Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

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TheStargazer
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Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by TheStargazer » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Hi everyone.
I just finished all the paths in KS, so I want to give some thoughts about the game itself.

It's probably going to be tl;dr for most of you, but I thought: If the authors took so much time to make this game, they at least deserve to receive some in-depth personal experiences and feelings invoked by the game.

This was the first visual novel I ever played, and I came across the game completely by accident. I was listening to Voltaire's song "Cathouse Tragedy" on YouTube when I saw a top-comment "This is Katawa Shoujo's theme song". I was curious so I googled it and finally installed the game. Now, the song itself really has *nothing* to do with the game, and it's IMHO even very rude and in bad taste to connect the two, (because the song's about a brothel with strange sick girls who have various diseases and disabilities). However, it helped me to discover the hame and I found the basic story of the game interesting, and started reading.

Lacking any experience, I actually didn't know what a visual novel was, and I thought that the game is simply a story with nice pictures but I liked it. When I saw the first in-game choice, I realized I could choose my own story. However, I still managed to get manly picnic'd in the first run :lol:

After that I realized I could choose between 5 paths. I wanted to go for Hanako, but I ended up on Emi's path (I "went for it" on the track run). What a story. I really connected with Emi and it's probably the path that caused most of the *feels*. Was it because it was my first path in the game, I don't know. Emi's character is so well-written and it actually reminded me of a girl I knew. Perhaps that's why I connected with her so well. Whoever wrote Emi's path - thank you for this experience. The fact that Emi's so energetic and caring for Hisao makes you really get to love her, and when she said "So are you going to kiss me", it really struck me.

After that, I think the story got even better because it portrayed the new problems that emerged - relationship problems. Now it was not just about getting the girl, it was about keeping the girl and improving the newly created relationship. The game even portrayed how you can get tired of someone when you see them every single day, all the time. And when Emi started to neglect me, I really felt it. Her struggles were really well written and I could feel the tension in the relationship. The conversation with her mother was the peak. I initially got her good ending, which was believable and satisfying. But after that, I wanted to check what happens if I choose the "other" option. Then the bad ending struck me. It was awful. To this day it was the most heart-breaking ending in KS. It wasn't really tragic, such as Rin's neutral ending for instance, but the feel of not seeing this girl on the morning run anymore, not keeping up with the routine, not talking to such an extrovert person was just terrifying. And the final scene (the break-up) was just that, the final blow. Seeing Emi, who cared about Hisao so much and talked to him all the time, being so cold to him now... There was nothing to be done. Even Hisao knew it. This ending was even more believable than the good one, because it just shows how Emi's character is. Sure, Hisao said some dumb stuff when he confronted her in her home, but I somehow knew this was bound to happen. So I still feel this was the "real" Emi ending. After finished Emi's route, I couldn't sleep the whole night. I was even crying. Crying because of a video game, for a fictional character! :?: Tomorrow I read her good ending again to try to cheer myself up but the bad one was still stuck in my head.

Next one was Hanako. This is definitely one of the stronger stories in the game as well, because although I liked Emi so much, I got to appreciate Hanako too. Hanako's slow change of character and her opening up to Hisao was the main reason for the *feels* in this route. The pool scene was probably the peak of her route (when she smiled and said "I'm here for you too"). That was probably the sweetest line in whole KS. Hanako, sweet, fragile and insecure as she is, was a totally different experience than Emi, for instance. In Emi's route, Hisao (and myself) felt like an introvert who constantly needed to be guided (by Emi) and shown the path. With Hanako, I needed to be the one to take the initiative. The cutest scene with Hanako (after the pool scene) has to be the one when she holds her birthday presents, truly happy. I shed a tear in that scene. Now would be a great time to mention the music, which IMO played a huge part in this game. The music is nothing short of brilliant, and without it KS wouldn't have such an emotional impact. Everything was right - the sad scenes music, the cheerful ones, even the silent scenes. Everything was put correctly and had a great impact on my experience.

While I thought Emi's sex scenes were fitting to her character (even the anal scene was fitting because you could feel the awkwardness just as the characters themselves), I thought that Hanako's sex scenes were just off. It surely wasn't believable and I thought it wasn't fitting to Hanako's character. I know it should represent that she was ready to see Hisao as an equal, as a boyfriend instead of a protector, but it felt almost like rape to me. I'd surely like it better without sex there. As for her endings, all of her endings were really well-done, especially the good ending, which was my favorite. Although I didn't really feel that the relationship with Hisao and Hanako was a strong one, and that it could snap any moment, the ending was a fitting end to the story. And the bad/neutral endings made a lot of sense too.

Third one was Rin. Ah... Rin. This route frustrated me so much, but still - gave me so many feels. Rin's crazy and closed nature was hard to swallow at first but it made me really appreciate those rare signs of affection - like when she hugs Hisao by surprise, or when she starts crying all of a sudden. Or when she starts talking like mad, filling the whole screen with text (definitely one of the funniest but also most touching scenes in the game). The scene when Hisao puts her to sleep and she opens one eye was one of the cutest moments in the game. Of course, the "I don't know what is wrong with me" scene was the one that hit me the most. Again, more manly tears were shed. Or maybe they weren't so manly after all. However, I really could understand Hisao when he started to yell at Rin because that was exactly what I'd do. In the final acts Rin put me to so much torture that I was so mad at this point (especially when she said "Wait 15 more minutes", when I went berserk). Great, just great writing. The author made Rin someone you love, but also someone you love to hate.

Her neutral ending was probably the most tragic ending of the game, and I consider it her real, most believable ending. This ending showed Rin as she was. Although her good ending was really cheerful and optimistic, I can't look at Rin this way - in my opinion, she is definitely not a person who can ever have a healthy relationship. No matter what. That's why I couldn't really *feel* her good ending, because I don't think anyone could put up with a person like this. Yes, it's possible to be happy with her for a short period of time, but that's it. It's not something that could last, at least in my opinion. And the sex scenes with Rin were probably the most awkward scenes in the whole game. I couldn't help but feel that Hisao was using her. At some times I even thought of him as a sex maniac, given how strange and passive Rin is. Maybe I felt over-protective, I don't know.

Next was Shizune. Now this might sound weird, but Shizune is probably my favorite girl out of them all, but I feel her path was the worst, because of poor writing. Shizune had a great amount of screen time in Act 1, and had a great set up. Her character, her confidence, her disability, her history, her best friend... everything about this girl was appealing. It felt great "breaking her ice" (although Hisao never got really close to her as he did with other girls) and making her a girlfriend. It was so satisfying to watch this girl go with her life as no other. She was the ultimate bad-ass of the game, yet so fragile when it comes to simple things such as her relationship with her best and only friend, Misha. However, Shizune's story quickly went downhill. First, her father had great potential as a bad-ass masculine father who cares only about himself, but his lines were not believable at all. He seemed to just say random things and it didn't feel fitting to the story at all. It was like a forced comic relief. Also, I thought Hisao was strangely rude to Shizune's brother. But the worst part was definitely the end. Good ending was not actually good at all, because you realize that not only that you aren't in a real relationship with Shizune (she doesn't even respond to Hisao's "I love you"), but everything will be over soon, as school finished. Yes, Hisao says "We will definitely meet again", but that's not very certain after all. The only feeling of closure is the fact that Hisao decided what to do with his life. As for his relationship with Shizune, I tend to think of it just as something that took place in school, and something that will end after they graduate.

And her bad ending was just wrong - I felt as if it was rushed in a way. Hisao cheats her with her best friend and that's never addressed later? That wasn't right. But it somehow led to her bad ending where she distanced from everyone, not even knowing about the horrible sin her boyfriend and best friend committed. Why did she do that then? The ending would actually be believable if she elaborated her thinking with some more detail, and without Hisao acting like a total jerk and leaving the scene "with a strange smile". Her last picture (with the bear Hisao won for her on the festival) was so depressing and could've been the most emotional bad ending in the game, if it wasn't so rushed. Its a pity, because I really think Shizune's character had by far the most potential of them all, and that's why I was so disappointed in the end. Oh, and adding some more choices wouldn't hurt, because the only real decision you made in Shizune's path is whether to comfort Misha or not. So much potential... :( However, as a character, I still adore Shizune.

And in the end... Lily. I can't say I had much of the feels by now. I don't know why - maybe it's because I was drained out with all the other girls' paths or because you don't really need to protect Lily for the most of the game (because she is mostly a mother figure to pretty much everyone she befriends in KS). I liked this route mostly because it probably shows what it's like to be with a "perfect" girlfriend. Before the final act, that is. I'm still not really sure how Hisao's decision of whether to talk about the letter or not makes him go chase Lilly on the airport. I can't see the connection between those two events. I got Lily's neutral ending first because I thought talking about the letter would make her jelaous. Then I talked about the letter and I thought she would change her mind about leaving when she realizes how it's like to lose a person.

But she still left, and Hisao went running for her like a loser begging for her love. It's really not how I think relationships should be. Maybe I'm just being bitter, because I did a similar thing with my ex-girlfriend a year ago. I went all the way from one country to another to chase her and regain her love. And I did. Yet, she never really changed and we broke up, which left me with even bigger wounds. Yes, Hisao and Lily got together in the end, but I can't avoid thinking that she stayed with him out of pity. After all, he had like 3 minor or major heart attacks and it's not certain whether he'll live long with such a dangerous, yet motherly-disguised and insecure girl like Lily. After so many beautiful moments, she decided to leave Hisao, leave Hanako, leave everything she built just to become a teacher in a foreign country, where she doesn't even have good relationships with her family. If she could achieve all that in Japan (if I remember correctly, I she had the same work opportunity in Japan, without having to travel), then why abandon everything? Also, I can't see that being Hisao's fault (although he kept apologizing for "not being there for her" when she needed him), because - although he was a jerk in some of the routes, he (IMO) didn't do many real mistakes with Lily. So, again - her neutral ending was the most believable one for me.

I guess I really went on with this topic, but I felt I had to share my feelings about this game with you, the fans. If you'd like to discuss some of these thoughts, I'd be glad to do so. In the end, thanks to the creators of Katawa Shoujo for letting me experience all this, I am really grateful for that. Also, thanks for introducing me to the VN genre, as I'll surely be checking for more of these games. If you have some recommendations, I'd greatly appreciate them. :)

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Oddball » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:13 pm

I thought that Hanako's sex scenes were just off. It surely wasn't believable and I thought it wasn't fitting to Hanako's character. I know it should represent that she was ready to see Hisao as an equal, as a boyfriend instead of a protector, but it felt almost like rape to me.
I think the problem here is that you're looking at it the wrong way. it's not that she's finally seen Hisao as an equal, it's that she's trying to prove that she's an equal to him.

Since coming out of the room on her birthday, she's watch Hisao spend less and less time with her and thinks that he's just gotten tired of her and wants a girlfriend he can have sex at.

The sex scene is her horribly awkward way to trying to convince Hisao that she can be girlfriend material. It's not like rape, it's more like she's trying to bride him to stay with her using sex. Keep in mind she her horrible self esteem and issues regarding her appearance, I wouldn't be surprised if she was also worrying that the minute she took off hr clothes and exposed her, he was going to get disgusted and leave.

Hisao wasn't taking advantage of her or forcing himself onto her. He was doing exactly what she wanted him to do. They just completely misunderstood what each other was thinking.
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by metalangel » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:15 pm

@The OP: Great post, especially about seeing your new flame too much early on, when you're thrilled to have them and see them but not sure what to do once they're there. Those bits where Hisao announces 'weeks pass during exams' or similar are a bit annoying but if he really doesn't see them then I suppose it's understandable to skip over it.

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Brogurt » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:15 pm

>Immediately jumping on the it was/wasn't rape bandwagon
come on brah

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by ProfAllister » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:02 pm

Just need to point this out with regard to the sexual politics:

Pay attention. Hisao is always the passive party. Each and every sex act is initiated by the girl. In some, they set the stage so he thinks he's taking the initiative, but they put all the pieces in place.

Hanako closed the blinds, locked the door, and stripped her clothes off. Afterward, she explicitly says she did it to offer Hisao sex. Hisao does not rape Hanako.
Rin was caught off guard when Hisao walked in on her, but she is the one who asked Hisao to help her out. In fact, with the possible exception of the oranges, Rin sets up several situations where she seeks intimacy with Hisao by using her lack of arms as an excuse. Hisao does not take advantage of Rin.

Similarly, Hisao does not seduce or force himself on any of the other girls. They initiate, and he responds. You're free to interpret the meaning of any particular scene, but Hisao is universally the pawn, not the mastermind.
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Brogurt » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:48 pm

You funny guy
checkmate.jpg
checkmate.jpg (254.41 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
1330652250745.png
1330652250745.png (1.53 MiB) Viewed 2173 times
Clearly you guys won't be stopped from beating this dead horse so I might as well fan the flames

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by ProfAllister » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Brogurt wrote:You funny guy
checkmate.jpg
1330652250745.png
Clearly you guys won't be stopped from beating this dead horse so I might as well fan the flames
I'm all for having an intelligent discussion about the sexual politics at play in the various arcs. So I'll take your quasi-trolling picture and actually present answers:

Hanako goes on about equivalent exchange so much she practically has automail. But it's not for her sake. She could care less about who owes what to who. If she claims to understand the world in a sense of economic excahnge, she exerts a passive-aggressive control over others. She pays off her debts as quickly as possible - if she owes something to another, she has no value. If someone owes something to her, they're obligated to repay the favor, especially seeing as she repays her own debts so quickly. So, during the sex scene, she doesn't want to have sex - she's terrified. But she has chosen to go through with it, to bind Hisao to her. Besides, she'd want there to be no clear granting of consent - imagine the power you'd have over someone if you can argue they raped you.

Admittedly, that potentially turns Hanako into such a chessmaster that the entire "good" ending is her successfully enslaving Hisao through emotional manipulation...

Yeah, the Shizune bit is a little rape-ey. I never said the sex scenes were wholesome. Most of them are in fact downright unhealthy. Strictly speaking, I was only arguing that Hisao wasn't taking advantage of the girls. I never said it was mutual. Other people are welcome to defend this scene. I do believe it can be done.

Emi's the most obvious example of using sex to control Hisao. As long as she can control discussion with sexytimes, she doesn't have to bother with any emotional connection.

Not sure where you're getting the grey area of consent for Lilly. Virgins are nervous about sex. I must be missing something here.

Rin falls more or less right were I already claimed for her.

Misha's motivations have been the subject of all sorts of debate. Both parties think they want it, immediately regret it, then coldly go through the motions, ashamed of the possibility that they might enjoy it.

And we already covered Hanako.
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by TheStargazer » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:09 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense. And you made the game more enjoyable to me, so I really appreciate it.
Since coming out of the room on her birthday, she's watch Hisao spend less and less time with her and thinks that he's just gotten tired of her and wants a girlfriend he can have sex at.
Yes. It also explains why you can't get her good ending if you choose to ditch her right after Lily's gone and go home instead of going to town. It's clear she wants Hisao to want to be with her even if he doesn't have to, even if there's no Lily in-between. However, I'm still not completely used to the fact that sex comes kind of too soon in KS. Call me conservative but I'd wait at least for a month before having sex with a girlfriend. In KS, in some routes they have sex even before they kiss and start a real relationship (like Hanako).
@The OP: Great post, especially about seeing your new flame too much early on, when you're thrilled to have them and see them but not sure what to do once they're there. Those bits where Hisao announces 'weeks pass during exams' or similar are a bit annoying but if he really doesn't see them then I suppose it's understandable to skip over it.
Thanks. I suppose you are talking about Emi. It's exactly like that... I was waiting and waiting to get Emi and when they kissed, I felt like "now what"? And the game reflected just that. After all, they are high school children and there's not much to do besides hanging out in and around school. So yeah, the game shows that really well. If I remember correctly, there's a scene where Emi says something like "We are in a relationship but this date feels like any other time we went out. We need to make it a real date". Her honesty really affected me, and that's the reason I like her character so much.
Hanako closed the blinds, locked the door, and stripped her clothes off. Afterward, she explicitly says she did it to offer Hisao sex. Hisao does not rape Hanako.
You got me right there. Great observation - I completely forgot about locking the door. It makes much more sense now. Although you could say that she locked the door because she was incredibly shy and didn't want anyone to see her scars, your argument is spot on. Thanks. However, I wouldn't go as far as calling Hanako the chessmaster and manipulator who enslaves Hisao. I think of her as a physically and emotionally scarred girl who just seeks someone to understand her and love her for what she is. The fact that the teacher (and most of the class) pretty much ignored her like she didn't exist just made her more closed and frightened.
Rin was caught off guard when Hisao walked in on her, but she is the one who asked Hisao to help her out. In fact, with the possible exception of the oranges, Rin sets up several situations where she seeks intimacy with Hisao by using her lack of arms as an excuse. Hisao does not take advantage of Rin.
Well, it's hard to tell. In the last scene (when she tells him "go closer") there's no argument - she clearly wants to have sex with him. But in the previous scenes, you never really know what's in Rin's head. When hisao brought her to her room, she kissed him by surprise and even said she probably won't remember that tomorrow. And she didn't. In most of her scenes she is in a weird, distant state (especially when she goes to paint for the exibition). And as she started smoking she was even more weird and "in her own world", confused, vunerable and exposed. Or she just didn't care. In the scene where Hisao puts her to sleep, she says something like "You go now. I want' to sleep. Or you are the type who wants to watch girls sleep? Stay if you want".
Emi's the most obvious example of using sex to control Hisao. As long as she can control discussion with sexytimes, she doesn't have to bother with any emotional connection.
I completely agree with this. It seems like it's a lot easier to engage a sexual, rather than emotional connection, which is kinda weird for me given that this is a high school after all. But I guess those "adolescent sex drives" couldn't be ignored after all. :)
Yeah, the Shizune bit is a little rape-ey. I never said the sex scenes were wholesome. Most of them are in fact downright unhealthy. Strictly speaking, I was only arguing that Hisao wasn't taking advantage of the girls. I never said it was mutual. Other people are welcome to defend this scene. I do believe it can be done.
I thought that Shizune's sex scenes were completely in her character. That would be what I'd expect from her, to be controlling, somewhat kinky and willing to take the risk.
Misha's motivations have been the subject of all sorts of debate. Both parties think they want it, immediately regret it, then coldly go through the motions, ashamed of the possibility that they might enjoy it.
I thought Misha wanted to have sex with Hisao because she loved Shizune so much that she deliberately wanted her to find out, thus destroying her relationship with Hisao. Well the break-up actually did happen, but not for the same reasons, which I found weird, and that's one of the reasons I think Shizune's both endings could've been done much better...

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Pyramid Head » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:37 am

I'm responding to the Stargazer's second post but since it was a decent sized one and i'm not replying to everything, i won't use the quote function.

Hanako's sex scene i kind of liked.
Not as in i thought it was hot, but it hammered home the idea that both of them were badly misreading the situation and were pulling each other in the wrong directions because they never talked directly about how they felt.
Oh also the teacher ignoring her thing was something i need to address. Hanako has a strong social phobia and didn't mind that people ignored her, it was when the class was giving her too much attention that she panicked. The teacher wasn't necessarily ignoring her, he just let her study in a way that worked for her since later on he does admit that her grades and scores are fine even though she doesn't do group work.


Rin's scenes are a little hard to pin down for most but the big thing about Rin and Hisao's relationship is that Rin had trouble expressing what she wanted even to herself, and emotional connections are hard to form when you don't know what the fuck a person is saying. I feel Hisao could have handled it better but if my Hanako advice didn't tip you off i'm actually used to dealing with the mentally not-quite-well, and think Hisao could have handled the Rin situation better. That said the final scene kind of served to show that even though they had problems getting one another they still wanted to get close, sometimes physical intimacy is easier to pull off than emotional intimacy. If your experience of drama comes from Twilight, you might not know that because neither is on display in that schlock.

And lastly i wish to address the Shizune and Misha thing. I keep forgetting to get confirmation from Aura or silentcook on this but supposedly a member of the writing staff who was handling the Shizune arc left before it was finished and they pretty much did patchwork on that arc rather than dropping it or starting the progress over. It's possible they had plans for Misha's sexuality to play a bigger role or even have an alternate ending where Misha did actively pursue Shizune and got her to explicitly acknowledge it and turn her down or accept Hisao openly, but in the end it was only half finished so i can't say for sure.
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by ProfAllister » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:00 am

Pyramid Head wrote:And lastly i wish to address the Shizune and Misha thing. I keep forgetting to get confirmation from Aura or silentcook on this but supposedly a member of the writing staff who was handling the Shizune arc left before it was finished and they pretty much did patchwork on that arc rather than dropping it or starting the progress over. It's possible they had plans for Misha's sexuality to play a bigger role or even have an alternate ending where Misha did actively pursue Shizune and got her to explicitly acknowledge it and turn her down or accept Hisao openly, but in the end it was only half finished so i can't say for sure.
Actually, if I remember from the "Ask" thread, Aura specifically called that theory out as bullshit. I am under the impression that A22 wrote the entire Shizune arc, and it's more or less how he wanted it. To my knowledge, the only writer who stopped halfway was Cpl_Crud, and that was for Hanako's arc, with Suriko taking over. Yet no one complains about issues with Hanako's arc like they do with Shizune's. I'd argue that Shizune's arc is difficult, but complete. Easier to claim it's incomplete than admit you don't understand what's going on...
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Pyramid Head » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:18 am

ProfAllister wrote:
Pyramid Head wrote:And lastly i wish to address the Shizune and Misha thing. I keep forgetting to get confirmation from Aura or silentcook on this but supposedly a member of the writing staff who was handling the Shizune arc left before it was finished and they pretty much did patchwork on that arc rather than dropping it or starting the progress over. It's possible they had plans for Misha's sexuality to play a bigger role or even have an alternate ending where Misha did actively pursue Shizune and got her to explicitly acknowledge it and turn her down or accept Hisao openly, but in the end it was only half finished so i can't say for sure.
Actually, if I remember from the "Ask" thread, Aura specifically called that theory out as bullshit. I am under the impression that A22 wrote the entire Shizune arc, and it's more or less how he wanted it. To my knowledge, the only writer who stopped halfway was Cpl_Crud, and that was for Hanako's arc, with Suriko taking over. Yet no one complains about issues with Hanako's arc like they do with Shizune's. I'd argue that Shizune's arc is difficult, but complete. Easier to claim it's incomplete than admit you don't understand what's going on...
That actually does make sense with one portion, but at the same time it seems as though they knew which way they wanted the Hanako arc to go. Even if the claim that the Shizune arc lost a staff member is false though, your accusation that i just don't understand what's going on knocks more of denial than criticism. That arc does have problems, there's a difference between being complicated and being poorly structured.
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by JoshuaJSlone » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:49 am

ProfAllister wrote:Hanako goes on about equivalent exchange so much she practically has automail.
:lol: I'm afraid it wouldn't be very flattering. Rewatching FMA recently, this reminded me of Hanako.

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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by ProfAllister » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:
ProfAllister wrote:Actually, if I remember from the "Ask" thread, Aura specifically called that theory out as bullshit. I am under the impression that A22 wrote the entire Shizune arc, and it's more or less how he wanted it. To my knowledge, the only writer who stopped halfway was Cpl_Crud, and that was for Hanako's arc, with Suriko taking over. Yet no one complains about issues with Hanako's arc like they do with Shizune's. I'd argue that Shizune's arc is difficult, but complete. Easier to claim it's incomplete than admit you don't understand what's going on...
That actually does make sense with one portion, but at the same time it seems as though they knew which way they wanted the Hanako arc to go. Even if the claim that the Shizune arc lost a staff member is false though, your accusation that i just don't understand what's going on knocks more of denial than criticism. That arc does have problems, there's a difference between being complicated and being poorly structured.
Wasn't accusing you particularly of not understanding - more that that rumor spread because it made the most sense that, if any route was rewritten halfway through, it would be Shizune's. In a way, her route challenges the reader in ways that the others don't. I'll readily admit that it might have structural problems, but that's not something that can be discussed in generalities. Care to elaborate?
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Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by Pyramid Head » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:19 pm

ProfAllister wrote:
Pyramid Head wrote:
ProfAllister wrote:Actually, if I remember from the "Ask" thread, Aura specifically called that theory out as bullshit. I am under the impression that A22 wrote the entire Shizune arc, and it's more or less how he wanted it. To my knowledge, the only writer who stopped halfway was Cpl_Crud, and that was for Hanako's arc, with Suriko taking over. Yet no one complains about issues with Hanako's arc like they do with Shizune's. I'd argue that Shizune's arc is difficult, but complete. Easier to claim it's incomplete than admit you don't understand what's going on...
That actually does make sense with one portion, but at the same time it seems as though they knew which way they wanted the Hanako arc to go. Even if the claim that the Shizune arc lost a staff member is false though, your accusation that i just don't understand what's going on knocks more of denial than criticism. That arc does have problems, there's a difference between being complicated and being poorly structured.
Wasn't accusing you particularly of not understanding - more that that rumor spread because it made the most sense that, if any route was rewritten halfway through, it would be Shizune's. In a way, her route challenges the reader in ways that the others don't. I'll readily admit that it might have structural problems, but that's not something that can be discussed in generalities. Care to elaborate?
At this particular point in time?
No. That was the other thing about the Shizune arc, it was the least memorable and i'm currently working on the Hanako and Lilly arcs. I may get back to you on that but for now i'm just clinging to what little i can remember about the Shizune arc.
It was almost all negative stuff tying to how much i wanted Kenji and Jigoro to die.
The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh.

random

Re: Just finished the game... (major spoilers)

Post by random » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:33 pm

http://radkliler.wakarimasenlol.com/wp- ... _smile.jpg

This is clearly the look of a just raped victim

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