The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:42 pm

That sucks dude, then Hanako would think you did it because you felt horrible over what happened.

I loathe to think of what might follow. Let's go back to how Lilly would help them make up and then it would be all hugs and kisses afterwards. And some nice dates. Possibly some hotel lovemaking. Like in Sisterhood. :P

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Lianam » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:35 am

pandaphil wrote:Lots of good points there Doc.

I guess it all boils down to whether or not she'd be too embarrassed after her outburst to face Hisao again. And whether Hisao really wants to salvage their friendship or if he just gives up in despair, figuring she'd never want to speak to him again.

That'd be the real tragedy, if they each wanted to make amends, but were both too timid to step forward first.
I think what would happen would depend on Hanako would feel after the fact. The way I see it, there's two possibilities:
1. Hanako would feel so guilt ridden that she could've face either Lilly or Hisao ever again and wouldn't unless of course it were against her free will. (She wouldn't be able to face Lilly since, IIRC, Hanako said she hated Lilly too in her outburst and she'd assume Hisao'd tell Lilly that she said that. And if Hanako didn't really mean it and it was just rage fuel nonsense, she'd still wouldn't be able to face Lilly because Hanako'd believe that Lilly believes that Hanako hate her, or at the very least would be mad at her.)
or 2. Hanako actually does hate them because they treat her like a porcelain doll when all she wants is someone to treat her like a human being, or not to notice her at all.

Actually, no there's one other possibility, the impression I got when I first saw the bad ending: She kills herself.
Yeah... but this does seem very possible. Think about it: imagine if after growing up being tormented into believeing that your nothing but a burden or hinderance or blight upon people, the only people you love, the only people who treated you as a friend, the non-blood family you have after your blood family died in a fire, the only thing that gave you a reason to actually exist, was alienated and destoryed by you own doing. By yelling at Hisao, Hanako might see that the bullies were right; she can only hurt people, and considering that she is perhaps one of the most compassionate people imaginable; to her, the only way to avoid hurting others, the only thing she feels she's capable of doing, would be to prevent herself from having the ability to do so- to kill herself.
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:15 am

^All that, is why we say, the bad ending never happens, or they make amends. Hanako is much too precious to leave us. It's sort of like how the saying goes about the apples on the tree and how the guys go for the easy girls cause they're afraid of being hurt. Or the guys don't have the right attitude to begin with and would only hurt Hanako. When Hisao comes along, he really cares about Hanako, and she wouldn't want to lose that so easily. Some small voice in her would push her to keep the two true friends she made. I believe that the bad end is not her true self, that it's just two bad things coming together at the worst possible time. And here's why. Because Hanako, despite saying she doesn't like people, still communicates with those who approach her gently. If she had been both severely shy and cold, Hisao's first meeting with her would be way different. But it's not like that. She freaks out and runs away one time, then after that, she speaks to him. Sure, she keeps her distance at first, but if that's her way of trying to push someone away, then all one needs to do is keep approaching her again, a little at a time. Chess is what helped bring Hisao together with her sooner, do you think if she really didn't like people at all, she'd have invited Hisao to play one of her favorite games only 6 days after meeting him? These things add up in my head. Hanako is a beautiful person with a wonderful heart. She's not a cold, distant person. She's just very cautious. And while we're at it, she's beautiful physically as well. A serious injury doesn't change that, and were I in Hisao's shoes, I'd be sure to let her know. Master of Romance, ha. One of the first thoughts in Hisao's mind was that she has really beautiful hair, a pretty name, and a nice body. He should have vocalized some of that during their first conversation in the library. Probably right after she says her name. He could have been like, "That's a pretty name. And I think you have very pretty eyes, and hair." BAM. Master of Romance time. It would get a blush from her, as well as probably being the first time in her life that she's ever been hit on. That's another reason why I like the dialogue option that gives no point for her. They end up talking more, and he goes on with "So, do you come here often?" She blushes after that. Hisao takes the initiative there and assumes she thinks he's trying to hit on her. "I didn't mean it like that!" and then she gives her first "I'vegottogodosomething!"

Yeah, I like that. Tactless maybe, as Yuuko says, but that's the choice I made first and therefore the one cemented in my heart. Hanako is lovely. Her scars wouldn't stop me in the least, in fact they'd do the opposite, and push me forward more quickly.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by pandaphil » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:52 am

Reminds me of an early version of my fic, where it was Yuuko who helped mend their relationship.

Never understood why she and Hanako weren't friends. After all, Yuuko is about as non-threatening as they come. She also knows what its like to be nervous around people. And hell, Hanako's in the library all the time too.

Some good observations everyone! Though I'm sure Guest Poster will pop in any time now to tell us we're all completely wrong. ;)
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Guest Poster » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:21 am

You called? ;)
After all, Yuuko is about as non-threatening as they come.
It's kind of funny that you say that, because Hanako was definitely feeling threatened by Yuuko during her route. Of course, for different reasons...

As for why they aren't close friends...I think Hanako is slightly more familiar with Yuuko than she is with most people, so if she had the choice whether to hang out with Yuuko or with a complete stranger, she'd pick the former choice any time of the day. But a Hanako-Yuuko friendship would probably be a pretty unstable dynamic, due to both Yuuko and Hanako have somewhat of an unstable mood. Basically, Yuuko's nervousness might rub off on Hanako and Hanako's nervousness might rub off on Yuuko and the two might be on edge constantly because of that. I could see why Hanako would choose to hang out with a person whose mood is stable and whose presence is soothing and calming, like Lilly, over someone whose mood is bouncing all over the place.
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:34 am

^Yeah, Hanako was so afraid that Yuuko would steal her man. :lol:

My theory since years ago is, girls who don't talk much are thinking. You want to know what they think so much about. It only adds to her mystery and appeal. Girls who talk too much, well, unless they're cool with everyone like Misha, don't have as much appeal for me. The way I see it, Misha and Hanako are two opposites who I could both like, but I find Hanako's type a bit more attractive. Maybe she wouldn't mind passing notes. That's a much less "threatening" way to communicate.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Xanatos » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:22 pm

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:The sense I get, doing my best to compare this to real similar situations, is that friendships like this don't just immediately dissolve just because of one grave incident.
You may be very surprised at how often they do just that. Things go wrong, people get pissed off or dejected and even when they want to, nobody dares make a move to fix things.

It would certainly take a lot of work from all three involved to mend things...And even then, Hanako would just think they're faking the effort out of pity. Failing basically a miracle, I only see suicide or lonely bitterness in Hanako's future post-bad end. Or at the very best, a strained, awkward tension between the three anytime they saw each other afterward.
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:45 pm

Ok, now I'm going to fall back on my theory of crying like a little kid and begging for mercy from Hanako. In secular terms, it would be offering/handing her my Manhood card. Here, Hanako, take it! Just don't be mad at me!!! :(

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by pandaphil » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:01 am

We can alwasy count of Guest Poster to come in and cut through the BS with logic and good sense. :)

But yeah, her and Hisao gettign together would be a small miracle. Lilly otoh I think would have a good chance to reunite with her. Hanako said she hated Lilly, but not that she never wanted to see her again. Its likely that since Lilly wasn't there to witness her outburst, Hanako would be less embarassed about speaking to her again. And the two girls know each other well enough and that I think Hanako would be willing to accept Lilly's apology.

I think Hanako's smart enough too to realize she was being unfair to Lilly, since she wasn't there to defend herself.

Thats one of things about people with low self-confidence. She has so little assertiveness that she won't speak up when somethign annoys her. So it builds up over time until she just can't take it anymore. then all those dozens of frustrations and annoyances erupt out at once at whoever the percieved target is.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:31 am

But surely, my good sense tells me, Hanako has mercy and after the anger subsided, she'd be open to a sincere apology. If Hisao pursues it, that is. Assuming he does, I can't see Hanako resisting a statement like, "Look Hanako, I realize I really messed up back then. I know you didn't really mean some of those things you said, and I'm sorry. I'd like to be friends again." Surely, it would still strike a chord in her somewhere, the part that loved him. That's what my reasoning tells me. Cause Guest Poster isn't the only one that understands her. :wink: I've talked to lots of kinds of people over the years, and really, the only kinds of people not open to forgiveness are the bitchy ones not open to trust in the first place. And Hanako isn't like that.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:51 am

I've talked to lots of kinds of people over the years, and really, the only kinds of people not open to forgiveness are the bitchy ones not open to trust in the first place. And Hanako isn't like that.
Well, "not open to trust in the first place" is a pretty good way to describe Hanako and her thoughts on friendship. In fact, when you get to the final scene in Hanako's route, you'll learn that that has been the overriding theme in her feelings about her friendships. Up to that point, she didn't really trust Lilly and Hisao to begin with. And in the bad end, that doesn't get fixed either. I'm not saying that there's no hope for the friendship to get fixed up, but it wouldn't be very easy.
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by pandaphil » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:09 am

Guest Poster wrote:
I've talked to lots of kinds of people over the years, and really, the only kinds of people not open to forgiveness are the bitchy ones not open to trust in the first place. And Hanako isn't like that.
Well, "not open to trust in the first place" is a pretty good way to describe Hanako and her thoughts on friendship. In fact, when you get to the final scene in Hanako's route, you'll learn that that has been the overriding theme in her feelings about her friendships. Up to that point, she didn't really trust Lilly and Hisao to begin with. And in the bad end, that doesn't get fixed either. I'm not saying that there's no hope for the friendship to get fixed up, but it wouldn't be very easy.
Agreed. It would take a minor miracle for Hanako to learn to trust him again. I still think Lilly's friendship can be salvaged though.

I imagine it would take a writer of amazing skill and insight to figure out how she and Hisao could mend things. So ever considered writing another Hanako story GP? ;)
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:14 am

I'm just happy we got such a long discussion going. It's like no matter what the topic is about, I find a way to make it about Hanako somehow. :mrgreen:

And besides... not trusting Lilly very much doesn't mix very well with Hanako saying "I love her very much." It would seem that the latter is true whether Hisao screws up or not.

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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:44 am

And besides... not trusting Lilly very much doesn't mix very well with Hanako saying "I love her very much." It would seem that the latter is true whether Hisao screws up or not.
If Hisao screws up, you never make it to the point where she says she loves Lilly very much. The two aren't completely mutually exclusive. Hanako loves Lilly and would like to have a friendship with her that's more on equal terms, rather than the mother-daughter relationship they seem to share at points. At the same time, she believes that Lilly has no interest in a more equal relationship with her and looks down on her. (an impression that's wrong, but nevertheless reinforced by Lilly's nurturing behavior) There are times when Hanako manages to tell herself that Lilly genuinely cares about her as a person, but she has to make a concious effort to believe that and whenever she's in a downer mood, her latent misantropic tendencies tend to come back to the foreground.
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Re: The wrong reaction to a grave mistake.

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:58 am

Well, right as the good ending has come, Hanako says "I wanted to give you this for a long time, but now that I have to, it's embarrassing." To me that says she's wanted an equal relationship as friends since meeting Hisao. So, if he screws up on that, that's his bad, but not all would be lost. This could all just be my optimistic faith in people showing, but I think it wouldn't be impossible to fix things up between them.

I'm coming up with all these points off the top of my head, I guess I should read again to remember some more. :wink:

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