Hanako's Bad Ending

[cpl_crud]

A little question for you, Crud. I'm not saying tell me what you believe would be canon in your mind and such, but just kind of answer based on what you think would happen.

Let's say that after high school, per usual, a relationship between Hanako and most of her friends ends simply because of moving on in life. As she extends further into her future and ages, do you think she would honestly change much? I mean, there are people who after their final years of schooling who change drastically and ones who don't change at all. Do you think she'd be one of those people who, while keeping old habits such as stuttering, would change a bit in terms of personality? Such as being a bit more open, while not completely open, or do you think she'd sort of continue to be that shut in?

Just a question on your personal opinion, you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

Honestly, I think Hanako has the capacity for change.

Even in the few short months of her path she makes some small, yet significant, changes.

Will she stutter forever? I kind of think so, but that is because I'm mentally trained to think of her stuttering (one of these days I'd like to find out who uses more ellipses; Shizune or Hanako...).

I think everyone goes through a certain evolution, although it's not as fast as most people imagine. You watch a few drama shows and you imagine that as soon as you graduate High School or University that your whole life will change.

I don't think that's true. Puberty is when you start forming your own personal opinion of yourself, and it peaks around the time you finish High School, giving you this feeling of upheaval and a desire to change. But I see that as being akin to taking the training wheels off a bike. Sure, you're away and riding, but you're still unsteady and you are probably not all that good at making the bike go where you want it to go.

Okay, so I'm barely 30, so I can't really talk all that much. But in the last 5 years I've come to realise a lot of things about myself (e.g. just how much of an arse I was) and I've been able to alter (or have had altered by other people) parts of my personality.


Hanako will more than likely go through the same process, although in a massively different way. I see her getting over the emotional and hormonal upheaval of puberty at about 25. Until that time I would think she would grow on a similar trajectory as she does in her path; slow, incremental "socialisation".

But, once she starts working out how to control herself and her emotions, she'll probably start thinking about the future and then working towards that. I've speculated in Runner's Afternoon that by the time she is about 30 that she will be a self-sufficient person. By that time she will have had enough exposure to the outside world to realise that not everyone is going to judge her by her scars.



I suppose I should say one thing about that though; some things don't change, but you learn to cope with them. One of the things that made my put in the anxiety attack was a similar experience that I had in relation to my own phobia (N.B. - I did not explore my own phobia much in Hanako's path, nor will I elaborate).
One thing that I have noted as I have grown older is that I have worked on various coping methods, and 95% of the time I don't even contemplate my fears. However, when presented with said phobia, I still practically shit myself. So I think that, deep down inside Adult Hanako, there will still be certain aversions. I also think that she would be a freaking excellent mum.

[YourFavAnon]

-snip-

This is actually the kind of response I was looking for. I'm going to be honest; the idea that everything and everyone immediately changes after high school is some major bullshit. I've known people who have stayed the exact same after graduation. But, as you sort of said, once those people began to age a bit, more towards their mid twenties and early thirties, they changed in a lot of ways. I'll use my father for an example. Out of high school, he was a guy with no college degree and went straight to the work force. Eventually, picked up a drinking problem that resulted in him at the bar every night from his early twenties to the time he was 38. It may have taken him a longer period of time to realize this than some, but everyone has their little moment of realization at some point in their life. His happened to be when my brother was being born before me, and it was that he needed to grow up and be prepared for his first child.

That being said, I sort of image Hanako to be in the same sort of boat, but with her self-consciousness of her scars and such. I feel like when she would go and hit a certain point in her adulthood, there would be that sort of realization (as you pointed out) where she understands that not everyone is going to just stare at her scars and judge her based on it. Some still will, sure, but that's to be expected. I also agree with you that she would be an absolutely amazing mother. I feel that when she would have that first child that she would just be sort of sitting there, amazed at what she has before her. She is slightly immature, at least that's how I see her, but that's not in the sense that she's childish, just underdeveloped socially. I feel like with that playing into her life, her reaction to holding her child for the very first time would be that sort of Kodak moment on her life.

Thanks for taking the time to respond anyways, I really do appreciate it.

[Pyramid Head]

I've been there.
It was actually damn near a weekly occurrence until i was 16. How my mom reached her current age when she relatively recently calmed down thanks to antidepressants is frankly baffling in hindsight. But yeah, everyone needs a place to keep their stuff where they can catch a breather after putting up with those pesky fuckers called people, and it's hard to not snap when people can't respect the place for your stuff.

[Walrusfella]

I think everyone goes through a certain evolution, although it's not as fast as most people imagine. You watch a few drama shows and you imagine that as soon as you graduate High School or University that your whole life will change.

I don't think that's true. Puberty is when you start forming your own personal opinion of yourself, and it peaks around the time you finish High School, giving you this feeling of upheaval and a desire to change. But I see that as being akin to taking the training wheels off a bike. Sure, you're away and riding, but you're still unsteady and you are probably not all that good at making the bike go where you want it to go.

Okay, so I'm barely 30, so I can't really talk all that much. But in the last 5 years I've come to realise a lot of things about myself (e.g. just how much of an arse I was) and I've been able to alter (or have had altered by other people) parts of my personality.

Hanako will more than likely go through the same process, although in a massively different way. I see her getting over the emotional and hormonal upheaval of puberty at about 25. Until that time I would think she would grow on a similar trajectory as she does in her path; slow, incremental "socialisation".

But, once she starts working out how to control herself and her emotions, she'll probably start thinking about the future and then working towards that. I've speculated in Runner's Afternoon that by the time she is about 30 that she will be a self-sufficient person. By that time she will have had enough exposure to the outside world to realise that not everyone is going to judge her by her scars.

I think you're right. You'll still be the same person after high school, but I think the opportunity to slowly change is greater once you are you're the master of your own life. I'm about the same age; this has been my experience as well. I'm still the same guy, but I've had some of the rough edges ground off and I've excised some of the immaturity (or, like you said, had it excised from me). There's definitely still some work to do, probably always will be. I think Hanako would be alright after school.

I suppose I should say one thing about that though; some things don't change, but you learn to cope with them. One of the things that made my put in the anxiety attack was a similar experience that I had in relation to my own phobia (N.B. - I did not explore my own phobia much in Hanako's path, nor will I elaborate).
One thing that I have noted as I have grown older is that I have worked on various coping methods, and 95% of the time I don't even contemplate my fears. However, when presented with said phobia, I still practically shit myself. So I think that, deep down inside Adult Hanako, there will still be certain aversions. I also think that she would be a freaking excellent mum.

That was a very powerful and upsetting scene, and all the better for it. I thought at the time that the person who wrote it might have personally been through something like that. Thanks for your insight and your hard work on the game.

[sporkaganza]

I think Hanako's bad ending might be one of my favorite "bad endings", just because it's such a slap in the face. And that makes it strangely... refreshing, almost. Somehow I find it borderline cathartic to see Hanako getting that angry.

I'm not sure if I would make it my most favorite, because drinking on the roof with Kenji is funny and Rin's neutral ending is extremely well-done, but it's definitely in the top three.

[ravenlord]

I think Hanako's bad ending might be one of my favorite "bad endings", just because it's such a slap in the face. And that makes it strangely... refreshing, almost. Somehow I find it borderline cathartic to see Hanako getting that angry.

I feel the same way -- that Hanako's "bad" ending may not be so bad after all is said and done.

For the other 4 bad ending, it is pretty much game over without any real hope. The other girls have completely distanced themselves from Hisao either emotionally or physically. Hanako's is the only bad ending that ends with a lot of passion and with both she and Hisao in school with a lot of time left together.

So, she finally breaks down her wall and lets Hisao know exactly what she feels and where they stand. That's actually a lot better than the neutral ending where they are still dancing on eggshells around each other. It gives them a new place to start. And there is still emotional attachment there, much like a lover's quarrel. So there is incentive for them for making up and moving onwards. Plus Lilly will soon be back in the mix. Even though Hanako is angry at her as well, Lilly has the grace and patience to work her way back. They had a fairly stable triad before Lilly's trip, and that's another plus in helping put all of the pieces back together, both friendship-wise for the three of them and romance-wise for Hanako and Hisao.

I like the fact that all 3 of Hanako's endings were shorter that the other girls', because it means there is so much more for the players to fill in for themselves afterwards. I see very few ways for Hisao to recover anything from the other 4 bad endings. But I see a lot of potential and a ton of ways for Hisao (and Lilly) fixing things with Hanako after Hanako's outburst, and making things better.

At the end of the day, her outburst in the good ending is not really all that different from the one in the bad ending. It is the revelation that two people are misunderstanding each other, and in both cases it leaves Hanako basically in a state of shock. But in both cases it finally gives Hisao enough information to make some intelligent decisions. The only question in the bad ending is if Hanako will ever give him that chance to use that new knowledge. And after seeing Hanako bounce back from her other breakdowns, I figure that he will indeed get that chance.

[Nyzer]

Eh, her bad ending is more that Hisao is insulted and shocked by what she's thinking of him - he's turned off of her, not the reverse. So while she might "bounce back", it strongly hints he won't. He knows where he screwed up, but like I've said - her behavior was something to worry about. He deserved to get told off, but he didn't quite deserve it like that, even in the bad ending.

But, yes, I can agree - that bad ending, more than any other, leaves hope behind. I've seen worse fights in weaker friendships, and without an excellent mediator who knows both people very well - and some of those friendships have bounced back. Seen worse fights in romantic relationships, too.

Hanako blew up on him, once, because he failed to respect her wishes and her privacy, once.