Katawa Und Panzer

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Munchenhausen
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Munchenhausen » Thu May 29, 2014 3:50 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote:Yea because the kids at Yamaku can get tanks that never existed and were only written on paper. also the AMX 40 has less armor than the Matilda MK.II (which was made IRL and is a pretty awesome tank in WoT as well). Be careful about the tanks in WoT. Lots of them are paper tanks and some are even made-up (yes there are largely made up tanks in WoT. Waffentrager auf E-100 is a fantastic example).
Ah. Shit.
I knew they had prototypes and concept tanks on there, but I was sure the AMX 40 was one that actually existed.

whoopsie poopsie :oops:
Still fucking love the French Tanks, for some reason
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by SpunkySix » Thu May 29, 2014 4:41 pm

Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Steinherz » Thu May 29, 2014 5:31 pm

SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made. As I said, one of the schools even had the Panzer VIII Maus which never got past the prototype stages. The only reason a one physically exists is because the Russians captured a prototype body and cannon from two different factories and married them together for the tank museum they have.
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Munchenhausen » Thu May 29, 2014 5:42 pm

Steinherz wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made. As I said, one of the schools even had the Panzer VIII Maus which never got past the prototype stages. The only reason a one physically exists is because the Russians captured a prototype body and cannon from two different factories and married them together for the tank museum they have.
IIRC, they found one in working operation (but abandoned by the mechanics) and two half-built... Mauses?
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Thu May 29, 2014 5:44 pm

Steinherz wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made. As I said, one of the schools even had the Panzer VIII Maus which never got past the prototype stages. The only reason a one physically exists is because the Russians captured a prototype body and cannon from two different factories and married them together for the tank museum they have.
Eh I thought the Maus that they had at the museum was the fully assembled Maus. If its another one than where is the fully assembled one? Was it destroyed?
But yea Panzer und girls is sort of realistic. There is a big focus on German tanks though. It makes me sad to not see enough British tanks (although I do love German tanks as well).
They also have a manga only battle with Italian tanks as well. I'm pretty happy with Italian tanks getting the love they deserve. The Carro Armato P 40 is certainly a nice tank. Sad that they didn't give much to the Italian Tank destroyers. The Semovente 105/25 is quite cool.

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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by AussieInquisitor » Thu May 29, 2014 6:07 pm

But yea Panzer und girls is sort of realistic. There is a big focus on German tanks though. It makes me sad to not see enough British tanks (although I do love German tanks as well).
They also have a manga only battle with Italian tanks as well. I'm pretty happy with Italian tanks getting the love they deserve. The Carro Armato P 40 is certainly a nice tank. Sad that they didn't give much to the Italian Tank destroyers. The Semovente 105/25 is quite cool.
Meh, most of it comes down to the writer's choice, others (I suspect) are due to whether the tanks in question might be competitive enough in the field.

For example: the British and Italian designs. For the latter, Italy mainly deployed a combination of tankettes (think of a lightly armoured assault gun) and light and medium armour during the war. Charitably speaking, they worked great against infantry-only units, but the moment anything with so much as a 2 pound anti-tank gun showed up, 75% of the time, they went up in smoke. Some Italian designs, however, did cause a few headaches for the Allies who fought them later on, but compared to the German designs, they were comparatively inferior.

The British, admittedly, fell behind the other powers (despite being one of the pioneering nations of armoured warfare) at the outbreak of conflict, so a lot of their early tanks were focused around either infantry support (like the Matilda II), light reconnisence (such as a Vickers' design, whose name escaped me) or were of the 'cruiser' doctrine (A15 Crusader, Cruiser I and even influenced the Cromwell) - you may not be able to outfight your opponent pound for pound, but you can run rings about him.

Later British designs, such as the Churchill, Cromwell and Sherman VC, overcame a number of gaps and/or were designed for specific tasks in mind.
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by SpunkySix » Thu May 29, 2014 6:13 pm

Steinherz wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made.
Ah, well then. I know next to nothing about tanks, so from here on out I'll just be reading and learning a bit about them instead.
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Thu May 29, 2014 6:41 pm

AussieInquisitor wrote:
But yea Panzer und girls is sort of realistic. There is a big focus on German tanks though. It makes me sad to not see enough British tanks (although I do love German tanks as well).
They also have a manga only battle with Italian tanks as well. I'm pretty happy with Italian tanks getting the love they deserve. The Carro Armato P 40 is certainly a nice tank. Sad that they didn't give much to the Italian Tank destroyers. The Semovente 105/25 is quite cool.
Meh, most of it comes down to the writer's choice, others (I suspect) are due to whether the tanks in question might be competitive enough in the field.

For example: the British and Italian designs. For the latter, Italy mainly deployed a combination of tankettes (think of a lightly armoured assault gun) and light and medium armour during the war. Charitably speaking, they worked great against infantry-only units, but the moment anything with so much as a 2 pound anti-tank gun showed up, 75% of the time, they went up in smoke. Some Italian designs, however, did cause a few headaches for the Allies who fought them later on, but compared to the German designs, they were comparatively inferior.

The British, admittedly, fell behind the other powers (despite being one of the pioneering nations of armoured warfare) at the outbreak of conflict, so a lot of their early tanks were focused around either infantry support (like the Matilda II), light reconnisence (such as a Vickers' design, whose name escaped me) or were of the 'cruiser' doctrine (A15 Crusader, Cruiser I and even influenced the Cromwell) - you may not be able to outfight your opponent pound for pound, but you can run rings about him.

Later British designs, such as the Churchill, Cromwell and Sherman VC, overcame a number of gaps and/or were designed for specific tasks in mind.
The Italian Semivente series were quite good. The p 40 was quite a good tank being somewhat competetive. The Italians also had the p.43 and P.40bis ideas which would have resulted in two relatively competitive heavy and medium tanks respectively. Of course these plans were quite lacklustre when compared to the brilliant Hungarian and Czech tank ideas but they would still fare quite well.
I would also love to have seen French tanks in GuP. The B1 tar is quite a good tank in my opinion with a good number of powerful upgrades. I think there were some plans to do with upgrading the Somua s35 as well but I can't remember. My knowledge on French tanks is very limited.

It was quite unfair if you to claim that British designs were uncompetitive. As you have stated they were very much specialized tanks that did what they were required to. However I do believe that the Comet was quite a competitive and effective fighting vehicle.

BTW by that Vickers design do you mean the Valentine? It is quite a good infantry tank. It was very well produced with a high number of 8600 or so being produced. Sad that I know very little of it. I prefer the queen of the desert.

Do not underestimate countries such as Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Sweden. They had very advanced tank designs that would rival the Panther. Just check out the beautiful Tas Rohamlovig. A Hungarian tank destroyer design that is very much effective. It is based on the 44M tas which is a very competitive Hungarian design.
Sad thing is these countries never got the time nor money or resources to create these beautiful beasts.

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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by AussieInquisitor » Thu May 29, 2014 7:16 pm

It was quite unfair if you to claim that British designs were uncompetitive...
Probably bad sentence structuring on my end - if I was implying that at all, then I would have been referring to some of the inter-war designs that were, ultimately, unsuccessful (Maltilda I, anyone?).
BTW by that Vickers design do you mean the Valentine?
Eh, not exactly - as I was referring to an inter-war design (just couldn't remember the name) - though the Valentine is, without a doubt, certainly quite a successful design. The A15 Crusader also comes to mind, if you're after an early war, local design that did OK; it was retired in '42 primarily to mechanical problems and, despite an upgrade to a 6 pounder gun, it's relatively light armour.

Hmm, its also a shame that the wider conscience hasn't heard of many of the designs and tanks of many regional or minor powers (such as, as you mentioned, Hungary) - I myself know only of the Czech 35 and 38t, which were adapted within the Wehrmacht. And yeah, I'm sure GuP could have used a few French designs, such as the Char B1 and Somoua S-35 (though one must wonder if the German-themed team employs a captured S-35 in their arsenal).
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Munchenhausen » Thu May 29, 2014 7:38 pm

SpunkySix wrote:Ah, well then. I know next to nothing about tanks, so from here on out I'll just be reading and learning a bit about them instead.
Same, honestly :P My knowledge of tanks is pretty much from World of Tanks and little other details I've picked up.

One thing I can contribute though, is that British Tanks were pretty weak for the first part of WWII, simply because we're an Island Nation :P Made more sense to focus on the RAF and the RN, since we were more on the defensive and tanks generally don't float.

It was only when the war moved further into mainland Europe when we realised "Hey up, we're pretty damn out-tanked, here."
Like stupid, silly doodles with no point? You've come to the right place, friend :^)
I also occasionally write oneshots. Why not have a skimread?
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Steinherz » Thu May 29, 2014 7:48 pm

Munchenhausen wrote:
Steinherz wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made. As I said, one of the schools even had the Panzer VIII Maus which never got past the prototype stages. The only reason a one physically exists is because the Russians captured a prototype body and cannon from two different factories and married them together for the tank museum they have.
IIRC, they found one in working operation (but abandoned by the mechanics) and two half-built... Mauses?
Nope. The completely one was destroyed in a bombing. And iirc the plural of Maus is Maus.
Forever_ambivalent wrote:
Steinherz wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Oops, I was under the impression that this anime was a little wackier with its tech, kind of like Oban Star Racers. Sounds like it's more grounded in reality in that aspect though?
Nope, Girls und Panzer had only tanks that were real or had prototypes made. As I said, one of the schools even had the Panzer VIII Maus which never got past the prototype stages. The only reason a one physically exists is because the Russians captured a prototype body and cannon from two different factories and married them together for the tank museum they have.
Eh I thought the Maus that they had at the museum was the fully assembled Maus. If its another one than where is the fully assembled one?
The Maus in the museum is parts from 2 different tanks from 2 different factories
Forever_ambivalent wrote:But yea Panzer und girls is sort of realistic. There is a big focus on German tanks though. It makes me sad to not see enough British tanks (although I do love German tanks as well).
They also have a manga only battle with Italian tanks as well. I'm pretty happy with Italian tanks getting the love they deserve. The Carro Armato P 40 is certainly a nice tank. Sad that they didn't give much to the Italian Tank destroyers. The Semovente 105/25 is quite cool.
Ehh, the only school that focuses on the German tanks is the Kuromorimine School. Each school aside from Ōarai focuses on a specific Country's tanks too.

St. Gloriana Women's Academy uses British, Saunders College High uses American, Anzio Academy uses Italian, Pravda High School is Russian and Kuromorimine Women's College uses German.

Ōarai Girls' Academy has a:
Panzer IV Ausf. D (German), Type 89 I-Go (Japan), StuG III (German), M3 Lee (American), Pz38(t) (Czech) which was upgraded to a Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" (German), Char B1 bis (French), Type 3 Chi-Nu (Japanese), and a Porsche Tiger aka Tiger(P) (German).

4 out of 9 isn't that much anyways
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Thu May 29, 2014 7:51 pm

AussieInquisitor wrote:
It was quite unfair if you to claim that British designs were uncompetitive...
Probably bad sentence structuring on my end - if I was implying that at all, then I would have been referring to some of the inter-war designs that were, ultimately, unsuccessful (Maltilda I, anyone?).
BTW by that Vickers design do you mean the Valentine?
Eh, not exactly - as I was referring to an inter-war design (just couldn't remember the name) - though the Valentine is, without a doubt, certainly quite a successful design. The A15 Crusader also comes to mind, if you're after an early war, local design that did OK; it was retired in '42 primarily to mechanical problems and, despite an upgrade to a 6 pounder gun, it's relatively light armour.


Hmm, its also a shame that the wider conscience hasn't heard of many of the designs and tanks of many regional or minor powers (such as, as you mentioned, Hungary) - I myself know only of the Czech 35 and 38t, which were adapted within the Wehrmacht. And yeah, I'm sure GuP could have used a few French designs, such as the Char B1 and Somoua S-35 (though one must wonder if the German-themed team employs a captured S-35 in their arsenal).
The Germans gave away their French tanks the majority of the time. You will find quite a few Somua's under Italy's control. BTW wasn't the Matilda mk.1 a pre-WW2 design that was made in 1936? Wait inter-war means mid WW2 not before WW2 right?
The Hungarian's and Czech's shared their tank design. The Turan (1 and 2) is based off the Czech T-21 and T-22 designs. Its basically an enhanced T-21 and T-22 I think.
I think this was the only way Czech T-21 and T-22 were produced. As Hungarian modified tanks. They are undoubtedly Hungarian tanks though.
There is also the Turan 3 which is even more advanced and is a tank that is competitive with panzer 4 and t-34's.
Unfortunately producing Turan 3's became redundant as they were being supplied with panzer 4's anyway.

There is also the Zrinyi which I don't know to much about. They look surprisingly similar to the Italian semovente's though. The Toldi series is based off the Swedish landsverk l-60 which is a pretty darn nice pre-war Swedish light tank.

I know a bit more about the M44 Tas and Tas Rohamlovig but that is for another time. Also for CCzech tanks you should not underestimate the t-24 and T-25. BTW the T-25 in WoT is complete BS. Czech tanks are quite their own beasts. They just never gave the time to shine because of Germany.
These poor little axis countries. All of them with their spectacular tank designs coming to an end because of Hitler and the allies pressuring them.

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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Steinherz » Thu May 29, 2014 8:16 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote:The Germans gave away their French tanks the majority of the time. You will find quite a few Somua's under Italy's control. BTW wasn't the Matilda mk.1 a pre-WW2 design that was made in 1936? Wait inter-war means mid WW2 not before WW2 right?
Inter-war means between a War.
1936 is inter-war because WWII started in 1939
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by AussieInquisitor » Thu May 29, 2014 8:39 pm

Forever_ambivalent wrote: The Germans gave away their French tanks the majority of the time. You will find quite a few Somua's under Italy's control. BTW wasn't the Matilda mk.1 a pre-WW2 design that was made in 1936? Wait inter-war means mid WW2 not before WW2 right?
The Hungarian's and Czech's shared their tank design. The Turan (1 and 2) is based off the Czech T-21 and T-22 designs. Its basically an enhanced T-21 and T-22 I think.
I think this was the only way Czech T-21 and T-22 were produced. As Hungarian modified tanks. They are undoubtedly Hungarian tanks though.
There is also the Turan 3 which is even more advanced and is a tank that is competitive with panzer 4 and t-34's.
Unfortunately producing Turan 3's became redundant as they were being supplied with panzer 4's anyway.

There is also the Zrinyi which I don't know to much about. They look surprisingly similar to the Italian semovente's though. The Toldi series is based off the Swedish landsverk l-60 which is a pretty darn nice pre-war Swedish light tank.

I know a bit more about the M44 Tas and Tas Rohamlovig but that is for another time. Also for CCzech tanks you should not underestimate the t-24 and T-25. BTW the T-25 in WoT is complete BS. Czech tanks are quite their own beasts. They just never gave the time to shine because of Germany.
These poor little axis countries. All of them with their spectacular tank designs coming to an end because of Hitler and the allies pressuring them.
I generally use 'inter-war' to refer to the twenty years between World War One and Two. To avoid confusion, I use 'mid-war' for the period around '42 and '43.

The Matilda I, according to the curator of the Bovington Tank Museum, was an inter-war design that was, more or less, made on a very limited budget - "... we've got 6 to 10,000 pounds to spend, build us a cheap tank.". Their only stipulation was that the tank was to have as much armour as can be economically placed. As a result, this two man, infantry support tank went into battle armed with a turret-mounted machine gun.

Suffice to say, not many in the BEF liked them and they were well and truly dropped from the order of battle post-Dunkirk.

Its successor, the 6-pounder armed Matilda II, was used within the British armed forces as a main battle tank up until the end of the African campaign, while it found a new lease of life within the Soviet Union (several examples were sent over under Lend-Lease) and in Australia up until the end of the war (we developed the Frog and Murray (flamethrower tanks) and the Matilda Hedgehog (basically a standard Matilda II with a spigot launcher mounded on the back).

Oh, and cheers for the info on some of those designs.
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Re: Katawa Und Panzer

Post by Silentcook » Thu May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

People, I positively love WW2 material, GuP and WoT, but not when they start appearing standalone on these forums. Please keep to the original topic - no Katawa, no dice.
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