Thoughts on the H-scenes?

[Shadowyeclipse]

You know that's actually been a recurring problem with me, trying to explain that an item that gives one impression is in reality completely different and worth checking out. Sort of a negative world example of Katawa Shoujo is the third person shooter Spec Ops: The Line which is advertised like one of those boring modern war shooters (or spunkgargleweewee if you're a Yahtzee follower) but is actually the closest thing to survival horror boxed console releases has seen since Condemned: Criminal Origins. Like Katawa Shoujo it creates a very strong emotional high, only in the case of Spec Ops said high comes from intense guilt and increasing horror and distrust which can grow strong enough to make you feel physically ill, only you don't trust your player character enough to turn the game off.

Seems like you did a good job explaining Spec Ops to me.

And yeah, I thought it was a generic war game myself. I haven't heard too much about it otherwise. I'm a big fan of horror games, so I'll have to remember to check it out.

From what I've heard, Spec ops only plays and looks like a generic war game to make fun of generic war games. I could care less, but Yahtzee approved of it, and he's PAID to be an asshole when reviewing games. The fact he was rendered nearly speechless about SO:TL, especially since he hates the modern war genre, is something of massive brownie points towards it.

Anyway, I need to go get it. I should have gotten it on the black friday sales. Oh well.



But, back on topic: I don't know if I've weighed in my review on this, but the H-scenes were well done, though because they exist, it instantly brands Katawa Shoujo as cripple porn to most people.

I honestly don't see the problem with most people not liking Katawa Shoujo because of this reason. If they aren't mature enough to acknowledge the fact that sex exists, then they probably aren't the type of people I would want to share an opinion with.

[Reksho]

If they aren't mature enough to acknowledge the fact that sex exists, then they probably aren't the type of people I would want to share an opinion with.

What does media preference have to do with acknowledgement of sex? I am mature enough to acknowledge the fact that intelligent robots exist, but I still don't like sci-fi stuff. I am well aware that there are wonderful shows out there with sci-fi elements which I will be missing, but I just find the sci-fi part off-putting. This doesn't mean I'm not mature, just a matter of taste.

Maybe it's a bit different with sex because many people tend to link that with low quality media and/or finding it to be the only part that's got the developer's attention. Still, using I-don't-want-sex-in-my-media as a rule of thumb to choose which media to consume does not say anything about maturity. It's merely a filter.

[Xanatos]

If they aren't mature enough to acknowledge the fact that sex exists, then they probably aren't the type of people I would want to share an opinion with.

What does media preference have to do with acknowledgement of sex? I am mature enough to acknowledge the fact that intelligent robots exist, but I still don't like sci-fi stuff. I am well aware that there are wonderful shows out there with sci-fi elements which I will be missing, but I just find the sci-fi part off-putting. This doesn't mean I'm not mature, just a matter of taste.

Maybe it's a bit different with sex because many people tend to link that with low quality media and/or finding it to be the only part that's got the developer's attention. Still, using the I-don't-want-sex-in-my-media as a rule of thumb to choose which media to consume does not say anything about maturity. It's merely a filter.

There was a thread somewhere on this forum about the content in the game. The OP was warned beforehand about the content. They proceeded...They saw a couple tits, then immediately decided to shut it down, show up here to whine about it and the studio's failure to censor it to their excessive liking, and never finish the game. That would be the whole "immature refusal to acknowledge the existence of sexuality" thing.

Preferring to avoid media with sexual content is one thing (though a tad ridiculous, given that content is likely less than 5% of the whole unless it's a porno). Immediately decrying all media with sexual content as porn to be completely censored is another thing, and that thing is called "stupidity".

It's essentially the difference between "I'm not going to watch this movie because it has nudity in it." and "I'm going to boycott the makers of this movie, every store that carries it, and start a fucking moral crusade because it has nudity in it."

One is reasonable and a simple matter of preference. The other is a knee-jerk overreaction without actually bothering to learn about the media in question.

The sort who decry KS (and many other things, for that matter) for its "adult" content are far more often the latter who just hear it has some sex and immediately disregard it as sick fetish material, which is probably the portion of people he was referring to in his post.

[Oddball]

What does media preference have to do with acknowledgement of sex? I am mature enough to acknowledge the fact that intelligent robots exist, but I still don't like sci-fi stuff.

Not liking Sci-fi is fine, but you don't you don't go around saying that Terminator would work a lot better if they ditched the killer robot stuff and just made him a really tough guy from the future, so you're still one up on some of the people we're talking about here.

At least I'm going to assume you don't go around saying that. ... Do you?

[inquisitivenegro]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

[ravenlord]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

1) Most of the girls have to make the first move because Hisao is paranoid about his heart. if they wait around to be seduced, then they would be waiting a long time.

2) There is a double standard that active men are studs (and enhances their value), and active women are sluts (cheapens there value). Fact is that girls like sex too, and in a relationship the dominating partner will take the lead on most things. Some people may find it distatseful to see Hisao being used as a sex-toy (they prefer to see it the other way around) but life is life. Horny young girls have been pouncing on shy young boys from the beginning of time. The main difference between the reverse is that boys tend to put up much less resistance when they are the objects of lust form pretty young girls

[Pyramid Head]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

1) Most of the girls have to make the first move because Hisao is paranoid about his heart. if they wait around to be seduced, then they would be waiting a long time.

2) There is a double standard that active men are studs (and enhances their value), and active women are sluts (cheapens there value). Fact is that girls like sex too, and in a relationship the dominating partner will take the lead on most things. Some people may find it distatseful to see Hisao being used as a sex-toy (they prefer to see it the other way around) but life is life. Horny young girls have been pouncing on shy young boys from the beginning of time. The main difference between the reverse is that boys tend to put up much less resistance when they are the objects of lust form pretty young girls

I'll be fucked. Ravenlord said something i can agree with. Though on the other hand it is worth mentioning that the consequences for unsafe sex are much more severe for the woman involved than they are for the man so while you could argue that it would make more sense that women be more cautious in their sex lives, yeah, the whole stud/slut double standard is kind of annoying. Especially with how weirdly obsessed some men get with virgins.

[inquisitivenegro]

i am in no way saying that I felt my experience was slightly strained because the 'girls were sluts,' nononono

[Pyramid Head]

i am in no way saying that I felt my experience was slightly strained because the 'girls were sluts,' nononono

Oh no, i was just referring to my agreeing with with ravenlord on the social commentary. As for your post i disagree with you on Lilly, acts like that aren't that unusual considering what happened immediately prior to it and the type of stress they'd be under. As for Shizune though... yeah there is plenty of room for nasty misinterpretation especially considering how Shizune communicates. Hisao doesn't object but i'm not completely convinced that they wanted to paint Shizune as more than a little mental. Rin made a little sense, Emi did come off as promiscuous but it kind of fits the type of profile you'd draw for someone with her history, and Hanako...
Well that one was easy to interpret. Massive mistake due to both of them completely misreading one another due to Hisao's white knight bollocks and Hanako's social ignorance. It's a lesser deal than you're making it.

[ravenlord]

i am in no way saying that I felt my experience was slightly strained because the 'girls were sluts,' nononono

I am missing your point then. What part of the H-Scenes are cheapening the girls but leaving Hisao's virture intact? Or do you just object to sex (or maybe pre-matital sex) in general? There are some people out there that do think that sex is a "dirty" thing . . .

[Guest Poster]

As for your post i disagree with you on Lilly, acts like that aren't that unusual considering what happened immediately prior to it and the type of stress they'd be under.

In a way you do have to wonder if, seeing that Hisao just had a massive heart flutter, getting dirty with each other only a few hours afterwards was really such a smart idea. But from Lilly's point of view, not wasting any time makes sense. At that point, she didn't know yet what to do with her parents' summoning, but she did realize she and Hisao may not be together for very long.

As for Shizune though... yeah there is plenty of room for nasty misinterpretation especially considering how Shizune communicates. Hisao doesn't object but i'm not completely convinced that they wanted to paint Shizune as more than a little mental.

It wasn't rape, but it could have been if Hisao had wanted their intercourse to stop and Shizune would ignore it.

Emi did come off as promiscuous but it kind of fits the type of profile you'd draw for someone with her history,

Don't you mean horny? Promiscuous means having multiple sexual contacts at the same time...there's no indication of unfaithfulness on Emi's part. Emi's focus on sex makes sense for her character though...she tries to compensate her inability for emotional intimacy by being overly physical.

[Xanatos]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

People in relationships have sex. Hisao/Lilly and Hisao/Shizune were in relationships during those respective scenes. Where's the problem? Lilly was in a rush on account of her family's summons. Shizune just wanted to screw without Hisao's overthinking nonsense ruining it.

And when is there any rape with Shizune? Did you get some special scene that nobody else who ever played got?

[Shadowyeclipse]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

People in relationships have sex. Hisao/Lilly and Hisao/Shizune were in relationships during those respective scenes. Where's the problem? Lilly was in a rush on account of her family's summons. Shizune just wanted to screw without Hisao's overthinking nonsense ruining it.

And when is there any rape with Shizune? Did you get some special scene that nobody else who ever played got?

He's referring to where Hisao was tied down to a chair.

But really, Hisao never thinks with his dick, now that I think about it. Unless you cheat on Shizune with Misha, but then you are a horrible person.

The sex scenes really only make partial sense. I can see how they do, but then again, not having them, or introducing them later into the stories would have resulted a same, or possibly better effect, but then again, they are perfectly placed as well.

I'm confused, and I hate it when I'm on both sides of an opinion, like I am now. In a way, some of the sex scenes felt rushed or thrown in there, and others actually made quite a lot of sense. Hanako had sex with Hisao, because she was afraid of losing him, Lilly's sex felt a bit rushed, Shizune's route... well, I don't know what to think about her route, much less the sex. But that's kind of where I stand on this.

I stand everywhere.

[Xanatos]

I just remembered, another reason why the h-scenes brushed me the wrong way was that I felt that they 'cheapened' the girls, especially at how easily they put out for Hisao-I mean with Lily its confess then come home for sex, with Shizune its rape etc
Maybe the writers were playing with the idea of how their relationships are 'broken' with the abrupt sex (from a realistic point of view of course: we all saw the hscenes coming from a mile away); but doesn't that contradict with the whole idea that these are real girls with real passion and flaws?

P.S urgh I've made such a mess with this post...I don't know why but when it comes to discussing KS I'm less eloquent than a secondary school reserve debater
Hopefully y'all get the gist of what I'm trying to say

People in relationships have sex. Hisao/Lilly and Hisao/Shizune were in relationships during those respective scenes. Where's the problem? Lilly was in a rush on account of her family's summons. Shizune just wanted to screw without Hisao's overthinking nonsense ruining it.

And when is there any rape with Shizune? Did you get some special scene that nobody else who ever played got?

He's referring to where Hisao was tied down to a chair.

But really, Hisao never thinks with his dick, now that I think about it. Unless you cheat on Shizune with Misha, but then you are a horrible person.

The sex scenes really only make partial sense. I can see how they do, but then again, not having them, or introducing them later into the stories would have resulted a same, or possibly better effect, but then again, they are perfectly placed as well.

I'm confused, and I hate it when I'm on both sides of an opinion, like I am now. In a way, some of the sex scenes felt rushed or thrown in there, and others actually made quite a lot of sense. Hanako had sex with Hisao, because she was afraid of losing him, Lilly's sex felt a bit rushed, Shizune's route... well, I don't know what to think about her route, much less the sex. But that's kind of where I stand on this.

I stand everywhere.

I know what he's referring to. I'm referring to the fact that bondage isn't rape if everyone involved is obviously okay with it.

Emi's make sense due to her whole closeness phobia.

Lilly's just getting it done while she can. (Also, she's probably got an addictive personality.)

Hanako's...Well, Hanako's is just uncomfortable.

Misha's is awkward and unpleasant. And it pissed me off.

Shizune's second scene (assuming I'm not forgetting any) is largely unnecessary but enjoyable. The first fits in well.

And Rin...Rin's scenes are depressing.

[Shadowyeclipse]

And Rin...Rin's ENTIRE FUCKING ROUTE IS depressing.

FTFY