Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

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Jobriq
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Jobriq » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Incidentally, if Lilly had been summoned a year earlier, she would've basically had no choice but to go since she'd have been a minor and Akira was going for work related stuff. (Of course Hisao wouldn't have been at Yamaku yet.)

On an unrelated note, Lilly says in one scene that she doesn't see in her dreams (but she uses her other senses). I know that some blind people can see in their dreams, especially people who weren't born blind but became blind later in life due to cataracts or something. Since Lilly can't see in her dreams I think it would suggest that her blindness is caused by a problem of the brain (specifically the visual cortex) rather than a problem with her actual eyes.
Hisao does describe her eyes as cloudy at some point if I remember correctly, so it's probable that Lilly has defects with her retina as well as her visual cortex. Then again, I'm not an optometrist so many this whole paragraph is a load of bullshit.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Atario » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:29 pm

Jobriq wrote:Regardless of what Lilly had planned to do at that point, she really should have told Hisao sooner.
No argument there. As they say, "mistakes were made". It's all part of her central character flaw.
Hearing it from Akira less than a week before the flight, it would only be natural for Hisao to wonder if she planned on telling him at all.
I'm thinking Akira told him specifically because Lilly was letting it go so long — Akira felt bad for the guy.
He shoulda dumped her and went for the late Shizune route lol. He'd just be like "Hey Shizune, your cousin is totally a bitch! We should have sex to consecrate our mutual hated of blondes!"... or he'd write it on paper since he wouldn't know sign language or something...
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Guest Poster wrote:Lilly didn't really know how to handle the situation, so she simply kept putting it off while praying for a miracle of some kind.
Pretty much. Akira had to force her hand.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by dewelar » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:47 pm

Atario wrote:
Jobriq wrote:Hearing it from Akira less than a week before the flight, it would only be natural for Hisao to wonder if she planned on telling him at all.
I'm thinking Akira told him specifically because Lilly was letting it go so long — Akira felt bad for the guy.
There's also some decent evidence that Akira would prefer that Lilly stay in Japan. If Akira herself couldn't talk her into it, then she probably figured Hisao to be the only one who could.
Atario wrote:
Guest Poster wrote:Lilly didn't really know how to handle the situation, so she simply kept putting it off while praying for a miracle of some kind.
Pretty much. Akira had to force her hand.
*nods* One wonders if she had even told Hanako. I tend to think not, because I doubt she would have been able to keep it to herself for any length of time.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Jobriq » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:05 pm

dewelar wrote: *nods* One wonders if she had even told Hanako. I tend to think not, because I doubt she would have been able to keep it to herself for any length of time.
Hanako is like the master of keeping things to herself... but yeah I don't think Lilly told her.... Or maybe she did and that was the reason Hanako was trying to give them space and hanging out with the newspaper club instead?
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She would make Hisao her student council slave and ride him like a donkey down the hallways.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by dewelar » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Jobriq wrote:
dewelar wrote: *nods* One wonders if she had even told Hanako. I tend to think not, because I doubt she would have been able to keep it to herself for any length of time.
Hanako is like the master of keeping things to herself...
Yes, but generally that applies to her own issues. When her friends are the ones hurting each other / themselves, I get the impression she'd be more expressive.
Jobriq wrote: but yeah I don't think Lilly told her.... Or maybe she did and that was the reason Hanako was trying to give them space and hanging out with the newspaper club instead?
Hmmm...as in, giving Lilly space to tell Hisao and have the two of them work it out? Eh, it's remotely plausible, I guess.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Atario » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:46 pm

dewelar wrote:There's also some decent evidence that Akira would prefer that Lilly stay in Japan. If Akira herself couldn't talk her into it, then she probably figured Hisao to be the only one who could.
That would make sense. But I'm interested in seeing the evidence you mentioned, can you point me to it?
*nods* One wonders if she had even told Hanako. I tend to think not, because I doubt she would have been able to keep it to herself for any length of time.
Yeah, seems like a given to me. From Lilly's perspective, the news would be about as devastating to Hanako as it would to Hisao.
Jobriq wrote:She would make Hisao her student council slave and ride him like a donkey down the hallways.
Hah. I'd pay perfectly good money to see that CG.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by dewelar » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:53 pm

Atario wrote:
dewelar wrote:There's also some decent evidence that Akira would prefer that Lilly stay in Japan. If Akira herself couldn't talk her into it, then she probably figured Hisao to be the only one who could.
That would make sense. But I'm interested in seeing the evidence you mentioned, can you point me to it?
Thinking about it, the evidence that I'm considering is probably open to interpretation as well. Akira is not a fan of their parents, and especially not a fan of how they treated both her and Lilly. That much is obvious from "Context", after having been foreshadowed elsewhere. Beyond that, it's more a general feeling, especially the tone of the dialogue in "Correct Procedure".

I also wonder whether Akira knew that Lilly hadn't told Hisao about the summons. From "Context", it's not entirely clear, since Akira says something along the lines of "from the sounds of it, she hasn't told you either." Therefore, it's easy to infer that Akira's intention in meeting with Hisao might have been to get info from Hisao to get her parents off her back rather than simply to inform him of Lilly's decision. Take that a step further, and the purpose of providing "context" becomes to allow Hisao to better help Lilly make her decision rather than just as background for the summons revelation. I think it actually makes more sense that way (which of course doesn't mean it's right).
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Atario » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:12 pm

dewelar wrote:Akira says something along the lines of "from the sounds of it, she hasn't told you either." Therefore, it's easy to infer that Akira's intention in meeting with Hisao might have been to get info from Hisao to get her parents off her back rather than simply to inform him of Lilly's decision.
Hm, interesting, I hadn't thought of that. She does say that…
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by someguy1294 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:12 am

Lily bores me to tears.

There are a handful of moments that moved me (the origami crane, the wheat field, etc), but for the most part, her personality is too filtered and bland to be interesting. There are also quite a few stumbles in the writing of her route; her make-up with Shizune felt rushed and fake. That bit where Hisao compares himself and Lily to Hanako's parents is just creeping. Comparing a girl you fucked in another route to your daughter, Hisao? Ew.

Hisao also compares Lily to a china doll at one point, because nothing's healthier than comparing your loved one to an inanimate object.

The bit where he runs to the airport is contrived and stupid. She had a cell-phone. Why didn't he just fucking CALL her!? Why did he JUST NOW decide that the woman he loved was worth fighting for!? They confessed their love, they fucked all over Akira's summer-house. It's not like he wasn't aware of their feelings.

If, as a writer, you're going to play Lily's connection to her family as the big obstacle between herself and Hisao, spend more time on that. Talk about how she feels about her parents! Context, the only scene in which this comes up, has Akira speaking for Lily, and it's one of the better scenes in the route... the only problem is that Lily wasn't in it, speaking for herself. Lily needs to be torn between Hisao and her connection to her family. THAT creates emotional torque. THAT creates conflict.

I want an Akira route. She's fifty million times more interesting than Lily, and I was heart-broken to see her leave for Scotland. She's strong, snarky, independent, frank, and imbued with just the right amount of bitterness and cynicism.

Lily? I barely cared that she was still in Japan.
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Lilly had a cell-phone. That is all.

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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Steinherz » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:18 am

someguy1294 wrote:*words, words, words, lots of bs*
I want an Akira route. She's fifty million times more interesting than Lily, and I was heart-broken to see her leave for Scotland. She's strong, snarky, independent, frank, and imbued with just the right amount of bitterness and cynicism.
Here you go Thanatos02's Akira Pseudo-Route
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by SpunkySix » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:39 am

someguy1294 wrote:That bit where Hisao compares himself and Lily to Hanako's parents is just creeping. Comparing a girl you fucked in another route to your daughter, Hisao? Ew.

Hisao also compares Lily to a china doll at one point, because nothing's healthier than comparing your loved one to an inanimate object.
That's not really fair. Number one, in that timeline he didn't have sex with Hanako nor did he plan to. The routes take place totally separately from each other. Number two, lots of people compare their loved ones to things that aren't alive, not to say that they feel like they are objects, but to highlight their admirable traits.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Potato » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:46 am

someguy1294 wrote:Comparing a girl you fucked in another route to your daughter, Hisao? Ew.
Any possibility of me taking this post seriously just flew out the window.

Did you just not ever realize that the individual routes are not connected to one another? Really, the fact that you cannot spontaneously abandon one to jump right onto another mid-route should have hinted at this.

And as for the china doll thing...Just...Wow. Legit question: Do you have any form of mental or developmental disorder? If yes, you're excused for this very very very obvious thing going completely over your head. If no, prepare for mocking-but-still-sort-of-serious questions:

Have you ever read a book before? Do you know what a simile is? Did you make any attempt at all to understand what he was actually comparing between the two? Do you know how comparisons work?

He's not calling her an inanimate object. If anything, he's complimenting her. Have you ever seen a well-maintained china doll? Things are damn near flawless. Also unbelievably creepy but I don't think that was his point. :lol:
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by SpunkySix » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:13 am

Lilly has a hidden third eye on her left butt cheek that can stare in to your soul and see your entire past and future, which is sort of creepy, but I agree, that probably isn't what Hisao was referring to.
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Atario » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:12 am

someguy1294 wrote:The bit where he runs to the airport is contrived and stupid. She had a cell-phone. Why didn't he just fucking CALL her!?
It has been theorized that she'd already shut off service and gotten rid of it in preparation to leave Japan.
If, as a writer, you're going to play Lily's connection to her family as the big obstacle between herself and Hisao, spend more time on that.
That's not what the obstacle was. It was Lilly's aversion to asserting her own wants and needs if they're in opposition to her loved ones' (see also: yamato nadeshiko). And, by extension, Hisao's reflection of this same tendency. Both keep it bottled up, and sadness and loss ensues (or nearly does, depending on your ending).
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Re: Lilly's Route (SPOILERS)

Post by Guest Poster » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:34 am

That's not what the obstacle was. It was Lilly's aversion to asserting her own wants and needs if they're in opposition to her loved ones' (see also: yamato nadeshiko). And, by extension, Hisao's reflection of this same tendency. Both keep it bottled up, and sadness and loss ensues (or nearly does, depending on your ending).
That's correct. Lilly's route is in several ways a deconstruction of a Yamato Nadeshiko (or traditional Japanese Wife), just like Hanako's route is a deconstruction of the fragile orphaned kitten type and Rin is a bit of a deconstruction of the space cadet type.

Lilly acts very much like a traditional Japanese wife, no doubt due to her upbringing and education, in several ways. She's calm, friendly, graceful, motherly and a good cook. (despite her blindness) However, this same touch of Japaneseness that makes her so appealing at first glance also extends into her keeping her problems bottled up rather than sharing them with others and a strong deference to authority figures inside the group (her parents in this case) even when it goes against her own vision of happiness. (which are also facets of Japanese culture) Lilly didn't really have a strong connection to her parents anymore, but they were still her parents and traditional Japanese outlook on parental authority is quite different from the western one.
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