How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's name?

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Potato
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Potato » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:49 am

SpunkySix wrote:Like talking to Tim Schaefer or something. That'd be... double fine.
You should feel bad. Go sit in the corner. >_>
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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SpunkySix
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by SpunkySix » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:07 am

Potato wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Like talking to Tim Schaefer or something. That'd be... double fine.
You should feel bad. Go sit in the corner. >_>
Fine, fine, I will.

Gosh, what a psycho... not.
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Loonie » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:43 am

Don't see the point really.

Hisao is as Hisao does. :P

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russianspy1234
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by russianspy1234 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:21 pm

Hisao is his own character. If you add an option to change his own name you might as well add that option to every character:

"This is my mom... what's her name again?"
<<Input Name>>
"Ahh that's right, her name is Milfy"

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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by SpunkySix » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:00 pm

So basically this idea is dumb/10 then. Kind of expected it after how the first few comments in the other topic went, but thought I'd check.
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Xaredian » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:20 am

Jailbreaker wrote:Sounds nice at first, but the more I think about it, the more I don't like it. The problem is that Hisao does things in some routes that I would never have done in that situation - especially in the bad ends. If I were to have the game identify the protagonist as being me, I'd rather it actually be me than some other guy with my name. Once we get to the point where we're offering that many different dialogue options and possible resulting storylines, we're so far removed from the original game that being able to change Hisao's name seems like a minor change.
Pretty much this. It sounds good at first... and then you get past the first act, and... yeah...
Most of us wouldn't do what Hisao does in a lot of those situations.
Also, it's a story about HIM and a certain girl, it's our "job" to give him a certain girl.

While sick or blasphemous in my mind. We're technically playing God with Hisao.
Potato wrote:
Guest Poster wrote:No doubt some people would REALLY like to put in their own name for scenes like the one where Lilly has her ILOVEYOUILOVEYOUILOVEYOU moment, but then those same people would probably be even more prone to avoiding the bad ends of the routes because they wouldn't be able to handle the idea of the girls being angry at them. So yeah, double edged sword.

Like other people said, Hisao's his own character so there's no point in pretending he's a faceless extension of the player.
Those people can always go play Artificial Academy. :mrgreen:
I wonder if I should get that, when I get my new laptop. Hmmmm...
Then again, I might have way to much fun making my OCs in that. Which none of them are related to KS, in anyway, shape, or form.
Kyler Thatch wrote:So different that some people (though not me) would argue that visual novels aren't really video games.
There was a review I saw for Katawa Shoujo once, that perfectly depicted Katawa Shoujo. "It's like an RL Stine book." Something about choosing things to go down a certain path, i'm assuming? I've never read the guy's books myself, but... I knew there are/were books out there that was choice based.

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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Kyler Thatch » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:13 am

Xaredian wrote:
Kyler Thatch wrote:So different that some people (though not me) would argue that visual novels aren't really video games.
There was a review I saw for Katawa Shoujo once, that perfectly depicted Katawa Shoujo. "It's like an RL Stine book." Something about choosing things to go down a certain path, i'm assuming? I've never read the guy's books myself, but... I knew there are/were books out there that was choice based.
There were all these "Choose Your Own Adventure" books that I used to read, which I would guess is where Goosebumps got the idea. Though they can be terrible at making the different choices relevant to the progression of the story.

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someguy1294
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by someguy1294 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:17 am

Kyler Thatch wrote: There were all these "Choose Your Own Adventure" books that I used to read, which I would guess is where Goosebumps got the idea. Though they can be terrible at making the different choices relevant to the progression of the story.
Honestly, I've read quite a few choose your own adventure books, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-electronic one that wasn't intended merely for children.
My OC, Kuki Kamikogo: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9500

Favorite Katawa Girls, in Order from Best to Worst:
Rin, Hanako, Misha, Miki, Akira, Emi's Mom, Emi, Yuuko, Shizune, Iwanako, Lilly.

Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Munchenhausen » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:23 am

russianspy1234 wrote:Hisao is his own character. If you add an option to change his own name you might as well add that option to every character:

"This is my mom... what's her name again?"
<<Input Name>>
"Ahh that's right, her name is Milfy"
The Pokemon effect comes in to play.
"There's an armless girl sat on the art tables. I remember meeting her, but I can't quite remember her name...

Oh yes! Her name was AssButt!"
Like stupid, silly doodles with no point? You've come to the right place, friend :^)
I also occasionally write oneshots. Why not have a skimread?
Miki fic? Miki fic!
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SpunkySix
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by SpunkySix » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:07 am

Munchenhausen wrote:
russianspy1234 wrote:Hisao is his own character. If you add an option to change his own name you might as well add that option to every character:

"This is my mom... what's her name again?"
<<Input Name>>
"Ahh that's right, her name is Milfy"
The Pokemon effect comes in to play.
"There's an armless girl sat on the art tables. I remember meeting her, but I can't quite remember her name...

Oh yes! Her name was AssButt!"
I'd have called her Artsy Red.

As for the CYOA books, the choices were really unfair most of the time. Turn left? Burnt to death by a dragon. Turn right? Stomped flat by a giant platypus. Surprise, you doomed yourself to failure back in the first choice when you decided to feed a toaster pastry to the radioactive giraffe even though the story is supposedly about ninjas, enjoy your bad ending!
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Xaredian » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:35 pm

Munchenhausen wrote:
russianspy1234 wrote:Hisao is his own character. If you add an option to change his own name you might as well add that option to every character:

"This is my mom... what's her name again?"
<<Input Name>>
"Ahh that's right, her name is Milfy"
The Pokemon effect comes in to play.
"There's an armless girl sat on the art tables. I remember meeting her, but I can't quite remember her name...

Oh yes! Her name was AssButt!"
Kinda reminds me of one of my friends that was playing pokemon. I think he named his first pokemon "Balls"... which had pound as its first attack.

Yup...
SpunkySix wrote:
Munchenhausen wrote:
russianspy1234 wrote:Hisao is his own character. If you add an option to change his own name you might as well add that option to every character:

"This is my mom... what's her name again?"
<<Input Name>>
"Ahh that's right, her name is Milfy"
The Pokemon effect comes in to play.
"There's an armless girl sat on the art tables. I remember meeting her, but I can't quite remember her name...

Oh yes! Her name was AssButt!"
I'd have called her Artsy Red.

As for the CYOA books, the choices were really unfair most of the time. Turn left? Burnt to death by a dragon. Turn right? Stomped flat by a giant platypus. Surprise, you doomed yourself to failure back in the first choice when you decided to feed a toaster pastry to the radioactive giraffe even though the story is supposedly about ninjas, enjoy your bad ending!
Sounds like Hanako's route. Didn't go to the city with Hanako? Well, you're screwed, even if you listen to Lilly.

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Kyler Thatch
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Kyler Thatch » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:29 pm

Xaredian wrote:
Munchenhausen wrote:As for the CYOA books, the choices were really unfair most of the time. Turn left? Burnt to death by a dragon. Turn right? Stomped flat by a giant platypus. Surprise, you doomed yourself to failure back in the first choice when you decided to feed a toaster pastry to the radioactive giraffe even though the story is supposedly about ninjas, enjoy your bad ending!
Sounds like Hanako's route. Didn't go to the city with Hanako? Well, you're screwed, even if you listen to Lilly.
VN authors are usually better about logical narrative progression, but they're certainly not immune to slipups.

Also, Hisao really doesn't listen to Lilly at all even if the choice implies that he does. In fact, the choice doesn't matter at all, it just leads to the exact same lines (unless I'm misremembering). I would consider that a bit of a mistake, leaving the choice at all when it changes absolutely nothing, and one choice turns out to be completely inaccurate at that.

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russianspy1234
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by russianspy1234 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:32 pm

Kyler Thatch wrote:
Xaredian wrote:
Munchenhausen wrote:As for the CYOA books, the choices were really unfair most of the time. Turn left? Burnt to death by a dragon. Turn right? Stomped flat by a giant platypus. Surprise, you doomed yourself to failure back in the first choice when you decided to feed a toaster pastry to the radioactive giraffe even though the story is supposedly about ninjas, enjoy your bad ending!
Sounds like Hanako's route. Didn't go to the city with Hanako? Well, you're screwed, even if you listen to Lilly.
VN authors are usually better about logical narrative progression, but they're certainly not immune to slipups.

Also, Hisao really doesn't listen to Lilly at all even if the choice implies that he does. In fact, the choice doesn't matter at all, it just leads to the exact same lines (unless I'm misremembering). I would consider that a bit of a mistake, leaving the choice at all when it changes absolutely nothing, and one choice turns out to be completely inaccurate at that.
It is not a mistake, and is in fact absolutely brilliant. If you go to the city with Hanako, when you get the choice it behaves as expected, because you (and more importantly Hisao) has learned a bit about Hanako. If you don't go to the city, the Hisao doesn't learn more about her, and thinks he knows better than Lily. So what we have here, is a protagonist in a VN with so much personality, that he refuses to follow your choice because it would be out of character. It is a major point for not being able to name him, because he is as much a character as the other characters in the VN, and you only have marginally more control over his actions than the rest.

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Potato
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Potato » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:46 pm

SpunkySix wrote:As for the CYOA books, the choices were really unfair most of the time. Turn left? Burnt to death by a dragon. Turn right? Stomped flat by a giant platypus. Surprise, you doomed yourself to failure back in the first choice when you decided to feed a toaster pastry to the radioactive giraffe even though the story is supposedly about ninjas, enjoy your bad ending!
Honestly, CYOA books were pretty much Nethack. :lol:


And russianspy makes a good point.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Kyler Thatch
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Re: How would you feel about being able to change Hisao's na

Post by Kyler Thatch » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:59 pm

It's a good point, but not one that I necessarily agree with.

It's one thing to wrest control from a player in a game where every second is a mini-decision (e.g. cutscenes in an FPS), but in a visual novel, choices have that much more weight to it by virtue of there being precious few of them.

And it doesn't even necessitate a very significant branching of the plot. Even a one-line change ("I know I'm right, and I'm not listening" vs. "you have a point, but..." though not necessarily those exact words) can be enough to make an otherwise cosmetic choice seem meaningful. Otherwise, being presented with a "choice" that does exactly nothing can be needlessly frustrating.

Extra Credits has a couple videos like this one on choice in games that I've borrowed some of my opinions from.

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