The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

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MegaMoto
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The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:30 pm

So recently (and by recently I mean 5 minutes ago) me and a friend who also read KS got into an argument about what the meaning behind the story was. When we started to discus the meaning we agreed with what we were saying to each other. We both agreed that KS meaning was that It's they (disabled people) aren't to be pitied, that they aren't weak, or broken, or needing help. We both agreed to this. However I added that I thought that part of the theme was that disabled people aren't different from non-disabled people. He insisted that they were different and I told him he was only looking at things from the surface. Right now he isn't talking to me but I was wondering what you guy's thing. Who do you agree with and if you don't agree with anyone what are your thoughts ?

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Xanatos
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Xanatos » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:33 pm

Disabled people are different from non-disabled people. That's just a fact.

As for "he was only looking at things from the surface"...And? A surface difference is still a difference. Add on the deeper issues created by the disability in some cases or even just the ways they must adapt to fit the world around them and that's more difference. You've got the meaning more or less correct though.
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Markus Ramikin
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Markus Ramikin » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:36 pm

Have you heard him out as to what he meant by it, when he said they were different? That can mean a lot of things. Unless you know specifically where he was coming from, it's impossible to say whether he's just "looking at the surface" or has an actual point.
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MegaMoto
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:41 pm

Markus Ramikin wrote:Have you heard him out as to what he meant by it, when he said they were different? That can mean a lot of things. Unless you know specifically where he was coming from, it's impossible to say whether he's just "looking at the surface" or has an actual point.
This is a quote from my friend describing why they are different.
"They are handicapped
There's no point in pretending they aren't
That's as bad as pitying them"
I don't know, just the way he said make me not agree. All the people we meet in KS can function perfectly fine and can handle themselves. That doesn't sound handicapped to me.My point is made when he later said.
"They're just less physically able"

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Oddball
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Oddball » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:46 pm

People are people. Disabled people are different, sure. So are people from different countries, different ethnic groups, different religions, different hair colors, and any other thing you can think of. Identical twins aren't the same as each other. You could look at your friend and pick out reasons he's different from you if you wanted. That doesn't mean you're not both just people.

I was going to say "normal people" but what's "normal" mean anyway?
"They are handicapped
There's no point in pretending they aren't
That's as bad as pitying them"
And? So Emi has to put on her legs in the morning instead of just putting on her shoes and socks. Does that make her really different from anybody else?
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Xanatos
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Xanatos » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:48 pm

MegaMoto wrote:All the people we meet in KS can function perfectly fine and can handle themselves.
Yes, the runner who literally runs from all problems and cannot commit to a partner handles herself fine? The trauma case who goes into paralyzing panic attacks just from mention of her birthday functions perfectly fine? The girls whose ears and eyes don't function, one of whom has a severe interpersonal barrier as a result?

Your friend is right. Going to lengths to act as if it's not there is as much patronizing bullshit as constantly going out of your way to help them as if they're broken.


@Oddball: ...Not in any way that matters, but yes. Add in the trauma she's loaded with as well as the resulting interpersonal issues and then it becomes significant. To claim no difference in the girls is either patronizing or delusional.
Last edited by Xanatos on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
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<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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MegaMoto
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:54 pm

Xanatos wrote:
MegaMoto wrote:All the people we meet in KS can function perfectly fine and can handle themselves.
Yes, the runner who literally runs from all problems and cannot commit to a partner handles herself fine? The trauma case who goes into paralyzing panic attacks just from mention of her birthday functions perfectly fine? The girls whose ears and eyes don't function, one of whom has a severe interpersonal barrier as a result?

Your friend is right. Going to lengths to act as if it's not there is as much patronizing bullshit as constantly going out of your way to help them as if they're broken.


@Oddball: ...Not in any way that matters, but yes. Add in the trauma she's loaded with and then it becomes significant. To claim no difference in the girls is either delusional or ignoring what's shown.
Besides Lilly's problem those were emotional problems. Non-disabled people have those and other kinds of problems to.

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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Steinherz » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:54 pm

MegaMoto wrote:
Markus Ramikin wrote:Have you heard him out as to what he meant by it, when he said they were different? That can mean a lot of things. Unless you know specifically where he was coming from, it's impossible to say whether he's just "looking at the surface" or has an actual point.
This is a quote from my friend describing why they are different.
"They are handicapped
There's no point in pretending they aren't
That's as bad as pitying them"
I don't know, just the way he said make me not agree. All the people we meet in KS can function perfectly fine and can handle themselves. That doesn't sound handicapped to me.My point is made when he later said.
"They're just less physically able"
Show your friend this.
It sums up the whole meaning of the VN :lol:
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
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MegaMoto
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:58 pm

Steinherz wrote:
MegaMoto wrote:
Markus Ramikin wrote:Have you heard him out as to what he meant by it, when he said they were different? That can mean a lot of things. Unless you know specifically where he was coming from, it's impossible to say whether he's just "looking at the surface" or has an actual point.
This is a quote from my friend describing why they are different.
"They are handicapped
There's no point in pretending they aren't
That's as bad as pitying them"
I don't know, just the way he said make me not agree. All the people we meet in KS can function perfectly fine and can handle themselves. That doesn't sound handicapped to me.My point is made when he later said.
"They're just less physically able"
Show your friend this.
It sums up the whole meaning of the VN :lol:
Thanks that really helps. I saw the picture before but hadn't thought about it til now.

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Xanatos
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Xanatos » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:58 pm

MegaMoto wrote:Besides Lilly's problem those were emotional problems. Non-disabled people have those and other kinds of problems to.
Emotional problems directly caused by and inextricably linked to their physical disabilities. :roll: To say nothing of the nerve damage Hanako likely has or Emi's phantom pains...

And being deaf isn't an emotional problem. It's a physical problem that creates a communication barrier for anyone too impatient to learn sign or write notes (most people nowadays, going by mere observation).

There are many differences, some significant, some not. Just claiming there are none is foolish and lying to yourself. But whatever the differences and their severity, they are still human. And that is the meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Everyone is different, in small and big ways, but everyone is still a person.
Last edited by Xanatos on Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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MegaMoto
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:02 pm

Xanatos wrote:
MegaMoto wrote:Besides Lilly's problem those were emotional problems. Non-disabled people have those and other kinds of problems to.
Emotional problems directly caused by and inextricably linked to their physical disabilities. :roll: To say nothing of the nerve damage Hanako likely has or Emi's phantom pains...

And being deaf isn't an emotional problem. It's a physical problem that creates a communication barrier for anyone too impatient to learn sign or write notes (most people).
Forgot Shizune sorry. You make a good point but Non-disabled peoples emotional problems also have sources maybe not as tragic (I don't think that word works here because the level of tragicness to any situation is subjective but it's all I got) but sources all the same.

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yummines
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by yummines » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:09 pm

"Less physically able" is just politically correct BS. The fact is, they are disabled because they were dealt a shit hand in life. You can't deny your past.

The whole point of Katawa Shoujo is that they overcome their disabilities, to show that no matter your situation humans are still humans. They still can love, and be loved. Everyone has their day to day struggle, ups and downs, times you wish you were somewhere else... You can't just ignore a problem and hope it just goes away. The fact that the girls do what they do even with their disabilities, such as Rin painting and Emi running, is a testament to their human nature.

In a nutshell, it's just to explain that all people are different, but in the end they're still people. So don't treat anyone like they are more or less of a person.

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MegaMoto
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by MegaMoto » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:12 pm

yummines wrote:"Less physically able" is just politically correct BS. The fact is, they are disabled because they were dealt a shit hand in life. You can't deny your past.

The whole point of Katawa Shoujo is that they overcome their disabilities, to show that no matter your situation humans are still humans. They still can love, and be loved. Everyone has their day to day struggle, ups and downs, times you wish you were somewhere else... You can't just ignore a problem and hope it just goes away. The fact that the girls do what they do even with their disabilities, such as Rin painting and Emi running, is a testament to their human nature.

In a nutshell, it's just to explain that all people are different, but in the end they're still people. So don't treat anyone like they are more or less of a person.
Yes I agree with you. I think this is to sides of the same coin. On one side you have everyone is different, the other you have no one is.

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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Loonie » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:21 pm

It can mean a number of things. The fact that the official page has the 5 main questions tied to the 5 paths should tell you that much at least.

But, and to quote my favourite path, for me it ultimately meant: "It's alright to be me." And I find that goes well enough with the overall theme of disability in KS too.

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Markus Ramikin
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Re: The meaning of Katawa Shoujo.

Post by Markus Ramikin » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:32 pm

Yeah. Xanatos' thoughts are also my own.
Lilly=Emi=Hanako>Rin >>... ...

My stories are: here.

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