Is it just me?

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
User avatar
AaronIsCrunchy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:28 pm
Location: Portsmouth, floating.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by AaronIsCrunchy » Sat May 03, 2014 5:48 pm

I think it's only left open in a sense that you wonder what happened to each character and (in event of good ending) how their relationship panned out. In a way, I prefer the lack of closure as it allows for speculation and discussion on boards such as these :)
Because green eyes are best eyes.
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9511 - A thread of my drawings. Don't expect a lot.


User avatar
SpunkySix
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm
Location: Lost in thought... somewhere.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by SpunkySix » Sat May 03, 2014 7:12 pm

AaronIsCrunchy wrote:I think it's only left open in a sense that you wonder what happened to each character and (in event of good ending) how their relationship panned out. In a way, I prefer the lack of closure as it allows for speculation and discussion on boards such as these :)
I constantly have an internal battle when I think about KS over whether such ambiguity with so much relationship left unseen is better, or if I'd rather see the couples through to marriage and maybe even death.

That's not something we think about much, huh? These characters will all eventually die, realistically. What mark do they leave on their world before then?
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

User avatar
Darklord13
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:19 pm

Re: Is it just me?

Post by Darklord13 » Sat May 03, 2014 7:13 pm

When i said ''a sequel'' i meant something like Sisterhood.A (small) continuation of each route.I wouldn't mind reading their(hanako and hisao)first date.
''Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind.'' - Marcel Proust

User avatar
AaronIsCrunchy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:28 pm
Location: Portsmouth, floating.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by AaronIsCrunchy » Sat May 03, 2014 7:29 pm

SpunkySix wrote:
AaronIsCrunchy wrote:I think it's only left open in a sense that you wonder what happened to each character and (in event of good ending) how their relationship panned out. In a way, I prefer the lack of closure as it allows for speculation and discussion on boards such as these :)
I constantly have an internal battle when I think about KS over whether such ambiguity with so much relationship left unseen is better, or if I'd rather see the couples through to marriage and maybe even death.

That's not something we think about much, huh? These characters will all eventually die, realistically. What mark do they leave on their world before then?
GAH, that's a thought. I think Shizune would probably leave the widest impact on people through her philanthropy, regardless whether she chooses to do so using her wealth or through the Salvation Army (or the Japanese equivalent, be it the Sally Army or something else). If all goes to plan, Lilly might inspire a generation of English-speakers, which to her would probably be a great achievement. It could be that any of them view their personal lives, be it with Hisao or others, as their legacy, proud of their children and what they could go on to achieve.
Because green eyes are best eyes.
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9511 - A thread of my drawings. Don't expect a lot.


bhtooefr
Posts: 1353
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:20 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

Re: Is it just me?

Post by bhtooefr » Sat May 03, 2014 7:48 pm

There's always mehkanik's (that guy's) stories, for continuations of each route (Hanako and Emi completed), and brythain's story (for continuations of Lilly's bad end from many POVs, to death for most characters).

Warning, with mehkanik's stories, you will hate Emi, and then later feel sorry for Hisao. And you'll feel horrified for Hanako.
bhtooefr's one-shot and drabble thread
Enjoy The Silence - Sequel to All I Have (complete)
Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking zombies on this motherfucking forum!

User avatar
SpunkySix
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm
Location: Lost in thought... somewhere.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by SpunkySix » Sat May 03, 2014 10:38 pm

bhtooefr wrote:with mehkanik's stories, you will hate Emi
I'll... pass, on that one.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

User avatar
Atario
Posts: 1358
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:06 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Is it just me?

Post by Atario » Sun May 04, 2014 11:21 am

SpunkySix wrote:see the couples through to marriage and maybe even death.

That's not something we think about much, huh? These characters will all eventually die, realistically.
I love how you spoiler-tagged one of human life's universal inevitabilities. :o
NB: none of the above is a request

Mutou Gets Fired — a little one-shot fanfic I wrote

User avatar
brythain
Posts: 3553
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:58 pm
Location: Eastasia
Contact:

Re: Is it just me?

Post by brythain » Sun May 04, 2014 12:08 pm

Atario wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:see the couples through to marriage and maybe even death.

That's not something we think about much, huh? These characters will all eventually die, realistically.
I love how you spoiler-tagged one of human life's universal inevitabilities. :o
I must say that writing fanfic that takes these people (they're not just characters anymore if you write fanfic, right? :) ) to marriage and even to death is a bit extreme. It's also very painful for both writer and reader, I think.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

User avatar
AaronIsCrunchy
Posts: 1084
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:28 pm
Location: Portsmouth, floating.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by AaronIsCrunchy » Sun May 04, 2014 12:33 pm

brythain wrote:
Atario wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:see the couples through to marriage and maybe even death.

That's not something we think about much, huh? These characters will all eventually die, realistically.
I love how you spoiler-tagged one of human life's universal inevitabilities. :o
I must say that writing fanfic that takes these people (they're not just characters anymore if you write fanfic, right? :) ) to marriage and even to death is a bit extreme. It's also very painful for both writer and reader, I think.
Writing to death would take FOREVER, unless it's a tragedy where it starts to look like Hisao's life is getting on track and then BAM, heart attack. And reading fanfiction that challenges War and Peace in length would get tedious after a while, unless it was stupidly well written. And then it's a matter of if the writer is up to that. Not gonna lie, I could handle reading a fanfic up to marriage, but then I'm a soppy wotsit really :L
Because green eyes are best eyes.
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9511 - A thread of my drawings. Don't expect a lot.


User avatar
Aura
>has heterochromia
Posts: 3286
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:21 am

Re: Is it just me?

Post by Aura » Sun May 04, 2014 2:26 pm

This whole thing of people feeling the stories are unfinished because they don't cover something like the entire lives or even just significantly longer timeframes of the characters is not something we thought would happen. There are two explanations: either it's the fan phenomenon at work, or we actually did cut the stories too short to make for satisfactory conclusions.

If you think about the narrative arcs in KS though, you can probably see why they end when they do. Every ending resolves the plot, more or less. It would've been really weird to continue the stories from that point onward, at least for me. Longer timeframes would've made the novel different, almost definitely more slice-of-lifey. But even if KS is a character-focused story, we wanted to do storytelling, not write biographies or do pure character based sitcom. In fact, KS has a lot of hot air in it and should be considerably shorter, in my opinion.

I think I'm biased to thinking like this in things I'm not personally responsible for. I don't watch season after season of TV shows, or read multi-volume fantasy epics, I just don't care for that kind of thing.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

User avatar
SpunkySix
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm
Location: Lost in thought... somewhere.

Re: Is it just me?

Post by SpunkySix » Sun May 04, 2014 7:34 pm

brythain wrote:It's also very painful for both writer and reader, I think.
Ah, but sometimes those are the most important things to address.

I can understand why you're thinking that, Aura. I disagree, personally I like longer stories with lots of parts and arcs and all that, (PPGZ needed more than two seasons) but I can see why you might not.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

User avatar
brythain
Posts: 3553
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:58 pm
Location: Eastasia
Contact:

Re: Is it just me?

Post by brythain » Sun May 04, 2014 9:11 pm

I think Aura's right, in the sense that KS can be satisfactory on its own; each conclusion can be an ending and that is all. However, humans do like a little bit of 'what if', and that's why novels like 'Gone With The Wind' and 'Pride and Prejudice' are perfectly good on their own, but still get sequels made.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

Ritter Delorges
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:51 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Is it just me?

Post by Ritter Delorges » Sun May 04, 2014 9:53 pm

I think those things are called "visual novels" because (especially in English) "novel" has become the default term for long prose. However I think that at least in the case of KS the individual routes are better viewed as novellas. Of course the whole thing is something else, but I would argue that it is still isn't really a traditional novel proper.

The difference is not just one of word count but of the scope of what it wants to show. A typical novel shows an extended journey of a character and the development of that character. In such a work it makes sense to cover a substantial part of the protagonist's life, explore his background in detail and possibly provide some sense of closure to his journey. Novellas on the other hand tend to focus on an event. Characters are explored in relation to that. Backgrounds and futures can remain sketchy. What is important is how the characters fit into this event and any backstory exists to explain that. This event does not have to be literally one instant. Instead it can be something slightly more complex like "How I fell in love with X", but that is still very different from "The life and adventures of Hisao and X". It doesn't attempt to tell us all there is to know about the characters, but all there is to know about how they met and fell in love and what that meant for them.

User avatar
brythain
Posts: 3553
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:58 pm
Location: Eastasia
Contact:

Re: Is it just me?

Post by brythain » Sun May 04, 2014 10:14 pm

Ritter Delorges wrote:I think those things are called "visual novels" because (especially in English) "novel" has become the default term for long prose. However I think that at least in the case of KS the individual routes are better viewed as novellas. Of course the whole thing is something else, but I would argue that it is still isn't really a traditional novel proper.

The difference is not just one of word count but of the scope of what it wants to show. A typical novel shows an extended journey of a character and the development of that character. In such a work it makes sense to cover a substantial part of the protagonist's life, explore his background in detail and possibly provide some sense of closure to his journey. Novellas on the other hand tend to focus on an event. Characters are explored in relation to that. Backgrounds and futures can remain sketchy. What is important is how the characters fit into this event and any backstory exists to explain that. This event does not have to be literally one instant. Instead it can be something slightly more complex like "How I fell in love with X", but that is still very different from "The life and adventures of Hisao and X". It doesn't attempt to tell us all there is to know about the characters, but all there is to know about how they met and fell in love and what that meant for them.
I think this is a useful way to look at it. For myself, a VN and its possible outcomes are like a compilation around a theme, in which a basic scenario is provided and authors are invited to contribute possible or plausible outcomes that are consistent with that basic scenario (much of Act 1, in this case). The choices that a VN reader has are completely constrained, so all the possible combinations can be assigned to different authors and/or different outcome-stories.

A sequel to this VN can then be thought of in terms of taking one of those outcome-stories as a new basic scenario or 'starting node', and then developing it—a sort of extended epilogue. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but it can be entertaining for people who preferred that particular outcome-story or who had an interest of some sort in that particular outcome-story.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

User avatar
Potato
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Re: Is it just me?

Post by Potato » Tue May 06, 2014 4:00 pm

arthritis_5 wrote:OK Im agreeing this this person. I NEED A SECOND GAME... 4LS left the game wide open for a second part
...What version did you play? :?
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

Post Reply