What arc should i try next?

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Powermad80
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Powermad80 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:49 am

First playthrough, went unplanned. I didn't realize that you could just press space bar to advance the text, so I clicked the screen to do so. On 2 occasions while clicking to advance in the story I accidentally pressed a dialogue option without even knowing it was coming, I had no idea what I had just done in the story. I didn't know it would affect the story so much, so I just went with it. Later I found myself trying my best to gain points with Lilly, it felt right, I loved every Lilly scene the game gave me in act 1.

Then I realized I was put in the beginning scene of Rin's arc. Confused, I checked the game flowchart. Yep, with those 2 dialogue boxes I accidentally got a point with Shizune despite having no interest, and missed 2 point opportunities for Lilly/Hanako. I didn't feel this was right, so I restarted the game and, in the process of mashing space bar through the parts I already did (for an hour), corrected the 2 dialogue options for what I'd really say (I admit, in the first attempt I opted to try to introduce myself to Hanako in the Library scene, but I changed it to apologizing for startling her. Introducing myself was completely out of my character, plus it gave me another point towards Lilly/Hanako who I'm heavily biased towards at this point)

So I finally I get to Lilly's arc. The feels were everywhere, and I made damn well sure I got the good ending. Such emotion, I actually fall in love with Lilly throughout the story. I still am.
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Lilly, every night I sleep hoping I'll dream of her; every morning I wake up hoping today will be the day I find her.

Lilly: True Love
Emi: Fitness Trainer
Hanako: Billiards partner
Rin: Philosophy Major
Shizune: Starcraft II Teammate

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Xanatos
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Xanatos » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:37 am

Powermad80 wrote:in the process of mashing space bar through the parts I already did
In the interest of saving your space bar from death, I must inform you that the majority of visual novels offer a "skip mode" in the options to auto-run through previously-seen scenes.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Shadowyeclipse
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Shadowyeclipse » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:06 am

Xanatos wrote:
Shadowyeclipse wrote:Save the best route for last, always.


Emi's route is the most common one for first routes, and playing her route really does help you prevent getting the bad end in Hanako's route, don't be a filthy white-knight because what Emi addresses at some point in her route, I personally believe, if it was planned or coincidental, is an integral part to Hanako's route. You can't just swoop in and save someone and make everything all better by yourself.
So Shizune should be last. Got it. :mrgreen:

And Emi's route didn't help me with Hanako's at all. :lol:
In a way, Emi and Hanako have a similar problem with white-knighting, although with Emi, Hisao does it pretty much regardless of your choices, except for the one at her house. In Hanako's route, your decisions are pretty much "Are you or are you not a colossal white knight" and if you are, you get yelled at by the most gentle girl in the game.

Unrelated, it's kind of funny to see all the white knights start crying because they thought coddling Hanako was going to help her.
Emibro, [Hanabro],[Lilly Lover], Rin Kin, Feminist, Two-timer

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Currently: None.
To do list: Clannad, Chaos;Head, Steins;Gate
Finished: Toradora, Katawa Shoujo, Analogue: A hate story, Narcissu.

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Xanatos
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Xanatos » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:51 am

Shadowyeclipse wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
Shadowyeclipse wrote:Save the best route for last, always.


Emi's route is the most common one for first routes, and playing her route really does help you prevent getting the bad end in Hanako's route, don't be a filthy white-knight because what Emi addresses at some point in her route, I personally believe, if it was planned or coincidental, is an integral part to Hanako's route. You can't just swoop in and save someone and make everything all better by yourself.
So Shizune should be last. Got it. :mrgreen:

And Emi's route didn't help me with Hanako's at all. :lol:
In a way, Emi and Hanako have a similar problem with white-knighting, although with Emi, Hisao does it pretty much regardless of your choices, except for the one at her house. In Hanako's route, your decisions are pretty much "Are you or are you not a colossal white knight" and if you are, you get yelled at by the most gentle girl in the game.

Unrelated, it's kind of funny to see all the white knights start crying because they thought coddling Hanako was going to help her.
Actually, you get yelled at for being a perfectly reasonable human being and thinking a dangerously depressed individual might not be in a proper state to look after their own best interest. :lol:
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Guest Poster » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:37 am

I wouldn't exactly call Hisao's actions in Hanako's bad end being a perfectly reasonable human being...he was reasonable to worry about Hanako. Even checking up on her was reasonable enough under the current conditions. However, the "not in the right state to look after her own best interests"-attitude became so obvious in Hisao's words he came off as downright denigrating. Hanako felt like Hisao was treating her like a child because that was exactly what he was doing.

In the end, as Cpl_Crud once put it, both Hisao and Hanako were at fault. Hisao got so much into his role as protector that he ended up talking down to Hanako, making Hanako feel even worse about herself. While he was somewhat right to worry, Hanako's been who she is for the better part of a decade...if she was the type to commit suicide on a whim, she probably would have done it long ago when her life sucked even more than it did at Yamaku. But Hanako's behavior WOULD make most people worry and she did very little to reassure her friends that she'd be okay. So in the end the fault lies somewhat with both of them.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

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Dream
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Re: My experience with Katawa Shouju

Post by Dream » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:32 am

^ That helps drive home the point that, in many aspects, KS is a pretty fucking dark Visual Novel.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Dream
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Dream » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:37 am

Yeah, going to her room and feeling like she might not be in the right frame of mind were pretty reasonable things, but Hisao being such an unintentional douche about it (while refusing to leave her room) Pretty much caused me to lose any sympathy for him in that ending, or at least i wasn't surprised when Hanako did what she did. Hisao was being indeed very patronizing. But like Guest Poster points out Hanako did a lot to set the tone that gets people worried, so she is not completely innocent herself.

And if i may ask, where did Cpl_Crud said that, in the "Ask" thread? I would like seeing the comment myself since it sounds pretty interesting.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Guest Poster » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:30 am

No, it was in this thread.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

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Oddball
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Oddball » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:53 pm

Yeah, going to her room and feeling like she might not be in the right frame of mind were pretty reasonable things, but Hisao being such an unintentional douche about it (while refusing to leave her room) Pretty much caused me to lose any sympathy for him in that ending,
From Hisao's point of view, it makes perfect sense.

Hanako isn't acting normal. It's not her "normal" way of not acting normal either, there seems to be something seriously wrong with her. Everybody tells her that it's just something Hanako does... lock herself in a room for a couple of days, starving herself, acting like a robot... most people seem to have given up on her. Hisao knows first hand what it's like to be in the worst possible state and have everybody turn their backs. He doesn't want to leave anyone that way. There might also be a bit of ego involved, as he's just told Lilly that he knows better than she does. He tries to be nice and reasonable, but she continuously shoots him down in a way that only reinforces that she needs help. Like he told her earlier in the route, "When you say 'it's nothing' like that it means 'something'," As she becomes more blunt with her rejections, he can only match it by being more obvious with his attempts.

Keep in mind, if you get the bad ending, it's also because you skipped having them go to town together. That's where Hisao really first gets the impression that she might be stronger than she looks and that there's more to her than what he's been shown, and she's shown that Hisao really isn't just doing this out of pity. He wants to spend time with her and went through a lot of effort in order to pick out a present for her. Even his attempt to change the conversation and ask her if she's going to learn how to drive suggests that he thinks she can actually accomplish things by herself out in the real world.

I think a lot of the bad ending is just as much Hanako's fault as anything. She doesn't want people to worry about her, so she keeps them in the dark a bit too much, and that only causes them to worry more. The time for her to tell Hisao she doesn't want to do anything on her birthday wasn't when he came to her room, it was a few days before. If she had came out and said, "Look, this is a bad time of year for me. I'm going to need a couple days to myself, but I'll be fine. Please don't come bother me," then Hisao probably would have been a lot more understanding.
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Xanatos
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Re: My experience with Katawa Shouju

Post by Xanatos » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:49 pm

Dream wrote:^ That helps drive home the point that, in many aspects, KS is a pretty fucking dark Visual Novel.
The default ending has Hisao dying. :lol: I have never seen a VN that dark before myself.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Dream
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by Dream » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:12 pm

That's very insightful.

And yeah, a great deal of Hisao's bluntness/thick-headedness in the bad ending can be attributed to him believing things were in a very tense or high-stakes situation. I'm sure that, in the deep of his mind, he imagined what he was doing was probably not very nice, but he was too worried about what might happen and thought Hanako might end up getting harmed if he left her be. Plus the matter of ego, projection and the lack of character development that Oddball pointed out.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Dream
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Re: My experience with Katawa Shouju

Post by Dream » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:15 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Dream wrote:^ That helps drive home the point that, in many aspects, KS is a pretty fucking dark Visual Novel.
The default ending has Hisao dying. :lol: I have never seen a VN that dark before myself.
... Default? :lol:

But yeah, that ending is a really dark part of the VN, and very much unlike the others in the sense that the Kenji ending is way more overt and explicit in it's grim qualities. The other parts are more subtly or nuanced in that.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"

"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos

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Xanatos
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Re: My experience with Katawa Shouju

Post by Xanatos » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:25 pm

Dream wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
Dream wrote:^ That helps drive home the point that, in many aspects, KS is a pretty fucking dark Visual Novel.
The default ending has Hisao dying. :lol: I have never seen a VN that dark before myself.
... Default? :lol:

But yeah, that ending is a really dark part of the VN, and very much unlike the others in the sense that the Kenji ending is way more overt and explicit in it's grim qualities. The other parts are more subtly or nuanced in that.
It's what I call the "you didn't do anything right so we can't branch off into a story" ending that VNs have. :lol: Worst default I'd seen before KS was "you got fired". XD
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

timbrepanic
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by timbrepanic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:08 pm

The first time I saw Lilly in that tea room I knew I wanted to see more of her. Love at first sight to a fictional character.

And so I ended up with Emi as my first path. I couldn't resist pushing Hisao to his physical limits.I tried again to catch a glimpse of Lilly's elusive path and I stumbled upon Rin's. Hers filled me with empathy and exhaustion. Somewhere in between the two paths I found Kenji's. It was hilariously absurd and I thought it was a fitting intermission from all the emotional highs and lows so far.

After that I decided to pursue Hanako, then Shizune and Lilly's as the finale. I couldn't try and fail getting Lilly's path again after the previous playthroughs. Hanako's definitely what I anticipated (more pain and sadness judging by her outward demeanour) and had the most difficulty(not what I expected) in achieving a good ending. When Hanako yelled at Hisao in her room, that was definitely an eye opener for me. I would have never understood her if I hadn't gotten that scene. She's not the most talkative except maybe when they played pool together.

Shizune's path was a pleasant treat. Its story felt the most grounded to reality. It had a lot of humor thanks to Misha, Hideaki and Jigoro and didn't make me feel like a love sick puppy the entire time. I liked that it was more centered towards friendship albeit it has some complications (Misha/Shizune/Hisao triangle) and seeing an old photo of the Misha/Shizune/Lilly trio was insightful back story. Shizune's personality is definitely my favourite.

A few reasons on why I like Lilly's path: Tea, Akira, Music Box, Honesty, Kenji's theory of her ties to the Mafia, Romance in Andante.

To me it's fitting to make it through the end with the character you wanted the most. Make the best for last indeed. Lilly's was the best for me.

user_friendly
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Re: Dissussion about the order in which you play the routes.

Post by user_friendly » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:39 am

Just finished my first route - Emi (as I guess is the norm). This route just happened. In the beginning, I was interested in Hanako. I was about to start it just now, but after reading this thread it seems her path is much more emotional then Emi's.
Anyway, I based my choices on what I would do if I had "more guts", after Shizune beat Hisao at the board game. Also, I chose to run with Emi just because the nurse said Hisao should exercise more :)
So, great story! Great game. I can't wait to pick up another route.

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