Preconceptions about the routes

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Xanatos
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:20 pm

simmr001 wrote:
Guest Poster wrote:
About the only thing that really surprised me was Lilly being Shizune's cousin - I still don't understand the reason for that.
Maybe it wasn't about Lilly and Shizune being cousins, but Akira and Hideaki being cousins...a saving throw against Akira straying into the squicky shotacon territory.

Or it might be to justify their hostile relationship better. Lilly's usually the type to avoid conflicts rather than engage them head-on, yet when Shizune baits her she never ever backs down. Since they're blood-related, they feel they can't avoid letting the other get the upper hand...it's like having a spat with a sibling.
It also means they can't just walk away
Yeah. I mean, Shizune's family no matter what. Not like Lilly can just turn a blind eye to her...

*goes back to the corner*

Really though, they could walk away. They're not direct relations or anything. They don't share a surname. They don't have to be connected. And I think their backstory mainly serves to reinforce Shizune's conflict in her route. Her incessant confrontational manner and competitions drove the two apart.
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<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Mirage_GSM » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:04 pm

Xanatos wrote:She only has one bad ending. And there's an entire scene that might as well just be Sae saying "I knew this art guy who locked himself up alone in that very same room, worked himself to exhaustion and madness, and eventually killed himself. ...Say, that sounds exactly like Rin. I'M SURE THAT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE THOUGH! *wink wink, NUDGE NUDGE*"
Depends on whom you ask. Officially she has two bad endings.
Anyway, I guess you're either talking about when Sae talks about her husband or about that stuff about Picasso's blue period.
In the first, Sae never explicitly says that her husband committed suicide - only that "his flame was bright but brief" and that "he died young." While suicide is definitely a possibility, my thoughts went more in the direction of drug abuse or something similar...
Also Sae explicitly states that she doesn't think Rin is like her husband.
If you meant the other thing... Well, I guess you probably didn't, so nevermind.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
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Xanatos
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:
Xanatos wrote:She only has one bad ending. And there's an entire scene that might as well just be Sae saying "I knew this art guy who locked himself up alone in that very same room, worked himself to exhaustion and madness, and eventually killed himself. ...Say, that sounds exactly like Rin. I'M SURE THAT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE THOUGH! *wink wink, NUDGE NUDGE*"
Depends on whom you ask. Officially she has two bad endings.
Anyway, I guess you're either talking about when Sae talks about her husband or about that stuff about Picasso's blue period.
In the first, Sae never explicitly says that her husband committed suicide - only that "his flame was bright but brief" and that "he died young." While suicide is definitely a possibility, my thoughts went more in the direction of drug abuse or something similar...
Also Sae explicitly states that she doesn't think Rin is like her husband.
If you meant the other thing... Well, I guess you probably didn't, so nevermind.
Is drug abuse to the point of death not suicide? You are the one bringing about your own end. And she also states Rin is like him in ways. What's seen up in that room supports the idea. She's on her way to starving herself by the looks of things at one point. If she locks out the only person she ever let in (Hisao, and she does this in the bad end), she's not likely to last long under her own pressure.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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ZXNova
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by ZXNova » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:14 pm

Well it's a bad ending for a reason. None of us want the bad ending, we all want the good ending. Cause good is good.
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By order of favorites: Rin > Lilly > Hanako > Shizune > Emi

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Mirage_GSM » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:28 pm

Is drug abuse to the point of death not suicide?
Not if dieing was not the purpose of the drug abuse.

You can also see it another way: Without Hisao's encouragement she might not have agreed to the exhibition in the first place.
No exhibition, no pressure, no reason at all to do anything drastic.
My personal opinion is that Rin is not the type to suicide in any case, but nobody but Aura can say for sure.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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Liminaut
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Liminaut » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:31 am

Mirage_GSM wrote: Anyway, I guess you're either talking about when Sae talks about her husband or about that stuff about Picasso's blue period.
In the first, Sae never explicitly says that her husband committed suicide - only that "his flame was bright but brief" and that "he died young."
In point of fact, Nomiya says flat-out that Sae's husband killed himself.

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:49 am

Ups, so he does, sorry.
I was searching for "suicide" and "killed himself" so "taking his own life" fell through the cracks^^°
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

Loonie
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Loonie » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:14 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:I was searching for "suicide" and "killed himself" so "taking his own life" fell through the cracks^^°
Yap, recently had that one meself. :roll: It happens.

I've been thinking less on my preconceptions of the routes as in: 'What I expected would happen and what plot twists would occur.' but far moreso in the sense of: 'Do I feel like this route will dissapoint me or delight me in the end?' It's hard to remember what my expectations were based on this question from way back a year ago - it's far easier to remember what you thought of something in the beginning rather than how you felt about it (at least for myself the newer emotions quickly replace the out-of-date ones whereas I can remember the thoughts of the 'old me' much more easily)

So if I may hijack this thread a little - forget all the plot-related stuff: How good or bad were your first impressions of each girl in each route? (think moreso in terms of how you felt about the characters as 'real people' rather than what you thought would happen in this fictional setting)

-I remember I really liked Emi from the start so I suppose that'd be few surprises at the end.

-Shizune I didn't like that much at all in the beginning. Felt she was wayyy too bossy with the whole Student Council thing, but after seeing all the hard work she and Misha put in and having Hisao become a part of that she really won me over by the end so yeah - I was really surprised by how my feelings towards her changed by the end of her route.

-Hanako's route made me ambivalent I think. I guess I was just halfway preparing myself to be dissapointed by the end missing the point of such a character...and being pleasantly surprised to see the exact opposite of that.

-Lilly's route I honestly...can't remember what I expected of it initially. Lilly's demeanor being so diplomatic and cards held close to chest I think contributed to this heavily and by the end there was little to really attract me. So I suppose no big surprises either emotionally.

-Funnily enough, I'd say that whereas plot-wise Rin's path surprised me a lot, emotionally it didn't at all. Right when I got to the scene before her Act 2 started, I already knew that I'd like her route the most. So while she surprised me a lot plot-wise, emotionally there were no surprises at all.

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simmr001
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by simmr001 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Wanted to punch shizune, shake misha until she stopped the wahahahing, felt out off breathtalking to win, conflicted by Lilly (she's so nice, what's she hiding.... she's blind, I'm an asshole) guilty for screwing up Hanako's first scene (I tried to be nice! I didn't know about the batsmasyndrome.) And somewhere between amused and oddly Zen-like from rin

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ZXNova
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by ZXNova » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:01 pm

simmr001 wrote: And somewhere between amused and oddly Zen-like from rin
I think that description works for anyone who went through Rin's route. That and/or confused.
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By order of favorites: Rin > Lilly > Hanako > Shizune > Emi

Ritter Delorges
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Ritter Delorges » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:04 pm

I think my minimal exposure to VNs before playing KS meant that I had only vague expectations. After the introduction of all the girls in Act 1 my interest in the routes actually matched my eventual enjoyment of the routes pretty well for the most part. I guess that means that the characterization was successful. However there was one big exception: Emi, my first route. At first I expected something pleasant but not all that exciting. Then she ended up being my clear favorite.

While I see the reasons for that in her characterization, it didn't hurt that her route was my first and I had the least expectations about format or the setting. I had no clear idea how long it would be, how many choices or settings or characters there would be. I just went with the flow, answering all questions honestly without any 'tactical' considerations and enjoyed maximal immersion.

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Xanatos
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:39 pm

Loonie wrote:How good or bad were your first impressions of each girl in each route?
Shizune was a bitch. Emi was too damn hyperactive. Rin was pretty cool despite much weirdness.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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simmr001
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by simmr001 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:26 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Loonie wrote:How good or bad were your first impressions of each girl in each route?
Shizune was a bitch. Emi was too damn hyperactive. Rin was pretty cool despite much weirdness.
I'd be fine with emi if it it wasn't the fact that...

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ZXNova
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by ZXNova » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:59 am

I thought Misha was annoying, Shizune was aggressively annoying, Lilly was a sweetheart, Hanako was a hurt little puppy, and Rin was... very interesting, and Emi was a typical girl (I thought she'd be pretty boring.)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Touhou guy here.
You cannot deny the cuteness of my avatar. If you try to deny it, your subconscious shall be devoured.
All of my yes.
By order of favorites: Rin > Lilly > Hanako > Shizune > Emi

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