Did we change?

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Denouement
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Denouement » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:28 pm

It would be strange to just "ASSUME" that Rin has that, particularly because it isn't hinted at outside of some interpretation of her quirky personality. Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?

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SkyraScarletXVII
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Re: Did we change?

Post by SkyraScarletXVII » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:30 pm

Denouement wrote:It would be strange to just "ASSUME" that Rin has that, particularly because it isn't hinted at outside of some interpretation of her quirky personality. Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?
Yeah, you make a good point. I'm not sure if it did say that or not, but they would have had to take her in regardless because of her lack of arms.
She definitely shares traits was AS sufferers, that much I know. I don't know if she has it or not, but from what I've heard and gathered, it just seems like it. I don't know what the devs say about that. xD
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Xanatos
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Xanatos » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:21 pm

SkyraScarletXVII wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
SkyraScarletXVII wrote:After Rin's, I realised I bit about how another sufferer of my condition (Aspergers Syndrome) managed to cope, through their art.
Does Rin have that?
It's assumed by the general fanbase and its leaders that Rin has autism to some extent, most likely Aspergers. Like her talking about random things is a common trait, and the scene in the art gallery where she breaks down is something a lot of sufferers have too.
Assumptions are largely useless when it comes to this stuff. I could assume Hideaki is forced to crossdress out of some sick fetish of Jigoro's but I don't. (Fanfics do, though...God help you if you find them.)

I've got autism but I don't tend to be too random when talking to people (though often when alone, I'll string together whatever words that pop to mind, and the results make even less sense than Rin)...The breakdowns though...Ehhh. They're unpleasant. Very, very fucking unpleasant. Rin has no shortage of my sympathy there.
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mysterycycle
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Re: Did we change?

Post by mysterycycle » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:01 am

I'm still changing as a result of KS. When I first played, I was in a really dark place for me, and it's been helping me to pull myself out of that pit, though it's slow going.

It's changed the way I think about and act toward disabled people. It's inspired me to return to my artwork and make a real effort to create on a regular basis (even if, for now, 95% of it is KS fanart). I've adopted little changes, like Lilly's attitude about gift-giving (I hate giving gift cards now), and Hanako's feelings on friendship have inspired me to make more of an effort to be a better friend and family member (though I still feel pretty lame most of the time in this regard). Emi inspired me to start running for a while until a knee injury forced me to take a break from it, but I've got new running shoes waiting in the closet as soon as I can resolve to get up at 4am and start Emi's program once more. To my surprise, I've managed to keep off most of the weight I lost when I first started running, too.

I think KS has instilled in me the tools and motivation to become a better person, and is continuing to help me to do that. I've been a KS fan since April, and I'm still obsessed with it, so it's certainly had longevity.
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Steinherz
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Steinherz » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:08 am

Xanatos wrote:
SkyraScarletXVII wrote:
Xanatos wrote: Does Rin have that?
It's assumed by the general fanbase and its leaders that Rin has autism to some extent, most likely Aspergers. Like her talking about random things is a common trait, and the scene in the art gallery where she breaks down is something a lot of sufferers have too.
I can personally say (I have Aspergers Syndrome) that Rin strikes me as someone with a possibility of having it. She does show the classic examples of it (however she could just also be the person who has problems with lucidity).
(also, Aspergers, while it is a mental disorder is not a "disability" as the way it's mentioned in KS. When they mention Yamaku doesn't take in mentally handicapped I think it means people who have major mental detriments)

And to answer the question asked by the OP. Yes, I most definitely have changed. The more I play this game, the more I realize that human faults are nothing to be ashamed of. Embrace them, be yourself.
Above all, Be Human.
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Reksho
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Reksho » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:20 pm

SkyraScarletXVII wrote:
Xanatos wrote:
SkyraScarletXVII wrote:After Rin's, I realised I bit about how another sufferer of my condition (Aspergers Syndrome) managed to cope, through their art.
Does Rin have that?
It's assumed by the general fanbase and its leaders that Rin has autism to some extent, most likely Aspergers. Like her talking about random things is a common trait, and the scene in the art gallery where she breaks down is something a lot of sufferers have too.
I can't believe people like to slap labels so easily on things so that everything is possible to categorize and conveniently locked away in a labeled box. How about talking about random things is just part of her personality? How about breaking down is just part of her personal past? How about none of these is related to an illness and can happen to anyone if they went through the same circumstances?

Psychological diagnosis is a bit funny with how it diagnoses people. Autism is diagnosed by a list of symptoms that are present in almost everyone. If there are 10 symptoms and you've got 6 of them, you have autism. If you have 5 of them, you don't have autism. See how shitty psychology works with diagnosing people? It doesn't even seperate between symptoms that come from serious mental illnesses and simple personality traits. You like talking about random stuff during a conversation? Whoops, autism is around the corner if you've got 5 more of these ''symptoms''.

So it's assumed by the general fanbase she has autism because she tends to be a bit different, like everyone is different because of personalities?
Assume nothing.

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Pyramid Head
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:53 pm

Denouement wrote:It would be strange to just "ASSUME" that Rin has that, particularly because it isn't hinted at outside of some interpretation of her quirky personality. Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?

I think it was a misprint and what was supposed to be implied was that a mental handicap was not a sure ticket in the way a physical handicap was. Obviously the claim that Yamaku does not take in people with a mental illness of some sort is utter bullshit when you've got Emi and Hanako and yes indeed, Rin. They also brought up an epileptic classmate of Hisao's and the epileptics i know (All two of them) have another condition accompanying that epilepsy.
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Xanatos
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Xanatos » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:12 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:
Denouement wrote:It would be strange to just "ASSUME" that Rin has that, particularly because it isn't hinted at outside of some interpretation of her quirky personality. Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?

I think it was a misprint and what was supposed to be implied was that a mental handicap was not a sure ticket in the way a physical handicap was. Obviously the claim that Yamaku does not take in people with a mental illness of some sort is utter bullshit when you've got Emi and Hanako and yes indeed, Rin. They also brought up an epileptic classmate of Hisao's and the epileptics i know (All two of them) have another condition accompanying that epilepsy.
Emi has no legs. Hanako is horrifically burnt. Rin has no arms. All physical issues.
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:16 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Pyramid Head wrote:
Denouement wrote:It would be strange to just "ASSUME" that Rin has that, particularly because it isn't hinted at outside of some interpretation of her quirky personality. Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?

I think it was a misprint and what was supposed to be implied was that a mental handicap was not a sure ticket in the way a physical handicap was. Obviously the claim that Yamaku does not take in people with a mental illness of some sort is utter bullshit when you've got Emi and Hanako and yes indeed, Rin. They also brought up an epileptic classmate of Hisao's and the epileptics i know (All two of them) have another condition accompanying that epilepsy.
Emi has no legs. Hanako is horrifically burnt. Rin has no arms. All physical issues.

Goddamnit Xanatos we've been over this before with that troll Raven whatever. There is a line in one of the arcs that leaves people with the assumption that Yamaku turns away the mentally handicapped altogether, though that can't be true when you not only consider some members of the student body but the fact that Yamaku does have facilities to help people with mental conditions.
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Xanatos
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Xanatos » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:51 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:Goddamnit Xanatos we've been over this before with that troll Raven whatever. There is a line in one of the arcs that leaves people with the assumption that Yamaku turns away the mentally handicapped altogether, though that can't be true when you not only consider some members of the student body but the fact that Yamaku does have facilities to help people with mental conditions.
Define "troll". I do not think you know what it means.

Anyway, the only one of those students you mentioned who could be accurately assumed to have a mental disorder based on in-game events is Hanako, which still leaves Emi and Rin irrelevant to the matter. Emi's worst mental issue is nightmares but nightmares alone do not make a condition. Rin is just as likely plain weird as any sort of autistic. And the only facilities I recall it having is a nurse's station.

To clarify this nonsense once and for all though...
Denouement wrote:Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?
The line says that, yes. Not in those exact words, mind you, but the gist is indeed "Yamaku doesn't take people with mental problems". But whether or not she has a mental condition, Rin has no arms. That's a physical issue and Yamaku does handle those cases. That line was intended to mean they don't take students whose condition is exclusively mental. You won't find a plain schizophrenic but you might find a schizophrenic missing a foot.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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Pyramid Head
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Pyramid Head wrote:Goddamnit Xanatos we've been over this before with that troll Raven whatever. There is a line in one of the arcs that leaves people with the assumption that Yamaku turns away the mentally handicapped altogether, though that can't be true when you not only consider some members of the student body but the fact that Yamaku does have facilities to help people with mental conditions.
Define "troll". I do not think you know what it means.

Anyway, the only one of those students you mentioned who could be accurately assumed to have a mental disorder based on in-game events is Hanako, which still leaves Emi and Rin irrelevant to the matter. Emi's worst mental issue is nightmares but nightmares alone do not make a mental condition. Rin is just as likely plain weird as any sort of autistic. And the only facilities I recall it having is a nurse's station.

To clarify this nonsense once and for all though...
Denouement wrote:Besides, did they not say in the game that they do not take in mental illness patients?
The line says that, yes. Not in those exact words, mind you, but the gist is indeed "Yamaku doesn't take people with mental problems". But whether or not she has a mental condition, Rin has no arms. That's a physical issue and Yamaku does handle those cases. That line was intended to mean they don't take students whose condition is exclusively mental. You won't find a plain schizophrenic but you might find a schizophrenic missing a foot.

They probably have qualification tests for students who go there on a voluntary basis and only make an exception to this rule with students who have a condition of some sort. And also while she has it a little more under control there are some hints that point to Emi still having some post traumatic stress problems beyond the nightmares.

Oh, that said, Yamaku does have facilities for people having seizures, psychiatrists, and the teachers are trained or at least instructed on handling students with problems, similar to the way American schools apply an individual education program or IEP to students who have mental disorders but are still high functioning. The line that appeared was likely an instance of the writers not being in communication with each other with all the fine details.
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Denouement
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Denouement » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:05 pm

I see, I didn't think that comment thoroughly because it was a tacked on point in passing. Still do not agree with the need to "diagnose" her "strange" behavior, simply because it is odd to just label her without there being any specific reference.

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Pyramid Head
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:10 pm

Denouement wrote:I see, I didn't think that comment thoroughly because it was a tacked on point in passing. Still do not agree with the need to "diagnose" her "strange" behavior, simply because it is odd to just label her without there being any specific reference.

Using the rough diagnosis guideline for Asperger's Syndrome and my own personal experience it actually does fit.
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Steinherz
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Steinherz » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:24 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:
Denouement wrote:I see, I didn't think that comment thoroughly because it was a tacked on point in passing. Still do not agree with the need to "diagnose" her "strange" behavior, simply because it is odd to just label her without there being any specific reference.

Using the rough diagnosis guideline for Asperger's Syndrome and my own personal experience it actually does fit.
Speaking from personal experience also, it does fit. (I myself have Aspergers. It can get very irritating for me at times dealing with people)
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Denouement
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Re: Did we change?

Post by Denouement » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:25 pm

I said nothing about it "fitting", I'm saying that simply deeming a character in a virtual novel to have Asperger's seems silly.

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