What arc should i try next?

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Carighan
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Carighan » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:47 am

Personally I'd do Lilly last, and Shizune or Rin first, their bad endings. For closure respectively sensitivity reasons.
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Guest Poster » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:51 am

Ummm, I've always thought there was an "offical" order to the routes, based on how their organised in the start menu screen;

Emi -> Hanako -> Lilly -> Rin -> Shizune.
You did notice they were simply sorted alphabetically, didn't you?
And Lilly's seem to be the "Official Canon" route, since hers is always highlighted in the library and is the only one who gets an epilogue. (Though personally I thought Lilly was too good for Hisao) (And also, the titles of her acts; "Past, Present, Future", that felt very encompassing of a person's life, as if it's "The One", all the other ones seem somewhat less important compared to that.)

(and also, in Lilly's route there's that rooftop lunch scene where All the girls got together minus Shizune and Misha, that was as close as the game got in bringing everyone together for a warm "fun fuzzy" scene, with the purpose of emphasising / dramatising the resulting heart flutter from so many cute girls notwithstanding)
When I open the library section Act1 is highlighted and the epilogue was simply the writer's personal choice. There is no canon route in the game. And Lilly's certainly not too good for Hisao. She has her flaws...they're just slightly more subtle.
I reasoned Emi was the "least serious", on account of her childish behaviour,

And Rin was "second least serious", on account of her bizarre character.
Emi isn't really that childish and her major conflict (fear of attachment) is very much an adult's conflict, not that of a child.

And Rin is only less serious until the moment you see her Act2 intro. From that point on, her route tops everyone else's in seriousness and heavyhandedness.
(There was also the matter of the time frame; Emi's was seemingly the shortest, Rin second-shortest, Hanako third (or overlaps with Rin), Lilly fourth, and Shizune very very long, all the way past Tanabata and beyond)
Hanako's actually the shortest. Both in words and in actual timeframe. Hisao has a committed girlfriend in Hanako about 6 weeks after he first met her. With Shizune, the part where they become an item is all the way at the festival and then Act 3 and 4 haven't even started yet.
And I think Hanako's route Has to be played before Lilly's, since Hanako's story is more-or-less a subset of Lilly's. It doesn't feel right to go through so much of Hanako's story elements, and you end up with Lilly. It would feel like taking the "special first time feeling" out of playing Hanako's route next.
Except in Lilly's routes, they're Lilly's story elements instead of Hanako's.
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:53 pm

Dream wrote:Curious, i seem to be the only person i've met who didn't try to "take care" of Hanako nor did that thought even cross his mind. What attracted me to Hanako at first was that she was mysterious in a way, and i had the impression that she had an interesting personality. Her shyness was rather frustrating at times but that made the few times when she does take action (the park, after the birthday party, end of Act 2, etc.) Much more meaningful/valuable and precious. That and her honesty and eagerness made her one of my favorite characters in the VN.

Well i had similar sentiments but it's worth noting that because of my own personal history i'm used to dealing people who have emotional and mental problems, so i'd know to be patient with her and to punch myself in the balls whenever i thought she somehow needed "Protection."
Incidentally i wanted to punch Hisao in the balls whenever he said that he wanted to protect her. You think him almost dying in order to get into the Emi arc was preemptive backlash for his stupid white knight behavior?
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Oddball » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:28 pm

And Lilly's seem to be the "Official Canon" route, since hers is always highlighted in the library and is the only one who gets an epilogue. (Though personally I thought Lilly was too good for Hisao) (And also, the titles of her acts; "Past, Present, Future", that felt very encompassing of a person's life, as if it's "The One", all the other ones seem somewhat less important compared to that.)

(and also, in Lilly's route there's that rooftop lunch scene where All the girls got together minus Shizune and Misha, that was as close as the game got in bringing everyone together for a warm "fun fuzzy" scene, with the purpose of emphasising / dramatising the resulting heart flutter from so many cute girls notwithstanding)
I think the best argument for Lilly's route being "canon" would be that she has the only route where the problems of multiple characters are addressed.
And I think Hanako's route Has to be played before Lilly's, since Hanako's story is more-or-less a subset of Lilly's. It doesn't feel right to go through so much of Hanako's story elements, and you end up with Lilly. It would feel like taking the "special first time feeling" out of playing Hanako's route next.
I recommend NOT doing Lilly's route right after you do Hanako's.. at least not if you don't want to feel guilty. There's a few lines of dialogue in Lilly's route that suggest Hanako still likes Hisao.
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:51 pm

I can relate to much of what's being said here. See the image I added to the blooper reel. It wasn't really meant as a joke. I actually did Lilly's route last. Interestingly enough, I did Shizune's route second, right after two Hanako runs. Once just wasn't enough for me so I did it again. I consider Rin's the hardest at first. I just couldn't figure that girl out, and it felt hard to get romantically attached to her until near the end of her route. Not that she's not good, I'm sure she is, she just didn't give me as much feels as she did confusion, lol. But finishing Lilly's route last just brought closure to all the stories of the girls, because it made me want to go back and do Hanako's again. Then I read what I consider the greatest fan fiction on here, Sisterhood. And BOOM, it felt like Hanako's route was effectively doubled. I was amazed. I was like yep, Hanako's route is now the best in the game because it's just so ballin'.

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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Xanatos » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:44 pm

LordDarknus wrote:Ummm, I've always thought there was an "offical" order to the routes

And Lilly's seem to be the "Official Canon" route
If you have to put "official" in quotation marks then it isn't official. And there is no canon route.
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by LordDarknus » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:34 am

Guest Poster wrote:
Ummm, I've always thought there was an "offical" order to the routes, based on how their organised in the start menu screen;

Emi -> Hanako -> Lilly -> Rin -> Shizune.
You did notice they were simply sorted alphabetically, didn't you?
Err, yeah, but the pictures were sorted the same way too, Emi and Hanako loading almost the exact same time, then Lilly, then Rin, then Shizune.

...yeah, never mind. My bad.

Guest Poster wrote:
(There was also the matter of the time frame; Emi's was seemingly the shortest, Rin second-shortest, Hanako third (or overlaps with Rin), Lilly fourth, and Shizune very very long, all the way past Tanabata and beyond)
Hanako's actually the shortest. Both in words and in actual timeframe. Hisao has a committed girlfriend in Hanako about 6 weeks after he first met her. With Shizune, the part where they become an item is all the way at the festival and then Act 3 and 4 haven't even started yet.
I have no complaints and agree to everything you say, except this, for some reason, I felt Hanako's was pretty long. I'm probably wrong, but.. I don't know, the story of the relationship felt slow, as if it took longer than Rin's art gallery for some reason... probably the awkward silences I suppose.


Oddball wrote:
And Lilly's seem to be the "Official Canon" route, since hers is always highlighted in the library and is the only one who gets an epilogue. (Though personally I thought Lilly was too good for Hisao) (And also, the titles of her acts; "Past, Present, Future", that felt very encompassing of a person's life, as if it's "The One", all the other ones seem somewhat less important compared to that.)

(and also, in Lilly's route there's that rooftop lunch scene where All the girls got together minus Shizune and Misha, that was as close as the game got in bringing everyone together for a warm "fun fuzzy" scene, with the purpose of emphasising / dramatising the resulting heart flutter from so many cute girls notwithstanding)
I think the best argument for Lilly's route being "canon" would be that she has the only route where the problems of multiple characters are addressed.
Well, ...yeah. I suppose. That's pretty nice, actually.

Oddball wrote:
And I think Hanako's route Has to be played before Lilly's, since Hanako's story is more-or-less a subset of Lilly's. It doesn't feel right to go through so much of Hanako's story elements, and you end up with Lilly. It would feel like taking the "special first time feeling" out of playing Hanako's route next.
I recommend NOT doing Lilly's route right after you do Hanako's.. at least not if you don't want to feel guilty. There's a few lines of dialogue in Lilly's route that suggest Hanako still likes Hisao.
Yup. I felt bad.

But I think the point of Lilly's story was to be.. mature, "grown up", and Hanako letting her little crush on Hisao go and moving on herself, ..that was a happy thing I felt for her, I reasoned. That she wasn't the "little girl" you knew previously anymore. (Hisao and Lilly were a bit of a "father", "mother" figure to Hanako in Lilly's route, taken almost exactly from Lilly's own words, so it was an entirely different kind of happy feeling I felt for Hanako then)


Xanatos wrote:
LordDarknus wrote:Ummm, I've always thought there was an "offical" order to the routes

And Lilly's seem to be the "Official Canon" route
If you have to put "official" in quotation marks then it isn't official. And there is no canon route.
well... yeah, that was kind of, ...the point of the quotation marks in the first place. I was sharing my own opinions. What I thought was kind of.. right. You know? It's just.. what I thought.

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Carighan
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Carighan » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:39 am

I agree about the perspective of Hanako in Lilly's route. I felt that Hanako actually had a more positive "ending" in Lilly's route in a way, not from Hisao's perspective, but in general. She's way mature at the end of Lilly's story, and that's pretty cool. Plus you lack enough information to give it a believable spin, since the story isn't 100% focused on Hanako.

I like Lilly's story because it feels the odd one out.
It has the basic roles swapped, and Lilly's problem is one I could relate to a lot. And you could see how in Hanako's path Hisao can struggle with something similar. It was nifty to include a path where you are the protected. ;)

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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Guest Poster » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:52 am

She's way mature at the end of Lilly's story, and that's pretty cool. Plus you lack enough information to give it a believable spin, since the story isn't 100% focused on Hanako.
You're right in that since the story didn't focus on Hanako and it doesn't highlight her too much, the way she's shown to mature relatively quickly is fairly believable, but only because throughout Lilly's route, Hanako is portrayed as merely shy and nothing else. Once you finish Hanako's route and you as the player becomes aware that Hanako's issues are much more profound than that, the quick way in which she gains confidence can be a little bit jarring. But I understand that in Lilly's route, the story can't focus too much on Hanako.
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Dream » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:11 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:Well i had similar sentiments but it's worth noting that because of my own personal history i'm used to dealing people who have emotional and mental problems, so i'd know to be patient with her and to punch myself in the balls whenever i thought she somehow needed "Protection."
Incidentally i wanted to punch Hisao in the balls whenever he said that he wanted to protect her. You think him almost dying in order to get into the Emi arc was preemptive backlash for his stupid white knight behavior?
Actually, that brings up something that bothered me a bit throughtout the VN: Hisao's lack of understanding of mental problems. This seems to irritate/happen to a certain degree in all the routes (and possibly Act 1 as well) but it is specially pervasive in Rin's route. That was the first route in which a lot of Hisao's decisions and lines made me cringe. Then again, he's just a kid, so while it is irritating, i suppose it's no surprise that he doesn't know much about mental or emotional problems as people who have been exposed to them due to personal experiences or any other factors. Curiously, aside from the scene right after Hanako's breakdown in class, i don't remember any scene where he said he wanted to protect Hanako. Then again, i don't remember a lot of act 3. Unfortunately i don't think that his near death experience was a retribution for his douchebaggery in the other routes, although it's certainly nice to think so :lol:
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Carighan
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Carighan » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Understandable for a high schooler.
It just contrasts oddly against the more mature (after all, creator- and target-audience and such :P ) rest of his and the other character's behaviour. ;)
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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Denouement » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:32 pm

I distinctly remember when Hisao was yelling at Rin, this was going in my mind: "STFU Hisao. Stop it. Stop right now!"

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Re: So I've just finished Hanako's story

Post by Guest Poster » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:29 pm

Curiously, aside from the scene right after Hanako's breakdown in class, i don't remember any scene where he said he wanted to protect Hanako.
There were several instances of it throughout Act 3. The first one took place just before Hanako's breakdown when Miki suggested Hanako wasn't just shy...she had very real issues. The most prominent one was during the pool game in the jazz bar. The reason it's prominent is because at that point Hisao openly tells Hanako that he'll protect her...which serves to clue her in on what he's thinking. It's the reason she feels he's more interested in protecting her than being with her.

That said, there are also many points both before and after Act 3 where Hisao either acts as the opposite of a white knight (he and Lilly initially agree to take Hanako out on the town to go Karaoke singing for her birthday) or as someone who's trying to stave off those white knight tendencies, so the notion that Hisao's a white knight throughout Hanako's route is false. The only times it really spins out of control is during her neutral and bad ending.
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Re: Cheating Feeling

Post by Hisao&Hanako<3 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:50 pm

Since I'm not finding many newer threads I prefer to comment in, I'll bump an older thread that I can relate to. I went through this "cheating feeling" to some extent. Strangely enough though, right after finishing Hanako's route first, I completed Shizune's, as a "Get it over with" sort of thing. I was like, I'll have to do this sooner or later, so let's get this over with. I wasn't really that upset in the scene where Hanako plays chess with her, though I wish she would have beat her. :lol: I had a moment where I was like "OMG this girl is driving me nuts, let's go on a date, Hanako." But other than that I was fine. I actually can empathize with Shizune quite a bit, really. Not many people in the school know sign language, so other than Misha, who does Shizune really talk to without Misha present? Only in her route does Hisao learn sign language so they can have "one on one" time. It makes me feel rather bad for Shizune, especially in her bad ending. No matter how annoying she can seem at times, I still feel for her and I wouldn't want her to be alone or sad.

Like I said elsewhere, Rin was the girl I had the hardest time getting attached to, until near the end though. I don't feel like repeating those comments here. I can say though, that I've had the game at 100% for a few weeks now, got the bonus image, and guess what, I'm still ready for much more KS. The 'feels' don't wear me down, they strengthen me. I work the opposite of most people.

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Re: Cheating Feeling

Post by Carighan » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:57 pm

For me I got Shizune's bad ending first, and every time I see Shizune and Misha in the other parts, or (really bad) in the few moments where Misha is alone in the other paths, and has her serious/sad face, and gives some advise without her usual persona in front of her... I can't help but be near tears again.

I felt so crap at the end of Shizune's path. If there had been an option "Screw screwing Shizune, click this to talk to Shizune about her relationship to Misha in far greater detail" then I'd have clicked that without even really reading the rest. I would also have clicked "you'll hate yourself for this later, but click her to make Misha end up in a relationship with Shizune". Anything to no longer feel so horrible shit whenever I see Misha in the other paths.
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