April Fools...?

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
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SpunkySix
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by SpunkySix » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:17 am

Glad to hear I could bring music into your life. :wink:
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DRKO
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by DRKO » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:50 pm

SpunkySix wrote:
Hey, who knows? He could've stayed up all night and gotten lucky.
Those kinds of algorithms are usually O(∑^n), where ∑ is the set of potential characters valid in the password, and n is the length of the password. Even for just lower case letters, that ends up being 26^14 = 6.45e+19. All alphanumeric characters (not including symbols) is 1.24e+25. As soon as you throw in special symbols (like $, #, %), that number increases even more so. If you don't know the password's length, you have to test all n from 1 to the max known size, theoretically infinity, compounding the time even more so.

In other words, he would be very, very lucky if he managed to crack it in any reasonable amount of time on a consumer-level machine, and should consider playing the lottery. Not that it isn't possible, but the odds are ever not in his favor.

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Re: April Fools...?

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:31 am

DRKO wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:
Hey, who knows? He could've stayed up all night and gotten lucky.
Those kinds of algorithms are usually O(∑^n), where ∑ is the set of potential characters valid in the password, and n is the length of the password. Even for just lower case letters, that ends up being 26^14 = 6.45e+19. All alphanumeric characters (not including symbols) is 1.24e+25. As soon as you throw in special symbols (like $, #, %), that number increases even more so. If you don't know the password's length, you have to test all n from 1 to the max known size, theoretically infinity, compounding the time even more so.

In other words, he would be very, very lucky if he managed to crack it in any reasonable amount of time on a consumer-level machine, and should consider playing the lottery. Not that it isn't possible, but the odds are ever not in his favor.
Wow, a really cool math lesson AND a Hunger Games reference... nice.
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Comrade
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Comrade » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:22 am

DRKO wrote:math
Gaylord...
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:55 am

Comrade wrote:
DRKO wrote:math
Gaylord...
I'm firmly against the use of such derogatory language, but man, if there was ever an appropriate time to use it to describe something... "math" is it.
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Comrade » Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:05 am

There is nothing wrong with being called lord of the gays, unless you have something against gay people
Last edited by Comrade on Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wazuzu
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by wazuzu » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:14 am

DRKO wrote:In other words, he would be very, very lucky if he managed to crack it in any reasonable amount of time on a consumer-level machine, and should consider playing the lottery. Not that it isn't possible, but the odds are ever not in his favor.
That is relatively close to my point. I was aiming on BFing 5 symbols, not more. Even that would take a considerable amount of time. BFing 14-symbol password consisting of upper- and lowercase letters and numbers only is approximately 13537086546263552 times harder, if my calculations are correct.

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Re: April Fools...?

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:29 am

Comrade wrote:There is nothing wrong with being called lord of the gays, unless you have something against gay people
But saying that math is the lord of gays is an insult to gays, really. Why would they let something so lame lead them?
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DRKO
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by DRKO » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:21 pm

SpunkySix wrote: Wow, a really cool math lesson AND a Hunger Games reference... nice.
I try my best. As someone who has 5/8ths of a computer science degree, and is working on the last parts of it, it's something that interests me. A large part of it is the design and analysis of computer algorithms.
SpunkySix wrote:
Comrade wrote: Gaylord...
I'm firmly against the use of such derogatory language, but man, if there was ever an appropriate time to use it to describe something... "math" is it.
Math isn't that bad. All your computer is is a glorified calculator. The basic instructions for a processor are move this number from here to there, add these two numbers, and flip the bits of this number, really. There are various other macros that will do several operations in a row for you to accomplish more complicated things, such as addition and subtraction, or something like MOVEQs that use the floating-point unit to crunch some decimal numbers in parallel for you. Without math, nearly all electronics wouldn't exist. You may not like it that much, but you should at least be appreciative of the other people who do, because they make your life a whole lot easier.
wazuzu wrote: That is relatively close to my point. I was aiming on BFing 5 symbols, not more. Even that would take a considerable amount of time. BFing 14-symbol password consisting of upper- and lowercase letters and numbers only is approximately 13537086546263552 times harder, if my calculations are correct.
I'm not sure of the exact difficulty increase, but you're about right. The problem becomes exponentially harder as you add more symbols to the alphabet.

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Umber
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Umber » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:45 pm

wazuzu wrote:approximately 13537086546263552 times harder, if my calculations are correct
I'm relatively positive that, while it's still appropriate to approximate numerical values of seventeen digits or more, 'approximately' would more appropriately precede a shorthand exponent to spare most eyes the result of a large string of arithmetic. But that's my personal opinion.

It's just a number that hurts to look at. :(
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Potato » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:13 am

DRKO wrote:You may not like it that much, but you should at least be appreciative of the other people who do, because they make your life a whole lot easier.
And here we see the "guy taking a VN joke too seriously" in his natural habitat...

How'd we go from April Fools to math anyway? :lol:
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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DRKO
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by DRKO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:21 am

I think I missed the joke... Yeah, I totally did. Whoops.

The math was my fault, I think, after explaining that a brute force approach to cracking the password was near impossible.

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Umber
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Umber » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:22 am

Potato wrote: And here we see the "guy taking a VN joke too seriously" in his natural habitat...

How'd we go from April Fools to math anyway? :lol:
But jokes are fun. And you're no fun, Potato. [/bawl] [/sarcasm]

Also, here, here, and it solidified earlier over here on this page. It's more understandable as a tangent than it is relevant to the thread.
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DRKO
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by DRKO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:26 am

Yep. Was totally my fault after I broke out the Greek symbols and scientific notation.

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Potato
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Re: April Fools...?

Post by Potato » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:33 am

Umber wrote:
Potato wrote: And here we see the "guy taking a VN joke too seriously" in his natural habitat...

How'd we go from April Fools to math anyway? :lol:
But jokes are fun. And you're no fun, Potato. [/bawl] [/sarcasm]
Umber pls.

Disregarding whether or not it's even a thing in Japan because I'm American and we don't need to know heathen cultures [/joke], I wonder if anyone at Yamaku would celebrate April Fools' Day...Probably Emi would...
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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