Is there such a thing?

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ProfAllister
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by ProfAllister » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:58 am

Love does exist, but it's not something you find - it's something you make.

Both of the people involved need to be mature enough to approach it properly. Both of the people need to be properly invested in the relationship. But it does happen.

You may think you have particular preferences for a girl - standards of appearance, or a certain physical feature you don't think you could live without. Throw those out the window. Appearances can change, and you may be surprised to find that you appreciate things that fall outside your "preference." What matters is that there can be some meeting of the minds. A boob guy can find himself falling in love with a flat woman and live happily ever after. The prognosis is much less rosy (but not a foregone conclusion) for the intellectual who marries an airhead with a smoking hot bod.

Once you find someone you can love, most artistic imitations pale in comparison. You can appreciate them, but you know they're a far cry from the real thing.

I'd like to believe that I've found love. I've been happily married for 3 years, with a child on the way. This is admittedly a very short time. I would venture, that, whether or not I have found a true and lasting love myself, I have known many people who have found true love. I am close to couples who have been married for 30, 40, 50+ years, who still look at each other like a couple of newlyweds. They've had conflicts, and troubles, just like everyone else. But the conflicts don't matter to them more than they matter to each other.

Of course, it's a two-way street. The relationship requires that both parties keep investing into it. If one of the two people gives up, the relationship is going to fall apart. The love may survive, one one side or on both, but it's inevitably a tragic love when it persists beyond the collapse of the break-up.

So, yes, there is such a thing. You need to work for it, and you need to work to keep it, but it's there. You never know where you'll find the seed, but, if you make the effort to nurture it, it will grow beyond your wildest dreams.
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Heartless Wanderer
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Heartless Wanderer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:25 am

Xanatos wrote:And believing doesn't make anything exist! If that were true, we'd have zombie soldiers. :mrgreen:
When speaking of intangible concepts such as love, friendship, loyalty, trust, altruism, good and evil, etc etc, the most important thing is always that you believe they exist. If you cease to believe in them they cease to have meaning. This is because all of these things are at their core ideas and feelings. They only exist insofar as people make them exist.
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Reksho
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Reksho » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:20 am

Xanatos wrote:It's an ideal and ideals are rarely the reality of any situation.
I somewhat disagree with this. Not that ideals are rarely a representation of the real world, that's true. But I actually think KS isn't such an ideal portrayal of relationships as you say. Most media tend to portray relationships as a coincidental meeting between the two lovers who have something in common and go further from there. After that love develops and one of the two eventually confesses in which an official relationship is established. Then everything fits and is all lovey-dovey until some kind of problem presents itself which tries to rip them apart. This problem is solved (of course) and they happily live ever after.

KS contains only the first half of this. What KS does exceptionally well is that it assumes people aren't perfectly fit for each other, even when they're in love with each other. KS presents the characters with all their good qualities and beautiful attributes, but at the same time presents the faults and holes to signify that they are just as broken as any human being. They are human. They are not two persons who are meant for each other as they are both perfect and therefore need to be together. No, they are two persons who are together because they cover each others flaws, give each other hope and become a unity to tackle life together.

The fact that the girls have physical disabilities emphasizes this for the player by being able to concentrate the emotional in the physical at first. And yet you hear everyone on this forum love the characters in KS for who they are in spite of their disabilities. This is proof of how well KS is written in this regard.

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TunaSandwich
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by TunaSandwich » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:44 am

I thought that i found love just like in the movies once, but thats a long story i dont want to tell twice.
Many times relationships like these are nearly impossible, but it exists. I have friend whose relationship was like straight out of KS.
Just without the...arrythmia and special school.
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Xanatos
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Xanatos » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:22 pm

Reksho wrote:
Xanatos wrote:Most media tend to portray relationships as a coincidental meeting between the two lovers who have something in common and go further from there. After that love develops and one of the two eventually confesses in which an official relationship is established. Then everything fits and is all lovey-dovey until some kind of problem presents itself which tries to rip them apart. This problem is solved (of course) and they happily live ever after.
All of that is the same as what KS portrays. The only difference is the order of events, where the problem comes first. Barring post-ending speculation, it still ends with the 'happily ever after' bit which is the ideal. Real relationships don't often (if ever) reach that ideal because real love is not so simple to find, real people are not as pleasing as characters specifically tailored for attraction and compatibility (nor as easy to deal with), and real relationships are not a short string of easy choices to a happy ending. KS portrays a more realistic ideal than the standard cliche media but an ideal just the same.
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Boppin
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Boppin » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:37 am

Love is accepting one another for who they are, their perks and faults included. This goes for both sides of the relationship. Without that comfortable atmosphere, without that ability to trust each other with absolutely anything, weakness exists that can tug at the heartstrings.

Everyone's gotta have compassion and empathy.
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Megumeru
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Megumeru » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:59 pm

It exist.

Well, even up until now I'm still in a relationship with someone from High School, and it's been almost 4 years since we started. Long term and distance too...not easy to maintain, but when it is the right person for you you'd know immediately that you'd regret letting it go.

We didn't have any physical contact, except hugs and light kisses--and that was back in high school. Currently, I'm a 3rd year college/university student...pretty impressive when I think about it.

Maybe it's also what attracted me to Shizune in the first place...maybe.
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Oddball
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Oddball » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:10 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Reksho wrote:
Xanatos wrote:Most media tend to portray relationships as a coincidental meeting between the two lovers who have something in common and go further from there. After that love develops and one of the two eventually confesses in which an official relationship is established. Then everything fits and is all lovey-dovey until some kind of problem presents itself which tries to rip them apart. This problem is solved (of course) and they happily live ever after.
All of that is the same as what KS portrays. The only difference is the order of events, where the problem comes first. Barring post-ending speculation, it still ends with the 'happily ever after' bit which is the ideal. Real relationships don't often (if ever) reach that ideal because real love is not so simple to find, real people are not as pleasing as characters specifically tailored for attraction and compatibility (nor as easy to deal with), and real relationships are not a short string of easy choices to a happy ending. KS portrays a more realistic ideal than the standard cliche media but an ideal just the same.
First, let's ditch that bit about coincidental meeting. Their dorms are right next to each other and they go to the same school. Several of the characters are in the same class. It's no coincidence that you meet your class representative in the class you two happen to share, and if you consider running into the artist in the art room a coincidence, you have a far broader meaning for the word than I do.

As far as happily ever after, you seem to be confusing two people being happy together with them never having problems again. Most of the endings outright say that things aren't going to be perfect. Hanako still has loads of issues. She openly says she's not sure if she can open up to people other than Hisao. Hisao never really understands Rin, but they decide that's okay. Shizune might not even end with them in a realtionship. Emi might be willing to open up t people, but she still seems to have an unhealthy fixation with living in the now, still has her phantom pains, and her dad is still dead.

Plus there's the physical matters. The characters are never going to be perfect. Lilly might not have any complaints about being blind, but she still needs help with things. Shizune is always going to have problems communicating with people. Hisao has a life threatening condition that will be hanging over his head his entire life.

There's something Stephen King wrote in one of his essays that's always stuck with me. "Happily ever after" only works because the story stops in the right place. Continue a story out long enough and everybody dies.
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Beoran
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Beoran » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:09 pm

To answer the question: yes, such great love does exist. However, it's a lot of work to make love grow, and keep it strong. And that's why people often tend to settle for less, a relationship of mutual convenience, without deep love or passion.

While I agree that it's not good to focus only on the physical aspect, I believe it's also important not to forget it. But the most important thing is that relationships are in essence a bit paradoxical: the more you want to be happy yourself, the less you will be happy together. The more you want the other to be happy, and the more the other wants you to be happy, the better it will be for both of you. If both think foremost about each other, then both will be happy. If both, or one of the two, thinks foremost about themselves both will be more unhappy.


But it's hard to be generous when you doubt the other person; So mutual forgiveness is also needed. Of course, this all is easier when you have some things in common, and it's important to communicate well, but the most important thing is the mutual drive to look for solutions that will make both people happy, as opposed to "solutions" that make only one person happy, or "solution" that are half-hearted compromises. It may seem selfish, but people have needs and wants, and both people should get what they need and want out of the relationship, in all aspects, and both must continously keep looking for ways to keep each other happy.

Finally I'd say this: don't despair about love. Love isn't perfect, because its is not a miracle from the heavens, but something we humans build between each other. Love between two people is the greatest invention mankind has ever made, and will ever make. As long as there are humans, they will rediscover and reinvent it. I hope that you too will discover it soon.
Kind Regards, B.
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Xanatos
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Xanatos » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:42 am

Oddball wrote:There's something Stephen King wrote in one of his essays that's always stuck with me. "Happily ever after" only works because the story stops in the right place. Continue a story out long enough and everybody dies.
And if you continue it too long, sometimes everybody HAS to die. :P That's why he blows up half the cast of The Stand.
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FoxtrotZero
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by FoxtrotZero » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:01 pm

elpreda wrote:This may seem boring or idiotic to some of you, but I feel the need to ask.
I found out about Katawa Shoujo while browsing the internet and decided to try it out of curiosity. I didn't use a walkthrough, I just went with my choices and got Lilly's route and I was astonished, as most of you probably were too. What really impressed me wasn't her situation, looks, or sex scenes but the actual relationship between her and Hisao, how profound their feelings for each other were, how they relied on each other. I am 21 and I've been in 2 relationships so far, but I gave up on both of them simply because there was nothing there besides the physical attraction. I could feel more love in a game I played for a few hours and I've felt in years of being together with the one I was supposedly in love with.
So I ask those who can understand what I'm talking about: Does this kind of love actually exist? Has anyone ever found it, or is this just an ideal that can't be achieved? I feel like my relationships were just a mockery of love, but I also get the feeling that that's what passes for normal in reality.
Oh god, that rollercoaster again.

Yes, that sort of love exists out there. Somewhere. I have no shame in admitting Lilly was the first person I truly loved, and don't get me wrong when I say that; Lilly is a character from a game, but she's a very well written character from a game that's affected me deeply, and I think what she represents more than who she is as that character is what got to me. I likewise fell head-over-heels for Hanako (and after the dust settled, I liked Hanako even more, but I have a thing for meek girls), but by that time I was considerably more innoculated.
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Beoran
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Beoran » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:13 am

Well, if you were able to feel this way about fictional characters, that's can be a step in the learning process towards real love. If you can handle that real people also have many small and disagreeable sides, as well as nice and endearing ones, then take the next level and try to find a relationship with a real person. :)
Kind Regards, B.
Feeling like your heart is broken? Need to get it off your chest? Tell your story here.
Take a look at Eruta my jRPG under development. New web site since december 2012.
Play Ature, my free and open source indie Atari 2600 action adventure game.
All great love is above pity: for it wants - to create what is loved! -- F. Nietzsche - Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

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yummines
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by yummines » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:03 am

it might exist. after all if the one person for you is one in a million, that means there is at least a few thousand people for you.

that is, if you count the entire world.

the chances are of you meeting that one person is very slim. there definently is no perfect someone though, just someone who can stand you and you can stand for extended periods of time. that's why happily married people often refer to their significant other as their best friend, because friends tend to be that kind of person.

good luck with that.

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Reksho
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by Reksho » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:02 am

I always sigh out of irritation that the media indoctrinated us that there is such a thing as ''the one'' who is the only one that is right for you in the whole wide world.

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H_Shot_W
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Re: Is there such a thing?

Post by H_Shot_W » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:26 am

Well, I was married at the age of twenty two, and thought I was absolutely in love.

The woman was dedicated, even though my work in the military had put a strain on our relationship. We never had kids, though we wanted to.

One day she had come to me and had apparently got sick of it all. She gave me an ultimatum. She couldn't keep "this game up" as she had so eloquently put it and so she gave me two choices: the Beret or her.

. . .

I'm still a Weapons Sergeant.

However, that isn't to say there is no such thing as true love. I myself have given up on finding it for myself, because after one failed marriage and numerous other failed relationships, it doesn's seem like the kind of thing meant for me. In the end it looks like I'm to be eternally married to my career and I have no real problem with that sort of thing. I've met people who have found it. Hell, one of my good friends has been doing the same job as me for almost as long as me, and he's been happily married to the same woman for years. Maybe, should some woman ever come to realize that I'd much rather be happy than safe, and who can appreciate that finds that then I might be tempted to put a ring on it.

Until that time, I'm just going to drink my beer, and kick my feet up.

I wish you the best, though, and may you have a wonderful experience of it.
"Adversity is like a strong wind. It tears away from us all but the things that cannot be torn, so that we see ourselves as we really are." ~ Arthur Golden, author.

"The very greatest things - great thoughts, discoveries, inventions - have usually been nurtured in hardship, often pondered over in sorrow, and at length established with difficulty." ~ Samuel Smiles, author.

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