Oh Lilly... what's wrong with me?

[pandaphil]

That does seem to be his biggest problem. He's afraid to open up and talk about himself. Honestly, how many time sin the game does he give some vague answer or change the subject when asked about his problem?


It makes me think that Yamaku needs some sort of student orientation to at least give new arrivals some idea of the world they're getting into. Though come to think of it, maybe that was Shizune's job and she just wasn't very good at it.

[Xanatos]

That does seem to be his biggest problem. He's afraid to open up and talk about himself. Honestly, how many time sin the game does he give some vague answer or change the subject when asked about his problem?


It makes me think that Yamaku needs some sort of student orientation to at least give new arrivals some idea of the world they're getting into. Though come to think of it, maybe that was Shizune's job and she just wasn't very good at it.

An orientation sounds like a bad idea and not just because I spent Tuesday on a 3.5-hour one for community college and had a miniature breakdown in my seat. The guy's already all kinds of depressed, mopey, and irritating over his life irrevocably changing. An orientation seems like it would only reinforce that sense of difference.

[pandaphil]

An orientation sounds like a bad idea and not just because I spent Tuesday on a 3.5-hour one for community college and had a miniature breakdown in my seat. The guy's already all kinds of depressed, mopey, and irritating over his life irrevocably changing. An orientation seems like it would only reinforce that sense of difference.

Maybe, but there needed to be a better way of introducing him to the school instead of just dropping him off blind at the front gate.

[Xanatos]

An orientation sounds like a bad idea and not just because I spent Tuesday on a 3.5-hour one for community college and had a miniature breakdown in my seat. The guy's already all kinds of depressed, mopey, and irritating over his life irrevocably changing. An orientation seems like it would only reinforce that sense of difference.

Maybe, but there needed to be a better way of introducing him to the school instead of just dropping him off blind at the front gate.

Well, there's not much need. It's not like there's a whole lot of difference to the school itself from a standard one. And comfort with one's disability (or others) isn't exactly something that can be hammered in with an orientation. Some things are just better left to experience, I think.

[Guest Poster]

I kind of agree. Though there's probably psychiatric help available for the students with traumas, it's ultimately up to the students to develop a sense of acceptance of their condition. That said, Mutou, the nurse and even Yuuko go out of their way to instill that in Hisao. He's just a little slow in making it stick.

[Atario]

Ok, having read through the whole thread, I think there's something important about Lilly no one seems to be pointing out.

The faction saying she did something heartless by receiving the summons, then confirming a relationship with Hisao, are demanding that she act flawlessly. She's just as confused in life as anyone else, and there is no indication in the story that she had decided to accept her parents' demands till after that point.

She clearly felt strongly about Hisao at the moment she got summoned (back, while she was still there...what a weird demand on her parents' part, by the way). So she comes back to Japan, is shocked by almost permanently losing Hisao to death itself, remembers how passive she had been with her tutor before, finds herself unable to resist breaking down and confessing, dives into the relationship whole-hog, then only later succumbs to her own obedience to authority and decides — possibly only tentatively — to accept the summons. She fools herself, thinking they'll be able to sustain a long-distance relationship. Possibly she harbors some expectation that when he does find out, he'll object strenuously. But… he doesn't. Not even a little. Well then, guess he isn't torn up about it after all, so… I'll be a good little girl and do as I'm told anyway, and he'll be just fine either way. Hell, I remember my own urge to scream at Hisao through that whole part: Tell her to stay, you idiot! She's leaving! Don't you get it?? Say SOMETHING! ARRGHHH!

Ahem.

At any rate, we have some people saying she's a perfect Mary Sue, and others saying she didn't act perfectly enough not to be considered a heartless selfish bitch. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

(Also, the initial poster might have a bit of a block against Lilly, since she decides to do to Hisao what his own former girlfriend did to him — leave him for a different life in a faraway land.)

[MegaMoto]

WORDS WORDS WORDS a good point WORDS WORDS WORDS

To ask someone to be perfect is stupid I agree however Lilly I'm saying Lilly SHOULD have done these things. I can understand to a degree why she did the things she did but on the other hand they are still pretty bad things.

[Atario]

I'm saying Lilly SHOULD have done these things. I can understand to a degree why she did the things she did but on the other hand they are still pretty bad things.

Well, ok. I'm not sure what the point is then — everyone SHOULD have done something different. If everyone always did everything they should, there'd be no conflict and no story. E.g.: Emi knows she won't let Hisao get close and will break it off the moment it gets too difficult, but goes ahead anyway.

[MegaMoto]

I'm saying Lilly SHOULD have done these things. I can understand to a degree why she did the things she did but on the other hand they are still pretty bad things.

Well, ok. I'm not sure what the point is then — everyone SHOULD have done something different. If everyone always did everything they should, there'd be no conflict and no story. E.g.: Emi knows she won't let Hisao get close and will break it off the moment it gets too difficult, but goes ahead anyway.

But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

[Atario]

But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

Yeah, I saw that. However, this is moving the goal posts. You said you can understand why Lilly did the things she did, but the problem is that they're really really bad things. Emi's actions are arguably worse, but now it's "she had a good reason". Which is the more important? The reasons or the actions?

To my mind, it doesn't matter anyway. Everyone is a product of his past. Emi's past (familial death) leads her to the destructive things she does, and Lilly's past (familial absence) leads her to the destructive things she does. Either one of them could theoretically have used powers of reasoning to counter her deep-seated flaws and spared Hisao the pain. But people aren't perfectly reasonable.

[MegaMoto]

But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

Yeah, I saw that. However, this is moving the goal posts. You said you can understand why Lilly did the things she did, but the problem is that they're really really bad things. Emi's actions are arguably worse, but now it's "she had a good reason". Which is the more important? The reasons or the actions?

To my mind, it doesn't matter anyway. Everyone is a product of his past. Emi's past (familial death) leads her to the destructive things she does, and Lilly's past (familial absence) leads her to the destructive things she does. Either one of them could theoretically have used powers of reasoning to counter her deep-seated flaws and spared Hisao the pain. But people aren't perfectly reasonable.

I said I could understand to a degree. Lilly went a little to far. And yea I will argue that Emi didn't do a worse thing. CONTEXT is key here.

[Oddball]

I said I could understand to a degree. Lilly went a little to far. And yea I will argue that Emi didn't do a worse thing. CONTEXT is key here.

Lilly broke things off gently because she had to go away.
Emi bluntly broke things off because one day at some undefined point in the future, Hisao might die. Probably.

I'm not seeing why you should give Emi a pass and not Lilly.

[Xanatos]

But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

"I have a stupid irrational phobia of loss." is still not a good reason. =\

[Firewind]

I think that you can't really choose when, where and with whom you fall in love. It just happens. Even if Lilly knew she had to leave, she couldn't help herself from developing those feelings.

I remember my own urge to scream at Hisao through that whole part: Tell her to stay, you idiot! She's leaving! Don't you get it?? Say SOMETHING! ARRGHHH!

Also this. Seeing as Hisao was pretty annoying for me in those moments, I guess it just made Lilly think that he wasn't THAT much in love with her, so he made it easier for her to leave.

[MegaMoto]

But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

"I have a stupid irrational phobia of loss." is still not a good reason. =\

It's better reason then Lilly had. Did she even have a reason beyond it was a hard decision? Okay that might be unfair. All this really is is
1. preference
2. Context
Emi's reasoning made more sense to me but that might be that it's a little close to home (if you know what I mean ). I've never been put in a similar situation to what Lilly or Hisao went through in that path.