Preconceptions about the routes

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Mahorfeus
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Mahorfeus » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:02 pm

By the end of the Shizune route, I had wondered why they bothered to include her family at all. It kind of goes hand in hand with the Lilly thing. I had figured that those relationships would all play into her conflict somehow, but in the end, it took a completely different direction.
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Atario
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Atario » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:04 pm

I glad to say I came to the game by word of mouth, of the more cryptic "came for the fapping, stayed for the feels" variety, so there was little to nothing in the way of spoilers. On the downside, it means I came to the game after its one year anniversary had already passed. :(

However, I'm not beyond preconceptions, given that just about all of my prior experience in the visual novel genre was from the hentai side. From that perspective, what surprised me was:
  • Major female character in peer group with no route (Misha).
  • The more realistic and nuanced portrayals of...well, just about everything, really.
  • Kenji is more fun the more you get to know him. At first I rolled my eyes in loathing at his every appearance. Now I feel like he's an endless source of entertainment.
  • Even though I was warned there would be emotional impacts, they crushed me utterly.
  • The value lost by not having voices to associate with each heroine was less than I imagined it would be.
  • The value gained by the terrific application of music within each route was much greater than I imagined possible.
  • Being nice to everyone results in death quite easily. Did not see that coming.
  • The lack of any real resolution on Shizune's good ending.
  • My own inability to get as much of a connection with Rin as with the others. Of course, trouble making a connection is the whole theme of her route, so...mission accomplished, I guess?
  • Being haunted by the thought of Emi, after her bad ending, going the rest of her life in nothing but a series of love-'em-and-leave-'em relationships that last less than a year apiece and dying old and alone.
  • The emotional resonance of Hanako's routes, despite no real "relationship's going well, everything's good" time at all.
  • How much I hated Hisao for not speaking up on Lilly's route. I was actually telling my screen, out loud, that he was an idiot and was going to lose her. Plus the subversion of the "race to the airport" scene.
NB: none of the above is a request

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Xanatos
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Atario wrote:I glad to say I came to the game by word of mouth, of the more cryptic "came for the fapping, stayed for the feels" variety, so there was little to nothing in the way of spoilers. On the downside, it means I came to the game after its one year anniversary had already passed. :(

However, I'm not beyond preconceptions, given that just about all of my prior experience in the visual novel genre was from the hentai side. From that perspective, what surprised me was:
  • Major female character in peer group with no route (Misha).
  • The more realistic and nuanced portrayals of...well, just about everything, really.
  • Kenji is more fun the more you get to know him. At first I rolled my eyes in loathing at his every appearance. Now I feel like he's an endless source of entertainment.
  • Even though I was warned there would be emotional impacts, they crushed me utterly.
  • The value lost by not having voices to associate with each heroine was less than I imagined it would be.
  • The value gained by the terrific application of music within each route was much greater than I imagined possible.
  • Being nice to everyone results in death quite easily. Did not see that coming.
  • The lack of any real resolution on Shizune's good ending.
  • My own inability to get as much of a connection with Rin as with the others. Of course, trouble making a connection is the whole theme of her route, so...mission accomplished, I guess?
  • Being haunted by the thought of Emi, after her bad ending, going the rest of her life in nothing but a series of love-'em-and-leave-'em relationships that last less than a year apiece and dying old and alone.
  • The emotional resonance of Hanako's routes, despite no real "relationship's going well, everything's good" time at all.
  • How much I hated Hisao for not speaking up on Lilly's route. I was actually telling my screen, out loud, that he was an idiot and was going to lose her. Plus the subversion of the "race to the airport" scene.
People keep mentioning a lack of resolution in Shizune's route...I guess they just skip over the part where they all resolve to get over the petty depressing bullshit and better themselves.

And it's not so much being nice to everyone as being indecisive. :lol:

I actually have voices for everyone except Shizune. All in my head, of course, but it helped. Somehow Shizune being mute prevented me figuring a voice for her...
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Atario
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Atario » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:26 pm

Xanatos wrote:People keep mentioning a lack of resolution in Shizune's route...I guess they just skip over the part where they all resolve to get over the petty depressing bullshit and better themselves.
I meant more from a relationship point of view. It's just kinda "hey, maybe see ya around, bye".
Xanatos wrote:And it's not so much being nice to everyone as being indecisive. :lol:
No, really. You have to deliberately say or do something against someone in order to get into a route (barring that you actually like running or making art, for example).
NB: none of the above is a request

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YZQ
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by YZQ » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:30 pm

Shizune is more concerned about sorting out the destructive side of her competitive nature. Romance can wait.

Hanako's route dont have this "against other people" part.
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:38 pm

Atario wrote:
Xanatos wrote:People keep mentioning a lack of resolution in Shizune's route...I guess they just skip over the part where they all resolve to get over the petty depressing bullshit and better themselves.
I meant more from a relationship point of view. It's just kinda "hey, maybe see ya around, bye".
Xanatos wrote:And it's not so much being nice to everyone as being indecisive. :lol:
No, really. You have to deliberately say or do something against someone in order to get into a route (barring that you actually like running or making art, for example).
Each route largely demands ignoring the other girls. Kenji's route demands sitting on the fence, balancing out every choice against a character with another choice for them, remaining utterly neutral and dying as a result. :lol:
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by ZXNova » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:35 am

That's the thing about KS, some routes don't directly go into romance, but rather, it hints at a romance that may bloom in the future. Like Hanako, her good ending, it's just a recently formed romance that became evident at the very end. Rin's arc is a weird one, obviously. From my perspective, there was a romantic relationship formed, but it was just... weird. Not easily understood. Remember the part where Rin tried to kiss Hisao a 2nd time during her arc? In her head there must have been a romantic relationship, but Hisao is left so confused by this at this point he isn't even sure. Which is why he denied her the kiss. At the very end (good ending), from the events that took place prior to the end, and how Rin comes to a resolve that Art isn't the best way of communicating, they must be or are beginning to have a (real) romantic relationship bloom. This time Rin might communicate correctly, or something. Emi's, Shizune's, and Lilly's are obviously romantic relationships. Lilly's especially.
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Sea » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:14 am

ZXNova wrote:That's the thing about KS, some routes don't directly go into romance, but rather, it hints at a romance that may bloom in the future. Like Hanako, her good ending, it's just a recently formed romance that became evident at the very end. Rin's arc is a weird one, obviously. From my perspective, there was a romantic relationship formed, but it was just... weird. Not easily understood. Remember the part where Rin tried to kiss Hisao a 2nd time during her arc? In her head there must have been a romantic relationship, but Hisao is left so confused by this at this point he isn't even sure. Which is why he denied her the kiss. At the very end (good ending), from the events that took place prior to the end, and how Rin comes to a resolve that Art isn't the best way of communicating, they must be or are beginning to have a (real) romantic relationship bloom. This time Rin might communicate correctly, or something. Emi's, Shizune's, and Lilly's are obviously romantic relationships. Lilly's especially.
I think that's why alot of us are sucked into KS so much. It's not 15 minutes of build up to some porn, hell in most routes when it does happen it's not at all the climax (pun not intended) and is just a means to an end. You get so deep into the character of each girl that you form these emotional bonds that you just want more of. When I first went through Hanako's route I was really hoping when she got drunk it wasn't going to end up in a "We're drunk! Let's get naked" kind of thing because the payoff wouldn't be there. I think Emi's route is probably where (Not only is there the most sex) the smutty bits are the high point, but it isn't about those moments, it just works with them.
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Mirage_GSM » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:39 am

I still maintain that Rin suicides post-bad end. It wouldn't be so heavily implied otherwise.
It is? I must have missed that part... Which bad ending are you talking about?
Kenji's route demands sitting on the fence, balancing out every choice against a character with another choice for them, remaining utterly neutral and dying as a result.
Kenji's route has nothing to do with indecision. You get on his route if you are rude (Shizune) or dishonest (Lilly/Hanako) or if you don't show interest (Rin).
If you try to balance Shizune and Lilly's choices, you'll close off their routes but barring other mistakes, you'll still end up with Emi or Rin.

Regarding preconceptions, I tried not to have any prior to reading the VN.
About the only thing that really surprised me was Lilly being Shizune's cousin - I still don't understand the reason for that.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by simmr001 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:35 pm

Sea wrote:
ZXNova wrote:That's the thing about KS, some routes don't directly go into romance, but rather, it hints at a romance that may bloom in the future. Like Hanako, her good ending, it's just a recently formed romance that became evident at the very end. Rin's arc is a weird one, obviously. From my perspective, there was a romantic relationship formed, but it was just... weird. Not easily understood. Remember the part where Rin tried to kiss Hisao a 2nd time during her arc? In her head there must have been a romantic relationship, but Hisao is left so confused by this at this point he isn't even sure. Which is why he denied her the kiss. At the very end (good ending), from the events that took place prior to the end, and how Rin comes to a resolve that Art isn't the best way of communicating, they must be or are beginning to have a (real) romantic relationship bloom. This time Rin might communicate correctly, or something. Emi's, Shizune's, and Lilly's are obviously romantic relationships. Lilly's especially.
I think that's why alot of us are sucked into KS so much. It's not 15 minutes of build up to some porn, hell in most routes when it does happen it's not at all the climax (pun not intended) and is just a means to an end. You get so deep into the character of each girl that you form these emotional bonds that you just want more of. When I first went through Hanako's route I was really hoping when she got drunk it wasn't going to end up in a "We're drunk! Let's get naked" kind of thing because the payoff wouldn't be there. I think Emi's route is probably where (Not only is there the most sex) the smutty bits are the high point, but it isn't about those moments, it just works with them.
I was honestly expecting him to pass out on her floor with the door open. In the morning he sees lilly or the sister (akiza?) Has closed it to save them the embarrassment of being caught. Then hisao sneaks out before hanako wakes up.

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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by ZXNova » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:41 pm

Balancing out the girls would lead you Rin. (Either balancing them by showing no interest in them, or balanced interest) And you get Kenji when you show no interest to none of them, or plain mess up your chances with all of them. And I actually didn't think Hisao would fall off the roof. I thought he would have a heart attack, or Kenji would do something dangerous. Like throw a bomb into the festival or some crazy crap like that. And you'd be apart of the phenomenon. Maybe get arrested or something, or you become a 2nd Kenji. This is one of the few VNs I've actually shown interest in, cause it isn't all about the H-Scenes and doesn't have an unrealistic dialogue or something that's plain stupid. (Also, her name is Akira)
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By order of favorites: Rin > Lilly > Hanako > Shizune > Emi

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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Sea » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:25 pm

simmr001 wrote:
Sea wrote:
ZXNova wrote:That's the thing about KS, some routes don't directly go into romance, but rather, it hints at a romance that may bloom in the future. Like Hanako, her good ending, it's just a recently formed romance that became evident at the very end. Rin's arc is a weird one, obviously. From my perspective, there was a romantic relationship formed, but it was just... weird. Not easily understood. Remember the part where Rin tried to kiss Hisao a 2nd time during her arc? In her head there must have been a romantic relationship, but Hisao is left so confused by this at this point he isn't even sure. Which is why he denied her the kiss. At the very end (good ending), from the events that took place prior to the end, and how Rin comes to a resolve that Art isn't the best way of communicating, they must be or are beginning to have a (real) romantic relationship bloom. This time Rin might communicate correctly, or something. Emi's, Shizune's, and Lilly's are obviously romantic relationships. Lilly's especially.
I think that's why alot of us are sucked into KS so much. It's not 15 minutes of build up to some porn, hell in most routes when it does happen it's not at all the climax (pun not intended) and is just a means to an end. You get so deep into the character of each girl that you form these emotional bonds that you just want more of. When I first went through Hanako's route I was really hoping when she got drunk it wasn't going to end up in a "We're drunk! Let's get naked" kind of thing because the payoff wouldn't be there. I think Emi's route is probably where (Not only is there the most sex) the smutty bits are the high point, but it isn't about those moments, it just works with them.
I was honestly expecting him to pass out on her floor with the door open. In the morning he sees lilly or the sister (akiza?) Has closed it to save them the embarrassment of being caught. Then hisao sneaks out before hanako wakes up.
I was kinda looking forward to a scene of them both waking up next to each other and just kinda laying there in the awkwardness until someone finally said something and what happened in the about about happened then, but I like 4LS's version better.
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Xanatos » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:44 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:
I still maintain that Rin suicides post-bad end. It wouldn't be so heavily implied otherwise.
It is? I must have missed that part... Which bad ending are you talking about?
She only has one bad ending. And there's an entire scene that might as well just be Sae saying "I knew this art guy who locked himself up alone in that very same room, worked himself to exhaustion and madness, and eventually killed himself. ...Say, that sounds exactly like Rin. I'M SURE THAT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE THOUGH! *wink wink, NUDGE NUDGE*"
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by Guest Poster » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:07 pm

About the only thing that really surprised me was Lilly being Shizune's cousin - I still don't understand the reason for that.
Maybe it wasn't about Lilly and Shizune being cousins, but Akira and Hideaki being cousins...a saving throw against Akira straying into the squicky shotacon territory.

Or it might be to justify their hostile relationship better. Lilly's usually the type to avoid conflicts rather than engage them head-on, yet when Shizune baits her she never ever backs down. Since they're blood-related, they feel they can't avoid letting the other get the upper hand...it's like having a spat with a sibling.
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Re: Preconceptions about the routes

Post by simmr001 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:11 pm

Guest Poster wrote:
About the only thing that really surprised me was Lilly being Shizune's cousin - I still don't understand the reason for that.
Maybe it wasn't about Lilly and Shizune being cousins, but Akira and Hideaki being cousins...a saving throw against Akira straying into the squicky shotacon territory.

Or it might be to justify their hostile relationship better. Lilly's usually the type to avoid conflicts rather than engage them head-on, yet when Shizune baits her she never ever backs down. Since they're blood-related, they feel they can't avoid letting the other get the upper hand...it's like having a spat with a sibling.
It also means they can't just walk away

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