If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

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FoxtrotZero
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by FoxtrotZero » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:51 am

Xanatos wrote:
FoxtrotZero wrote:I'm literally incapable of imagining that scenario
But you aren't. You're imagining it now as you read about it and you imagined it when/if you played Hanako's route.
I know you're trying to troll me, but I'm going to take the bait. Normally when people start a sentance with "can you imagine" the first words out of my mouth are "yes, I can". But that's mostly because when people tend to use that phrase, they use it in an exaggerated fashion.

This gentleman has been through things to which my experiences hardly compare. I can attempt to understand, imagine, and sympathize with his scenario. But I've never had to be in a scenario quite like his - the fire, the aftermath thereof, or the things he had to endure as he carried on with his life. I daresay he's experienced entire emotions that are absolutely unknown to me.

So when I say "I can't imagine that", you're right, that's not entirely true. But my imagination will never grant me a proper understanding, and it will never compare to the actual experience. Perhaps what I mean to say is that "I am incapable of truly understanding that".
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Xanatos
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Xanatos » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:57 am

FoxtrotZero wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
FoxtrotZero wrote:I'm literally incapable of imagining that scenario
But you aren't. You're imagining it now as you read about it and you imagined it when/if you played Hanako's route.
I know you're trying to troll me
Go learn what "troll" means. We already had a guy around here who never used it right. :P
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<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by FoxtrotZero » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:03 am

Selim Bradley wrote:
FoxtrotZero wrote: Shit, son. That's rough. Which I know doesn't do your situation justice at all, but I don't know if anything I could come up with to say would really capture just how terrible of an experience that is, particularly without sounding lame and detached. And I can absolutely understand you not wanting to discuss that, but I have to assume that if you seriously didn't want to talk about it, some internet-stranger's curiousity wouldn't be worth a damn.

But I'll say the same thing about you that I say about Hanako. Most people don't have to go through anything that difficult. My past is rough compared to the average person and I lay it down as fact that it doesn't hold a candle to yours (pun seriously fucking not intended, but I can't come up with a better turn of phrase). The fact that you're still here, an emotionally functional individual, says volumes about your character and your ability to perservere (even though, in Hanako's case, that perserverence came at the expense of just about any social contact whatsoever).

We're all stronger individuals for the trials we've faced. I suppose you could say you've literally been through the fire (pun intended this time, and it's terrible of me but I'm a strong believer in being able to joke about our pasts, so I hope you're okay with it). And if I knew you in person, I'm sure you'd have the presence of personality that would make me want to get to know you better. It's just a shame that some people in our world decide to base their opinions of people on petty bullshit.

But I doubt you need a pep-talk from me. I'm sure you get this sort of untrue sympathy a lot (untrue in the sense that I'm literally incapable of imagining that scenario). And I'm honestly just trying to come up with a way to end this post that doesn't seem... wrong. For being adept at the english language, I can be terribly clumsy once I start rambling.
Oh, I'm as shy as she is too. The only big difference between her and me is gender.I only do electronic stuff like this because my therapist thought it would help, since nobody can see what I look like and judge me. And they said I should perhaps try bringing this situation up because with KS, you guys are the closest to understanding, or at least sympathizing. They were right. Thank you for the kind words, but don't burden yourself on my account.
I have a habit of taking other people's burdens on my shoulders. It's partially related to my self mental image as being nigh-indestructable on all fronts. It's a pretty defining point of my personality, from how I interact with people to how I would vote (if I were of age). Don't think you're getting special treatment, you're just more deserving of it.

And hey, if you hadn't said anything about it, none of us would know, so there is that. And you're right. Even the ever-abusive Xanatos is more understanding than your average person, because a VN like Katawa Shoujo forces you to be understanding if you're going to play it. (It's actually my first VN, and as I consider moving on to others, as much as we try to not define the characters by their disabilities, playing one with nondisabled characters seem wrong because it lacks that aspect of seeing past it and interacting with characters who have unique challenges in their lives. Does that make sense? That I feel a VN should have something so I can look past it to a more detailed character? Does this make me a bad person? I don't know).

I got off track in that last paragraph, but I wish you lived near me, because you certainly seem like someone I'd like to get to know. Just like Hanako, I think the real prize is the person you are inside, and it's a shame that sometimes it takes extreme circumstances to realize that about people.
Xanatos wrote: Go learn what "troll" means. We already had a guy around here who never used it right. :P
Oh, hush, you. I use the term loosely to mean an antagonistic manner. Which you're doing right now. And every time you touch a keyboard in general.
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by YZQ » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:16 am

@Selim: We're here with beers in our hands, having a chat. Time's up, we go back to our lives. Having said that, cheers and may the days bring you joy.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Xanatos » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:20 am

FoxtrotZero wrote:Oh, hush, you. I use the term loosely to mean an antagonistic manner. Which you're doing right now. And every time you touch a keyboard in general.
Even granting your "loose" use of the term, you're using it wrong unless you also apply a very loose definition of "antagonistic" (like 'noticing something wrong and casually pointing it out', which seems to be your usage here) in which case everyone is trolling most of their time and specifically mentioning my doing so becomes redundant.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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FoxtrotZero
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by FoxtrotZero » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:40 am

Xanatos wrote:
FoxtrotZero wrote:Oh, hush, you. I use the term loosely to mean an antagonistic manner. Which you're doing right now. And every time you touch a keyboard in general.
Even granting your "loose" use of the term, you're using it wrong unless you also apply a very loose definition of "antagonistic" (like 'noticing something wrong and casually pointing it out', which seems to be your usage here) in which case everyone is trolling most of their time and specifically mentioning my doing so becomes redundant.
Then perhaps, in an attempt to point out that you're "antagonizing" me, I was actually antagonizing you? Oh, the grand irony. Perhaps we should let this train of thought die before it starts making sense again.
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Tsu
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Tsu » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:40 am

Xanatos wrote:
Tsu wrote:I'm disappointed that you would participate in something like this, given my initial impression of you all.
"Boo hoo, people joke about things!"

Cry me a river. -_- And "shemale" isn't "transphobic". It's a fusion of words denoting the sexes, appropriately applied to denote...Both sexes.
Yes, that would be why almost every single trans person in existence considers it a transphobic slur, and I've never seen anyone other than a transphobe use it, or more than two trans people out of the thousands I have heard from on the topic use it for anyone.
Please, though, laud me with your cisgendered expertise of nothing whatsoever a little more, and explain; if I'm the horrible mean person spoiling your harmless jokes, describe to me why this is funny.


See, the entire thing that's supposed to be amusing about your joke, as far as I can tell, relies on your own assumption that trans women are disgusting, deceptive and undesirable.
In much the same way that if someone glued a rusty nail to your seat as a prank, that wouldn't exempt your arse from a puncture wound and tetanus, calling it a joke when you point to a stereotype, whip out a slur and yell about how dem trannies sure are disgusting doesn't exempt what you're saying from transphobia.

Now, were you to explain why it's funny and take that premise to anyone trans, I'd be proven right.
As it is, I don't particularly care for continuing giving a crushingly basic trans 101 to a man who thinks his being cis makes him the grand high wizard of defining how trans people should feel about things, so I take my leave and won't be around to see it.
Good day.

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by KeiichiO » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:Oh, I'm as shy as she is too. The only big difference between her and me is gender.I only do electronic stuff like this because my therapist thought it would help, since nobody can see what I look like and judge me. And they said I should perhaps try bringing this situation up because with KS, you guys are the closest to understanding, or at least sympathizing. They were right. Thank you for the kind words, but don't burden yourself on my account.
You're gonna make me cry bro T-T

Just so you know, if I knew you in real life, I'd never judge you for the way you look. I'd probably want to be best buds with you. (Not just because you share a similar story with a character I admire, but because I like being friendly towards people).

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Dream » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:44 pm

For what it's worth, Tsu, i really can understand why you felt so offended at the callous remarks in here, and i wish i could do something to make the majority in here understand why it's wrong to say these kind of things. They're not bad people, they just don't really grasp the gravity or consequences of their actions sometimes. I wish you someday manage to enter these forums again and be able to enjoy them, although i can certainly see why you wouldn't want to see this place again.
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"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Xanatos » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:53 pm

Tsu wrote:I'm the horrible mean person spoiling your harmless jokes
You're not spoiling the jokes. You're just being whiny about the jokes while vomiting the word 'transphobic' all over the place despite nobody here expressing any transphobic tendencies. And while it's your right to do all of that, it's my right to view it as being overly sensitive and delusional. And stupid.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Xanatos » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:54 pm

KeiichiO wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:Oh, I'm as shy as she is too. The only big difference between her and me is gender.I only do electronic stuff like this because my therapist thought it would help, since nobody can see what I look like and judge me. And they said I should perhaps try bringing this situation up because with KS, you guys are the closest to understanding, or at least sympathizing. They were right. Thank you for the kind words, but don't burden yourself on my account.
You're gonna make me cry bro T-T

Just so you know, if I knew you in real life, I'd never judge you for the way you look. I'd probably want to be best buds with you. (Not just because you share a similar story with a character I admire, but because I like being friendly towards people).
Selim would be a total bro. :lol:
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Dream
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Dream » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:59 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Tsu wrote:I'm the horrible mean person spoiling your harmless jokes
You're not spoiling the jokes. You're just being whiny about the jokes while vomiting the word 'transphobic' all over the place despite nobody here expressing any transphobic tendencies. And while it's your right to do all of that, it's my right to view it as being overly sensitive and delusional. And stupid.
The thing is that, as i understand it, things are seriously terrible for transgender people in the recent times, so while it isn't really "right" to ask someone to alter their speech because of a personal condition (like being offended at the use of transphobic) i believe this is a special case. Also i wouldn't be so sure of how innocent the jokes in here were, even if no one really held any hostile intent towards tsu.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by Xanatos » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:09 pm

Dream wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
Tsu wrote:I'm the horrible mean person spoiling your harmless jokes
You're not spoiling the jokes. You're just being whiny about the jokes while vomiting the word 'transphobic' all over the place despite nobody here expressing any transphobic tendencies. And while it's your right to do all of that, it's my right to view it as being overly sensitive and delusional. And stupid.
The thing is that, as i understand it, things are seriously terrible for transgender people in the recent times, so while it isn't really "right" to ask someone to alter their speech because of a personal condition (like being offended at the use of transphobic) i believe this is a special case. Also i wouldn't be so sure of how innocent the jokes in here were, even if no one really held any hostile intent towards tsu.
If there's no hostile intent, it can't be anything but innocent. And taking into account that they were plainly just jokes with no malicious or transphobic intent (contrary to his whiny victim card bullshit about how we're all disrespecting and slurring people), it might help his case if he'd tried a more rational approach before jumping immediately to "annoyingly upset and defensive over absolutely nothing" too.
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<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by CreedKeeper25 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:15 pm

Damn. I go away from this thread for less than a day and I've missed so much. :shock:
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Re: If you witnessed someone bullying Hanako...

Post by pandaphil » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:17 pm

I really wish everyone would stop arguing. We need to get back to dealing with that asshole who's bothering Hanako.
"The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things. But vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant." ~ The Doctor.

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