KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

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Ritter Delorges
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Ritter Delorges » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:35 am

I presume you are talking to me.
Atario wrote:The fact that Delta pointed out like a million messages ago that this sort of work does not violate the license doesn't seem to stop a million messages being posted leaping to the devs' unneeded defense. That's kinda funny.
Of course I read that. I am just not convinced.
To those saying making something that screws with the game's files also constitutes a "derivative work": that's ludicrous. If that were true, the existence of 7zip would be a violation, since it can zip the game folder, resulting in a derivative zip file; as would any hex editor, since hex editors can make arbitrary changes to any file, also resulting in an arbitrary (indeed, given patience, every possible) derivative work.
The issue is not so much creating or distributing the tool but using the tool to create a modified KS.
Cries of "because they said so and you're a dick if you even think of doing anything they don't like" are stupid and childish.
I don't really care what they do with KS. It was about what good was supposed to come of posting that and posting it here of all places. Kinda like you didn't like my post.
Let's say for the sake of argument that they like us to, for example, play the game ourselves and draw our own conclusions. Would that make us dicks for talking about it with each other on online fora, thus influencing one another's perceptions of the game and violating that wish? C'mon. The devs are great, but they're not your gods.
That would would be beyond the scope of their copyright and outside of this forum the devs wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

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Atario
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Atario » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:39 pm

Aura wrote:You're totally wrong about this. If a mobile port that filled our requirements was possible to make without unreasonable effort, we'd likely have made it ourselves ages ago.
Ok. I was guessing at the motivations. So it really is just a technical-shortcomings-of-Ren'Py thing and nothing else?
Your "counterargument" is a strawman of the worst kind and unrelated to the argument. We wouldn't have any rights to ask people something like that. You're still a dick if you breach a very reasonable license of a visual novel that was released in good faith and for free.
I'm not talking about breaching the license, since, as has been pointed out, making a tool to allow the end-user to produce his very own personal Android version of the game would not violate said license. It's at that this point everyone seems to go "oh yeah, well, then you're a dick for displeasing the devs". My hypothetical was exactly like this — both are purely unenforceable preferences on the part of the devs and therefore to be taken as such. That's not a strawman, that's a parallel.
Ritter Delorges wrote:I presume you are talking to me.
Not in particular, no.
The issue is not so much creating or distributing the tool but using the tool to create a modified KS.
And that would be up to the end-user to do for himself. As long as said end-user does not then go on to redistribute his transformed version of the game, he's perfectly within his rights.
Let's say for the sake of argument that they like us to, for example, play the game ourselves and draw our own conclusions. Would that make us dicks for talking about it with each other on online fora, thus influencing one another's perceptions of the game and violating that wish? C'mon. The devs are great, but they're not your gods.
That would would be beyond the scope of their copyright
Yes, it would. As would preventing the creation and distribution of outside file-manipulation tools.
NB: none of the above is a request

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pandaphil
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by pandaphil » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:56 pm

Well, all I know is, if the devs didn't approve, this thread would have been locked ages ago.

Currently have KS here on my tablet. Hoping to finish Shizune's route soon.
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Kutagh
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Kutagh » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:34 pm

Something to add here...

The main issue here is the lack of control over the quality of the port. Which is understandable, because since 4LS is seen as the maker of Katawa Shoujo, most 'dumb' users (not really dumb but just ignorant or not tech savvy) will first complain to 4LS when something goes wrong. And we know that not tech savvy and ignorant people frequently forget to mention important details that cause others to waste a lot of time on helping them. It's understandable that this is not desired by 4LS.
This does not mean that the act of making a port of Katawa Shoujo is an issue for 4LS, it is the act of distributing it to others. If someone does make a port, (s)he knows (or should know) the risks involved and thus first seek the issue at the port rather than with 4LS. But distribute it to others and they'll think it is likely an official port or condoned by 4LS and thus assume that if there is an issue there, it is an issue that can be fixed by 4LS, leading back to my earlier point.

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Potato
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Potato » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:06 am

Kutagh wrote:Something to add here...

The main issue here is the lack of control over the quality of the port. Which is understandable, because since 4LS is seen as the maker of Katawa Shoujo, most 'dumb' users (not really dumb but just ignorant or not tech savvy) will first complain to 4LS when something goes wrong. And we know that not tech savvy and ignorant people frequently forget to mention important details that cause others to waste a lot of time on helping them. It's understandable that this is not desired by 4LS.
This does not mean that the act of making a port of Katawa Shoujo is an issue for 4LS, it is the act of distributing it to others. If someone does make a port, (s)he knows (or should know) the risks involved and thus first seek the issue at the port rather than with 4LS. But distribute it to others and they'll think it is likely an official port or condoned by 4LS and thus assume that if there is an issue there, it is an issue that can be fixed by 4LS, leading back to my earlier point.
Wouldn't that be easily solved with a giant red disclaimer stating that 4LS didn't make the port?
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Kutagh » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:35 am

Potato wrote:
Kutagh wrote:Something to add here...

The main issue here is the lack of control over the quality of the port. Which is understandable, because since 4LS is seen as the maker of Katawa Shoujo, most 'dumb' users (not really dumb but just ignorant or not tech savvy) will first complain to 4LS when something goes wrong. And we know that not tech savvy and ignorant people frequently forget to mention important details that cause others to waste a lot of time on helping them. It's understandable that this is not desired by 4LS.
This does not mean that the act of making a port of Katawa Shoujo is an issue for 4LS, it is the act of distributing it to others. If someone does make a port, (s)he knows (or should know) the risks involved and thus first seek the issue at the port rather than with 4LS. But distribute it to others and they'll think it is likely an official port or condoned by 4LS and thus assume that if there is an issue there, it is an issue that can be fixed by 4LS, leading back to my earlier point.
Wouldn't that be easily solved with a giant red disclaimer stating that 4LS didn't make the port?
You know that people still will be ignorant and google "Katawa Shoujo" and use the first result to find help...

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pandaphil
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by pandaphil » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:33 am

You know, if people are stupid enough to miss an obvious warning label, then I'd say its safe to just ignore them.
Last edited by pandaphil on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Potato
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Potato » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:42 am

Kutagh wrote:
Potato wrote:
Kutagh wrote:Something to add here...

The main issue here is the lack of control over the quality of the port. Which is understandable, because since 4LS is seen as the maker of Katawa Shoujo, most 'dumb' users (not really dumb but just ignorant or not tech savvy) will first complain to 4LS when something goes wrong. And we know that not tech savvy and ignorant people frequently forget to mention important details that cause others to waste a lot of time on helping them. It's understandable that this is not desired by 4LS.
This does not mean that the act of making a port of Katawa Shoujo is an issue for 4LS, it is the act of distributing it to others. If someone does make a port, (s)he knows (or should know) the risks involved and thus first seek the issue at the port rather than with 4LS. But distribute it to others and they'll think it is likely an official port or condoned by 4LS and thus assume that if there is an issue there, it is an issue that can be fixed by 4LS, leading back to my earlier point.
Wouldn't that be easily solved with a giant red disclaimer stating that 4LS didn't make the port?
You know that people still will be ignorant and google "Katawa Shoujo" and use the first result to find help...
Which in no way invalidates that a big label would alleviate much of the problem. :lol:
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Oddball
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Oddball » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:24 pm

Potato wrote:
Which in no way invalidates that a big label would alleviate much of the problem. :lol:
You put far too much faith in the intelligence of people on the internet.
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Potato
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Potato » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:13 am

Oddball wrote:
Potato wrote:
Which in no way invalidates that a big label would alleviate much of the problem. :lol:
You put far too much faith in the intelligence of people on the internet.
More like I put any faith at all in it, which is far better than the alternative of everyone here just being a bumbling imbecile. We are people on the internet. :P
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Oddball » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:23 am

Potato wrote:
Oddball wrote:
Potato wrote:
Which in no way invalidates that a big label would alleviate much of the problem. :lol:
You put far too much faith in the intelligence of people on the internet.
More like I put any faith at all in it, which is far better than the alternative of everyone here just being a bumbling imbecile. We are people on the internet. :P
Prove it.
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pandaphil
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by pandaphil » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:15 am

The worlds gonna go straight to Hell if we have to keep catering to our dumbest members.
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Re: KS2Android [WORKING Android "port"]

Post by Guest Poster » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:10 am

Which in no way invalidates that a big label would alleviate much of the problem. :lol:
Not really. People aren't gonna use that big label when they talk about it on the internet. 9 out of 10 times people skim through a forum discussion talking about a KS port, they're gonna associate it with 4LS in their minds, because KS and 4LS are connected for many people. It's kind of the same reason why companies generally don't like it when you use names that bear close resemblence to their trademarks, no matter how many big labels you hang up.
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