Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:03 pm

Atario wrote:In time, you'll come to appreciate her too. I hated Shizune for a while, till I reread her route. I've never fully understood Rin, but then that's kind of the point. In the fullness of time, they all give good facets of the experience.
Hmm. For me it was the other way around. The more I read - and participated in - discussions of Lilly's routes here the more I noticed the flaws of her route...
I don't think the family simile or the china doll comparison are among them though, and neglecting to show that Hisao at least try to call her mobile is a minor point at best.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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someguy1294
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by someguy1294 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Comrade wrote:You guys should calm down. Both sides are making good points, but you should accept not everyone agrees with you, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Whole-heartedly agreed.
My OC, Kuki Kamikogo: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9500

Favorite Katawa Girls, in Order from Best to Worst:
Rin, Hanako, Misha, Miki, Akira, Emi's Mom, Emi, Yuuko, Shizune, Iwanako, Lilly.

Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by someguy1294 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:39 pm

Atario wrote:
someguy1294 wrote:Theory isn't good enough for me. Leaving the reader to pick up the writer's loose ends is bad form.
By the same token, if there had been some internal-monologue lines on Hisao's part that did the exposition on this, that would also be attacked as unnatural shoehorning ("I should call her! Oh wait— she already shut off her phone service. Damn, what to do… I know!").
Not everyone loves Lily, or her route. Get over it. Suck it up, fanboy.
I think the reason you're getting flak is that you seem intent on proving that your least favorite is objectively bad and will brook nothing to the contrary.

In time, you'll come to appreciate her too.
Rather than an internal monlogue, he could have just called her and found that her phone was turned off/dead/out of service... action is usually more interesting than internal monologue, anyways.

Yes, I am going to efforts to defend my opinion on Lily, but considering the attacks I have received for expressing a negative opinion in the first place, backing up my argument has proved necessary. In addition, if you check my signature, you will see that Lily is not my least favorite.

You seem a little too confident about Lily's route growing on me. Sometimes people simply don't like certain stories, and this doesn't mean that they're unenlightened and will one day wake up singing and the truth of a story's beauty will blossom like a spring daisy in their skulls and they will question why they ever disliked the story. Am I going to wake up one day and decide that, say, Stephen King's 'Cujo' was well-written? Am I going to suddenly gain an appreciation for 'Alien Versus Predator: Requiem'? Doubtful.
My OC, Kuki Kamikogo: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9500

Favorite Katawa Girls, in Order from Best to Worst:
Rin, Hanako, Misha, Miki, Akira, Emi's Mom, Emi, Yuuko, Shizune, Iwanako, Lilly.

Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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Oddball
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Oddball » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:45 pm

You seem a little too confident about Lily's route growing on me. Sometimes people simply don't like certain stories, and this doesn't mean that they're unenlightened and will one day wake up singing and the truth of a story's beauty will blossom like a spring daisy in their skulls and they will question why they ever disliked the story. Am I going to wake up one day and decide that, say, Stephen King's 'Cujo' was well-written? Am I going to suddenly gain an appreciation for 'Alien Versus Predator: Requiem'? Doubtful.
Things like this? This is why you get attacked. It seems like you're trying to irritate people now.
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Steinherz
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Steinherz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:54 pm

Oddball wrote:
You seem a little too confident about Lily's route growing on me. Sometimes people simply don't like certain stories, and this doesn't mean that they're unenlightened and will one day wake up singing and the truth of a story's beauty will blossom like a spring daisy in their skulls and they will question why they ever disliked the story. Am I going to wake up one day and decide that, say, Stephen King's 'Cujo' was well-written? Am I going to suddenly gain an appreciation for 'Alien Versus Predator: Requiem'? Doubtful.
Things like this? This is why you get attacked. It seems like you're trying to irritate people now.
Agreed.
And AVP: Requiem was amazing you uncultured swine.
Last edited by Steinherz on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Jobriq » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:47 pm

I thought this thread was dead... I missed a lot while I was gone ._.
someguy1294 wrote:
Fuckin' Everyone wrote:Comparing Hanako to a child isn't creepy, because Hisao didn't fuck her in this route!
Maybe Hisao is just a pedophile I mean lolicon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA
Fist of the North Star is a strange movie ._.
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Steinherz
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Steinherz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:18 pm

Jobriq wrote:I thought this thread was dead... I missed a lot while I was gone ._.
someguy1294 wrote:
Fuckin' Everyone wrote:Comparing Hanako to a child isn't creepy, because Hisao didn't fuck her in this route!
Maybe Hisao is just a pedophile I mean lolicon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA
Or he enjoys incest :lol:
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
KeiichiO wrote:You shall now, and forever be known as, "Steinherz, The Great".
Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by SpunkySix » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:19 pm

Jobriq wrote:I thought this thread was dead... I missed a lot while I was gone ._.
someguy1294 wrote:
Fuckin' Everyone wrote:Comparing Hanako to a child isn't creepy, because Hisao didn't fuck her in this route!
Maybe Hisao is just a pedophile I mean lolicon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA
I'd like to think not.
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Jobriq
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Jobriq » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:03 pm

Steinherz wrote:
Jobriq wrote:I thought this thread was dead... I missed a lot while I was gone ._.

Maybe Hisao is just a pedophile I mean lolicon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA
Or he enjoys incest :lol:
Or wincest. Like Shizune x Hideaki.
Fist of the North Star is a strange movie ._.
<Xanatos>: "Security is just Mutou walking around punching disobedient students in the head."
<KeiichiO>: "I'd rather look at clop than furry porn."
<CFC Kyle>: "All you do is press the quote button above someones post and WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE quoted."

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by SpunkySix » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:57 pm

What about Emi and her mom? That'd be ridiculous.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Potato » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:50 pm

someguy1294 wrote:Not everyone loves Lily, or her route. Get over it. Suck it up, fanboy.
You seem to believe I have some issue with you disliking the route.

In reality, I have some issue with you grasping at straws (AHHH HE FUCKED HANAKO IN A TOTALLY DISCONNECTED ROUTE AND NOW SHE'S LIKE HIS DAUGHTER, WTF!) or just good ol' nitpicking (the phone thing)...All while apparently lacking the literary ability to comprehend simple comparisons (the china doll thing). Basically, I have an issue with you wanting to be taken seriously...While clearly demonstrating that you really shouldn't be taken seriously.

And no shit the family dynamic in Lilly's route is unhealthy. Never said it wasn't so I didn't exactly miss that.

Well, if you can make a big fuss over the family dynamic in Lilly's route contradicting Hanako's route despite them being entirely separate stories, it stands to reason that I can make a big deal of the festival death in Kenji's route contradicting the lack of death during the festival in all the other routes.

Maybe she turned it off when she left Yamaku. There's no law stating phones must only go off once you reach the airport. And again, Hisao was both despairing and panicking. Logic does not enter that equation. It's not a matter of "It's easy to call.", it's a matter of "Panic makes people overlook simple shit."...So even if he had some way of recovering Akira's number, it's not some massive stretch of imagination that he wouldn't think of that. I mean, have you ever been truly panicked over something? I have, and it has a tendency to override rational thought.

And there's actually a fairly good reason for him not to have Lilly's number: He's with her most of the day, every day. He doesn't ever have need of her number so it's not an unlikely conclusion that he never bothered to get it. And since you're big on logic: Despite literally following him around throughout this entire story, we never see him get the number. So, logically, there is no reason at all to assume he had her number. (Sidenote: As I remember it, he gets calls despite no shown exchange of numbers in Hanako's route. That is a far more blatant defiance of your sacred logical sequence. Go critique that.)

And on the topic of logical sequence...Why is that strictly necessary? Hisao is a human being. Humans are far from flawlessly logical creatures in general. Hisao is also a human being recently uprooted from his known life, saddled with a life-altering medical condition, in despair at the prospect of losing his girl, and now panicking that he's already screwed up too much to fix it. Who would possibly expect logic from someone laboring under all that weight?

Now, of course, none of this will sway you nor is it meant to do so. What it is meant to do is point out that there are many perfectly reasonable and valid interpretations and explanations, and your outright dismissal of it as illogical, suckish and bad despite these valid alternatives is laughably overblown. You choose to interpret it in a way that leads, intentionally or not, to it being suckish. I choose to interpret it based on realistic expectations of the situation which leads to it all lining up pretty well. The difference is I can acknowledge your version despite disagreeing (hence a lot of non-objective language like "maybe", "it's not unlikely...") while you just shut down anything that doesn't already gel with your ideas (fun fact: Nobody's out to convert you here, you can lower those shields) and call us all fanboys. I'm having a discussion. You're having an argument.

Speaking of "suck" though...I'm going to just shake my head in amusement now. You go on about how Lilly's route isn't even your least favorite and we're getting too defensive of it...Yet you just outright go "This route sucks" over a minor nitpick about a cell phone. Really? I feel a deep urge to point you back up to that whole "demonstrating that you really shouldn't be taken seriously" thing.
Last edited by Potato on Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by someguy1294 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:17 am

Steinherz wrote:
Oddball wrote:
You seem a little too confident about Lily's route growing on me. Sometimes people simply don't like certain stories, and this doesn't mean that they're unenlightened and will one day wake up singing and the truth of a story's beauty will blossom like a spring daisy in their skulls and they will question why they ever disliked the story. Am I going to wake up one day and decide that, say, Stephen King's 'Cujo' was well-written? Am I going to suddenly gain an appreciation for 'Alien Versus Predator: Requiem'? Doubtful.
Things like this? This is why you get attacked. It seems like you're trying to irritate people now.
Agreed.
And SVP: Requiem was amazing you uncultured swine.
...AVP: Requiem was a warm pile of shit. Not that has anything to do with anything.

I'm not trying to irritate anyone. Perhaps instead of call me irritating, you should take a moment to examine your own level of irritability, your own lack of tolerance.

The point I'm trying to make (which nearly everyone here seems to be missing) is that people are allowed to not like things. This doesn't mean you should attack that person personally, and it doesn't mean you need to try and convert them.

Chill, people.
My OC, Kuki Kamikogo: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9500

Favorite Katawa Girls, in Order from Best to Worst:
Rin, Hanako, Misha, Miki, Akira, Emi's Mom, Emi, Yuuko, Shizune, Iwanako, Lilly.

Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Steinherz » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:23 am

someguy1294 wrote:I'm not trying to irritate anyone. Perhaps instead of call me irritating, you should take a moment to examine your own level of irritability, your own lack of tolerance.

The point I'm trying to make (which nearly everyone here seems to be missing) is that people are allowed to not like things. This doesn't mean you should attack that person personally, and it doesn't mean you need to try and convert them.

Chill, people.
Yet you're posting comments worded in a way that is condescending and will piss people off.
So yeah.
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I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
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Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by SpunkySix » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:44 am

Steinherz wrote:
Potato wrote:*complete text ownage*
You sir, are amazing.
Yeah, that was something else. Well put.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by someguy1294 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:10 am

Potato wrote:Still more condescending bullshit.
Okay... let's break down why you are, once again, full of it.

First off, your attempts to analyze my motivations in criticizing Lily's route are utterly unfounded. You seriously have no damn clue what you are talking about.

The lack of death in routes besides Kenji's does not contradict anything about his route. At all. No clue what you're even talking about there.

Even when dealing with illogical creatures, a plot must have a logical sequence. There must be a reason for everything a character does, even if the reason is illogical. Pretty basic story-telling concept, and we really shouldn't need a tangent about that.

The cell-phone issue is not nit-picking. It's what the entire climax depends on. Do you somehow not see that?

We don't need a scene showing Hisao getting Lily's number in Hanako's route, because we see him call her. This proves he has her number. Nothing in Lily's route proves he doesn't have her number. Even if he saw her constantly, he would want to have her number to call her A) when curfew patrols prevented him from seeing her, or B) when he didn't know where she was. Calling her is a lot handier than trying to track her down by asking around. Again, NO REASON he wouldn't have her number.

Further... if you are full of nervous energy and have no method to expel it (if you are, say, stuck in a taxi cab) you will seek any method possible to expel that energy. If Hisao's focus is CONTACT LILY, all of his nervous energy would be focused on just that, on every method he could possibly use to contact Lily. Again: this isn't hard for the writers to fix. He calls her, her phone's turned off, he swears and dashes to the taxi.

Also... I assumed your issue was that I was attacking a character you were fond of because your response was a personal attack. I gave you too much credibility, clearly, because I assumed you actually needed a reason to launch a personal attack. Apparently, civility and objectivity during literary discussions is beyond your capability.
Last edited by someguy1294 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
My OC, Kuki Kamikogo: http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9500

Favorite Katawa Girls, in Order from Best to Worst:
Rin, Hanako, Misha, Miki, Akira, Emi's Mom, Emi, Yuuko, Shizune, Iwanako, Lilly.

Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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