Random KS Discussion

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poopooface
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by poopooface » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:39 pm

Silentcook wrote:
Potato wrote:My point being, it's all the writer's fault. Buncha jerks. :x
Our work here is done. >:3
I laughed so hard at this.
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poopooface
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by poopooface » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:41 pm

Potato wrote:
Silentcook wrote:
Potato wrote:My point being, it's all the writer's fault. Buncha jerks. :x
Our work here is done. >:3
Image

bhtooefr wrote:trying to say that Hisao is blameless in Misstep is rather disingenuous... Especially when you mention it being his fault earlier in the same post.
Gee, it sure is a good thing I never said he was blameless in that then, isn't it? :P

@poo: So...You saw a video of her good end and this somehow granted you a vision of her bad end? This is getting into some weird territory... :lol:
I meant bad end.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by bhtooefr » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:44 pm

Potato wrote:Gee, it sure is a good thing I never said he was blameless in that then, isn't it? :P
Well, saying that Hanako is entirely at fault does pretty much absolve Hisao of blame, so...
Guest Poster wrote:I'm sorry, but that's just an excuse. Losing on purpose isn't really losing. Some games, especially in the 80's and 90's had truckloads of amusing deaths and any serious player would usually spend some time trying to find out what happened if you tried to screw that hooker without protection (your balls would start glowing and then explode), tried to drink from a pool of acid (the game creators would make an appearance, activate the "how-you-blew-it-cam" and yes, that's what it was called and show you what an idiot you were) or tried to throw a dagger at an enchanted tree. (the dagger bounced off and into the fourth wall where it broke your computer screen and caused death by monitor failure) Like I said, they're additional experiences you never see when you never stray from the main path.
And, who hasn't fired up a racing game, turned around, and driven backwards just to watch the carnage of the entire pack of cars crashing into you, going the wrong way? (Hell, that's the most fun part about a NASCAR game, because going the RIGHT way is kinda boring, to be honest.)
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Potato » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:00 pm

bhtooefr wrote:
Potato wrote:Gee, it sure is a good thing I never said he was blameless in that then, isn't it? :P
Well, saying that Hanako is entirely at fault does pretty much absolve Hisao of blame, so...

And, who hasn't fired up a racing game, turned around, and driven backwards just to watch the carnage of the entire pack of cars crashing into you, going the wrong way? (Hell, that's the most fun part about a NASCAR game, because going the RIGHT way is kinda boring, to be honest.)
Oh, is Misstep Hanako's scene? Well, yeah, that's pretty much her fault then. Being depressive and reclusive in a blatantly worrying way? Check. Insisting that you're okay despite people saying they're okay while depressed usually lying (and, in the case of reclusion, occasionally offing themselves afterward), thereby multiplying the worrying nature of the situation? Check. Allowing baseless paranoia and insecurity to override reason and in doing so angrily burning all bridges with your close friends? Check.

Hisao's biggest fault there is...Gee, worrying about a friend who is behaving in a very worrisome manner. Shit. Guy's like a million Hitlers right there.

I've never done that...Though I did fire up Big Rigs Racing and drive backwards just to watch the unending madness of reality crumbling apart at the seams. :mrgreen:
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Guest Poster » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:10 pm

To be honest, Hisao was downright patronizing in Misstep and he pretty much said the worst things possible. That was where his part of the blame lied. Hanako's part, you've already mentioned. Both were at fault.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by SpunkySix » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:17 pm

The thing is, what's wrong with not wanting to see that, even if that is the reason?

The devs put time and effort into it, and it's part of the game. I appreciate that. That doesn't mean anybody is obligated to look at it, or that it's weak to not want to see a character you care about in such a crappy place. By making the right choices, you've ultimately avoided that, so going back just might not feel right. It's not like that makes you a weak person in general. I'm hyper-cynical at times and I get just how crappy the world is more than most middle class people I know. I deal with it in ways that I'm proud of, often by confronting it head-on despite the difficulties in doing so and their consequences. I don't really want another reminder that everything sucks, especially not with the one story that I managed to really connect with. I don't think making that choice should be considered wrong, wimpy or anything, it's just different ways of wanting to enjoy a game.

Maybe I'm in the minority with that, I don't know. Also, I acknowledge that the context here is a little different, and that actually playing out the bad ends is fairly important in being able to talk about their details, so there is that.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by ogorhan » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:13 pm

SpunkySix wrote:The thing is, what's wrong with not wanting to see that, even if that is the reason?

The devs put time and effort into it, and it's part of the game. I appreciate that. That doesn't mean anybody is obligated to look at it, or that it's weak to not want to see a character you care about in such a crappy place. By making the right choices, you've ultimately avoided that, so going back just might not feel right. It's not like that makes you a weak person in general. I'm hyper-cynical at times and I get just how crappy the world is more than most middle class people I know. I deal with it in ways that I'm proud of, often by confronting it head-on despite the difficulties in doing so and their consequences. I don't really want another reminder that everything sucks, especially not with the one story that I managed to really connect with. I don't think making that choice should be considered wrong, wimpy or anything, it's just different ways of wanting to enjoy a game.

Maybe I'm in the minority with that, I don't know. Also, I acknowledge that the context here is a little different, and that actually playing out the bad ends is fairly important in being able to talk about their details, so there is that.
Have to agree, I dont want to see bad ends, doesnt mean I'm just a wuss for not wanting to see. I played through all routes and got the endings that were good and im fine with that. Dont really have a reason to go back and purposefully choose the wrong options just to see how it turns out. I got my enjoyment out of it and sometimes I even replay a route just for nostalgia sake.

I'm not claiming I finished everything about KS and dont really care if someone says "you didnt fully finish KS". Who cares cuz I certainly dont.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by CoffeeDrive » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:37 pm

poopooface wrote:
Silentcook wrote:
Potato wrote:My point being, it's all the writer's fault. Buncha jerks. :x
Our work here is done. >:3
I laughed so hard at this.
Image

Ill drink to that.
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Liminaut
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Liminaut » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:22 pm

About not doing the bad ends:

Remember, KS is a story told in a non-linear manner. The bad and neutral ends are just as much a part of that story as the good ends. If the devs had a written novel to work with they could tell the whole thing in a linear manner showing all of the aspects of the characters. But that's not what they have to work with -- they need to very carefully tell the story in the most economical manner possible, which measn putting critical parts of the story in the bad and neutral ends.

All of the characters become much richer and more complete once you know the bad ends. It's in the bad ends that you find out what's really been driving them. The aspects of personality that drive the bad ends will still be present after the good ends are over, so Hisao is going to have to deal with Hanazilla and Stonewall Emi sooner or later anyway.

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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Oddball » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:30 pm

There are also some people that think the character might be better off in the long run in some of the bad endings.

Maybe they are and maybe they aren't but you'd need to play through them in order to see for yourself.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:00 am

Have to agree, I dont want to see bad ends, doesnt mean I'm just a wuss for not wanting to see.
With all due respect, I kind of think you are. The bad ends are being played up here as some hugely traumatizing experience that'll certainly leave you depressed for weeks on end if you were to play through them. It just ain't so. If your answer to the "what's the worst that COULD happen?" is anything more than "I'll feel sad for a couple of minutes" then your imagination is making it a bigger deal than it is. (especially since you can replay the good ending scene as a sadness-cure right afterwards) Do they end the story on a sad note? Yeah. But they also make you appreciate the good ends more as you realize what COULD have happened.
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by KeiichiO » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:15 am

Guest Poster wrote:
Have to agree, I dont want to see bad ends, doesnt mean I'm just a wuss for not wanting to see.
With all due respect, I kind of think you are. The bad ends are being played up here as some hugely traumatizing experience that'll certainly leave you depressed for weeks on end if you were to play through them. It just ain't so. Your imagination is making it a bigger deal than it is. Do they end the story on a sad note? Yeah. But they also make you appreciate the good ends more as you realize what COULD have happened.
Dude, if someone doesn't want to see a certain scene, they don't want to see it. It doesn't make them a wuss, or any less of a fan. Some people have some pretty strong attachments to these characters, and they don't want to see them hurt, whether they're fictional or not. I'm a HUGE fan of Game of Thrones, and I look away when *NAME WITHHELD* dies in season 1, had nightmares due to the Red Wedding in season 3, and ran out of the freakin' room near in shock-induced tears when *NAME WITHHELD* died in season 4. It's practically the same experience, (though, obviously more warranted with a show like Game of Thrones).

When you get a good ending the first time around, what's the real point of going back and purposely fucking up just to see your favorite girl hurt? Unless you're aiming for completion, it's not really necessary.

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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:24 am

Except nobody's dying here. (well, except for in the Kenji ending, but that scene was so over-the-top it kind of overshadowed the dramatic effects) It's the end of a high school relationship. No less, no more. Sad, but not exactly something the characters will never ever recover from, though some might take longer than others to bounce back. Comparing it to something as permanent as death is...not warranted.
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Oddball
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by Oddball » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:51 am

Dude, if someone doesn't want to see a certain scene, they don't want to see it. It doesn't make them a wuss, or any less of a fan.
That's pretty much exactly what it means.

You're not a fan enough to want to play the whole game or you're too much of a wuss to subject yourself to something that will make you feel sad.
When you get a good ending the first time around, what's the real point of going back and purposely fucking up just to see your favorite girl hurt? Unless you're aiming for completion, it's not really necessary.
The purpose is enjoying the work that the creators put into the game, finding out how the entire story plays out, and enjoying the entire experience for what it is, not just for the warm fuzzy parts.
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KeiichiO
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Re: Random KS Discussion

Post by KeiichiO » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:59 am

Oddball wrote:The purpose is enjoying the work that the creators put into the game, finding out how the entire story plays out, and enjoying the entire experience for what it is, not just for the warm fuzzy parts.
With shows like Game of Thrones, you're going to see some fucked up shit, and there's no way to avoid it. With visual novels with multiple endings, you have the choice to skip the bad parts, if you play your cards right. That's why there are multiple choices during the story. If you get the good ending, why bother going back to see the bad ending if you have no interest in it??
You're not a fan enough to want to play the whole game or you're too much of a wuss to subject yourself to something that will make you feel sad.
Does that mean people who don't complete video games 100% aren't true fans?? I certainly don't think so.

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