we've said over and over again, if you have the ability to tell a story, use that talent to tell an original story of your own making, rather than driving a completed story into the ground. To leave no wriggle room in this, 'original' refers to setting as well as characters and themes. Whether or not they use the same characters makes absolutely no difference. Additionally, to throw themselves at this with the vague excuse of not being able to get in contact with developers is also rather questionable, as you can see by this thread itself (and we did attempt to get in contact with them, but got no reply).

As far as copyright goes, to gun ahead with such a project with such a fanciful and obviously unresearched idea of what it entails is not a sound decision (to be extremely diplomatic). We allow derivative works at our discretion, allowing for fan stuff like buttons, doujin, and whatever else, though we appreciate being asked first. To be clear, this is against the terms of the license which very clearly states that no derivatives are allowed, but we choose to waive that for the aforementioned kinds of works as they're no harm at all (and it's cool to see people like our stuff enough to do it). Visual novels are a different thing altogether, for reasons stated previously.

Seriously, here's the license. It's some pretty simple shit. That this project managed to completely misinterpret it shows they either willfilly ignored the license or are extraordinary ignorant.

I hate to use a disgruntled tone, as anyone in the dev team would agree. However, this is, to be frank, is a very disappointing development.

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Broomhead
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Broomhead » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:26 pm

I agree that making a spiritual successor, and perhaps even directly saying it was built as such may be acceptable depending on the grace they put into it. That said, the way the guy talks about it on his blog makes it sound like he really wants to call it KS2 because he wants to make the the KS in all aspects. That said, I kinda think that it's rude to go against the original dev's wishes on a matter like this. I'll admit that having something as good and touching as KS would be something I dream about when I finish it all up, I doubt that this guy will be able to pull it off. No joke is as funny when told the second or third time unless it's an internet reference. And even those get old after a while. (I used to be a gamer like you...) I think now it's time for them to either step up to 4LS (which would be laughable in their current position) or disperse and apologize to surprise us with regrowth two years later (which'd be hard for their hype setup, as it would mean less initial views etc.). In other words: They're doomed unless 4LS basically pulls them into the company or something equally unlikely. That said, if there is ever a 4LS vs. WMB smack down, I'll be a loyalist. One can hope that they'll be perfect and make a perfect game for everyone including 4LS, but statistically it's not likely.
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Potato
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Potato » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Munchenhausen wrote:My theory is that there is a difference between physical attraction and emotional attachment.
This isn't your theory. It's a known fact. :P

@Zarys: Your wording was too perfect. :lol:

@Sohtak: Disregarding that you don't speak for all, this imitation is not a sequel or anything KS-related. So...Yeah.
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delta
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Re: Ask!

Post by delta » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:39 pm

Hey guys we are making a new project, tentatively called "Half-Life 3" and it's a sequel to Half-Life 2. If Valve has any problem with that, we'll definitely change the name, but as long as that hasn't happened please talk about this on all related sites so I can get a team together kthxbai
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HayStack44
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Re: Ask!

Post by HayStack44 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:44 pm

Well these people don't seem to see it that way. Recent posts on their blog seem to think that 1) this is a matter that can actually be discussed and compromises made and 2) that they are somehow the victims here.

All the while backpedalling. First it was "Katawa Shoujo 2", then it was "KS2", then it was "the name is just a placeholder".

I mean look at the way they talk:
"We are willing to change the name (which we have always planned for)."
I bet you and the others are *so* grateful that they would be ever so considerate. :roll:

I was worried that I was over-estimated how seriously you chaps would talk this, seems I under-estimated :lol:

Also maybe these knuckleheads would like to consider that KS and 4LS have 4chan in their corner (whether you guys like it or not I suspect :lol:). They are working out of tumblr. The way I see it, that's like standing on a rickety wooden bridge taunting someone with a bazooka.

At first I thought these folks were just naive and a little self-entitled. Turns out they are straight-up dicks.

Besides there is only one KS2. And that's Rise of Kenji.

Have at them.

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Broomhead
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Broomhead » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:00 pm

Potato: I just made an entire post about things they've said on the blog and pictures they've posted. It was a really great post in my eyes, because it was mostly quotes from them and context given by me. Then I checked the forum rules. I don't think we are allowed to talk about this because
Forum Rules wrote:Anything and everything that breaks the licence, mostly using ripped game assets for fan creations or discussing hacking KS.
counts as bad posting. I do not know the punishment or enforcement of this policy, but I'm going to mention it. If a chef descends from the pm box and tells me it's alright, or even if they come from this thread, i will go ahead and post it. Just... check their blog if you really must. They only recently changed the name from KS2 because Hivemind yelled at them over twitter, even though they had (On the same day actually) previously announced they would NOT be making a sequel to KS. I'm going to pip out before I'm tempted to re-write the original post.
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Oddball
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Oddball » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:11 pm

Well, something is happening there. If you go to the blog, the logo is glitched up with the "Katawa shoujo" part replaced with "Please stand by technical difficulties."
Not Dead Yet

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AxlRosie
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Re: Ask!

Post by AxlRosie » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:28 pm

Hello everyone, I'm one of the artists invited to take part on Music Box's visual novel. There has been a lot going on in the team recently and although I haven't been on charge of the public relations, I would like to give an update on the situation.

As it has been suggested a few times here and in other posts out there, it seems to have been a miscommunication and misunderstanding of a few points. When I joined the Music Box team, the ball was already rolling so I didn't catch many of the early legal details, but what drove me to accept the offer was the assurance that everything would be done as respectfully and legally as possible.

To reassure this respect and good faith, I'm happy to inform we have talked to a 4LS member and we are working right now to change any necessary details and agree to everything that was requested of us to keep the project going.

We are not playing victims, we are not avoiding contact, it was never our intention to be dicks or ignorant or insulting. It's our intention to respect 4LS's wishes and rights and do our bests to fix this miscommunication. :)

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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by SpunkySix » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:32 pm

Oddball wrote:Well, something is happening there. If you go to the blog, the logo is glitched up with the "Katawa shoujo" part replaced with "Please stand by technical difficulties."
Huh. Interesting...

Oh, and that Hivemind interview was great. Very informative, and hearing a dev's voice articulating it all was pretty cool.
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:43 pm

AxlRosie wrote:Hello everyone, I'm one of the artists invited to take part on Music Box's visual novel. There has been a lot going on in the team recently and although I haven't been on charge of the public relations, I would like to give an update on the situation.

As it has been suggested a few times here and in other posts out there, it seems to have been a miscommunication and misunderstanding of a few points. When I joined the Music Box team, the ball was already rolling so I didn't catch many of the early legal details, but what drove me to accept the offer was the assurance that everything would be done as respectfully and legally as possible.

To reassure this respect and good faith, I'm happy to inform we have talked to a 4LS member and we are working right now to change any necessary details and agree to everything that was requested of us to keep the project going.

We are not playing victims, we are not avoiding contact, it was never our intention to be dicks or ignorant or insulting. It's our intention to respect 4LS's wishes and rights and do our bests to fix this miscommunication. :)
If by "miscommunication" you mean "complete lack of communication" and by "respectfully and legally as possible" you mean "without asking and completely against the terms of our license and basic copyright law," then I guess your post is pretty accurate. I am not gonna blame you, because you only know what the man in charge told you, presumably, but I might think twice about working for someone who has proven to be completely ignorant at best and downright duplicitous at worst.

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